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Counseling was the most surreal experience. WHl reinvented our entire marriage. According to him, we had zero intimacy, bickered all the time, and had terrible communication. He apparently tried to foster communication with me, but I didn't cooperate. He tried to foster intimacy, but I rejected him.

The way he described things, I could not help but wonder - if he really felt that way, why would he want to save our marriage at all? Didn't seem like something worth saving - seemed like something he was dying to find a way to get out of ...

Part of me just believes this is part of blaming me for his actions. That hasn't stopped the searing agony it has left me in. Intellectually, I guess I knew he would try to blame me, but ... casting me as a frigid, rejecting, argumentative wife? That wrecked me. I am reeling in disbelief.

I actually asked him, "why did you choose to go online to meet married women, instead of trying to foster intimacy with me, if it was missing and was what you needed?" He responded, "I tried, you always rejected me". I never rejected him. But, it seems, his online antics are all my fault.

The cherry on the cake was when he started talking about his faith. About how he hated "Book Of Mormon", the musical (first I heard). About how moved he was by the miniseries "The Bible". And, according to him, he could not share his faith with me ... he was afraid to, he says.

So, I guess I am not the good, adoring wife I once believed I was. Instead, I am a cold, frigid, argumentative, godless wretch who should understand why any man, naturally, would turn outside for their needs.

I can't believe this is my life.

I already lost my husband, and all the dreams tied to that - but now I've lost the last 11 years of my life, my sanity, and probably any hope of sleep, too.

[This message edited by erzulie at 12:44 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

So sorry for the pain you are in.

Its standard MO for unremorseful waywards, straight out of the playbook - pure blameshifting, gaslighting, crazy making stuff. Its not true or accurate. Don't fall for it.

Try and be gentle with yourself through this phase.

((hugs))

Yep, all the remorseless ones do this. It's all your fault erzulie. I was blamed for everything wrong in my marriage. He re-wrote our marriage to sound like 8 years of pure hell. How strange that I never considered it to be like that.

I agree that you need to be gentle on yourself. In time, you will realize that you did not cause him to have an A. We all have responsibility for issues in our marriage, but no matter what they are, they are not an excuse for having an A. Having an A is a coward's way of dealing with things.

Yes - they all do this. IMHO they do it for a while before their affairs.

It makes sense when you think of it - how else would you even get close to convincing yourself that cheating was OK? You demonise your BS.

The sad clown told me I was a shit wife because I didn't cook or drive. When I asked if OWUgly Indian cooked or drove can you guess what the answer was?

A big fat no. It was the first big belly laugh I had post-DD. I saw at that moment how very fucked up his thinking was.

Something I've seen posted here that gave me comfort when I was where you are now is that nothing he says, no amount of revising he does nor how much of a lie he was living, none of it changes the love that I gave, the wife, supporter, cheer squad I was. NONE.

They compartmentalise to justify their cheating in the same way we compartmentalise their cheating and unremorseful actions to tell ourselves we can make them wake up.

It won't always hurt this bad. I thought I would be in that pain forever - truth is once I had been hurt enough, had hurt myself enough I found the strength to go complete NC and start focusing on my future and my girls future.

But I needed quite a bit of this fucked-up painful stuff to get to that point.

((erzulie))

I will ask the same question NIK asked in your other thread - why on EARTH are you going to counseling? It pains me to read the agony you are in, and that you're subjecting yourself to his bullshit gaslighting. You are one of the smartest people I know! Fuck him and that bullshit.

(sorry)

Well, you can believe this NPD bullshit or hear your own truths.

The choice is yours.

Like nik and SSM said - why are you doing this to yourself? All you are really doing is giving him a platform to spout and an opportunity to hurt you more - which I hope you realize is his real intent.

Screw that.

Bitch panties time, hon.

Spend the money on a lawyer.

AJ's MOM

but now I've lost the last 11 years of my life

erzulie, no you haven't. Don't let him decide what kind of wife you were or what the marriage was like!

So, I guess I am not the good, adoring wife I once believed I was.

Of course you were a good, adoring, supportive, approachable, warm, kind wife! Don't lose touch with reality just because he's a master of denial and revision.

FTG and his delusions.

Erzulie,

You are probably solely responsible for homelessness, global warming, starving children and malaria too. Well, as likely to be solely responsible for those as that line of garbage your STBX is trying to feed you.

Please stop listening, find joy in the happy memories of the past, look to a joyous future with you! A person who is kind, sweet, loving and loyal and has wonderful dogs that know the true you.

FTG

This is how they roll! In the beginning, I felt just like you! I started questioning myself...like where the heck was I all these years? It doesn't even sound like the same marriage. All of our friends and family were shocked. Everyone thought we were a really solid couple. We had regular married long time little kids working stupid stuff like everyone, but no real conflict.

When he dropped his bomb of LTA out of nowhere....He was throwing all kinds of crap at the wall to see what would stick:

"I love you. I love both of you and want to have you both"

"there were some things about our relationship that I didn't like"

"I wasn't happy for the last 5 years"

"You didn't desire me physically"

"You treated me like a servant"

"You were a dictator"

"You settled for me"

"I stopped being attracted to you because you stopped being attracted to me"

"I was convinced you didn't really love me but I was too weak to do anything about it and I was such a poor communicator I couldn't talk to you about it"

"I can't help it, I just fell in love"

"I think I will have more personal growth in this other relationship, the dynamic is totally different"

"You never seemed satisfied with the sex, you only liked x y z specific sex thing vs ab c specific sex thing"

I know it is sooooo hard to hear in the beginning but just picture him as a little boy who did something wrong and is coming up with all these stupid reasons why he isn't really to blame. Or think of him like a stray dog backed into a corner just lashing out at anyone, defending his position.

It feels so weird to think this can be your life. I still wake up every at 4 am every am with the same nightmare....but it is strangly comforting and sad at the same time to know that this crap happens all the time to good people like you and me and the others and the offenders are all the same. They are not unique. They are not creative. Their behavior is pretty standard.

My ex was completely remorseless and tried to say that I pushed him away-sure!!

He wouldn't even sit beside me on the sofa saying it was no good for his back. Yet, when I wasn't sitting there he was happy to sit there.

I've decided now that we are S that I too can rewrite history. Our relationship was shit, he was never man enough to treat me like the person I deserved to be and he always put his needs first.

Shame this IS the truth though.

It sucks. It really, truly sucks. Don't let his revision invalidate what YOU know to be true. My ex tried (and is still trying) the same nonsense. He told me that we are divorcing because "somehow we couldn't communicate" and told me that it was not because of his cheating. In his world if he says so, it's true. He can tell himself whatever he likes. I was married to a man who from day one was a poor communicator. If I was going to divorce him for that I would have done that a LONG time ago. I learned to adapt to that (although in hindsight I shouldn't have). I'm divorcing a CHEATER who does so without remorse because no one can live a good life with a person who has no conscience and transient morals.

His delusions are his to keep but I know without a doubt that his warped and disordered view of reality is not real. You spent 11 years being a good woman and a good wife. Nothing he says can change the truth and the truth is that he lost something that he never deserved in the first place and so did you. He didn't deserve a devoted spouse that shows him the love he doesn't even have for himself and you didn't deserve a lying and cheating POS.

So, I guess I am not the good, adoring wife I once believed I was. Instead, I am a cold, frigid, argumentative, godless wretch who should understand why any man, naturally, would turn outside for their needs.

Just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel....but anyone who knows you and knows what kind of wife you were knows the truth. Surround yourself with those close to you who know the truth. They will help remind you if you start to believe the bullshit.

They all have to say SOMETHING to cleanse themselves of the shitty life decisions they have made and to justify their actions. Mine did the same thing...I stopped worrying about what he thought of me and what he was telling people when I realized that it was just going to make me crazy.

Its standard MO for unremorseful waywards, straight out of the playbook - pure blameshifting, gaslighting, crazy making stuff. Its not true or accurate. Don't fall for it.

^^THIS^^

Let's just try to run his logic through the bullshit translator. Hmmmmmm - no intimacy with you, so he tries to find it in meaningless sex with strangers? Puhleeeeeeeeze. That doesn't even make sense! INTIMACY is the sharing of not only our bodies, but our hearts. His logic is total BS. There is nothing "intimate" about sex with married strangers.

This is standard blameshifting from a WS that can't face what he has done, so he's trying to make the lamest of all lame excuses to somehow make you responsible. Don't you take one iota of the blame. This is HIS character flaw to own, not yours.

Like nik and SSM said - why are you doing this to yourself? All you are really doing is giving him a platform to spout and an opportunity to hurt you more - which I hope you realize is his real intent.

Screw that.

Bitch panties time, hon.

Spend the money on a lawyer.

Oh and ^^THIS^^ absolutely. 100%

Next time, put him on the spot in front of the mc when he defers to this excuse:

He responded, "I tried, you always rejected me". I never rejected him. But, it seems, his online antics are all my fault.

Ask him to name five specific occasions when he "tried" and what he specifically did in his attempt to "try." Guarantee he can't think quick on his feet and it will be the last time he pulls that $hit.

When he no doubt tells you he can't think of any specific occasions off the top of his head, say, "then clearly you weren't trying very hard."

The re-authoring of the entire marital experience is standard.

Most therapists will tell you that the words "always" or "never" are ones that raise red flags to them because no one is "always" or "never" and the person using those words is already lying.

You see, the issue is purely this: you were NOT in the same marriage. He had a whole room full of nasty issues that he kept from you. How could you be in the same marriage when he had the complete picture and you had half the puzzle pieces and no picture on the box to tell you what it was supposed to look like?

I agree with the others: counseling is only his stage to pontificate on what he felt was lacking in the marriage. You don't need that. Save the money and hire the meanest, smartest, savviest shark-in-a-suit you can find. Trust me--all of this nicey-nice talk will go out the window once he figures out what he stands to lose. You need to be prepare for that. I am not advocating being nasty from the get-go. But be prepared. It is likely to come.

Cat

So, I guess I am not the good, adoring wife I once believed I was. Instead, I am a cold, frigid, argumentative, godless wretch who should understand why any man, naturally, would turn outside for their needs.

Yes, me too. STBX told the parenting evaluator all of these things and has expanded the story to say I'm physically abusive, TOO religious (repressed and frigid), and that I drink as much as him (like, I don't know, ten alcoholic drinks a day). There's more, but I'm reeling and too exhausted to repeat it all. It's humiliating.

I agree with Cat. You need the best attorney you can find. Even MY insane STBX didn't really start these sorts of accusations until we were in the middle of the divorce. The accusations have gotten progressively worse. So I'm a little scared for you.

(((Erzulie)))

I'm sorry, sweetie. I know how much it hurts to hear shit like this. I looked at then-wh one time in total bewilderment after a similar conversation and said, "but other people like me." Because to hear him list my faults made me feel like I was this horrible monster that nobody should like.

Later on, after he left and I had time to think instead of constantly reacting to him, I realized that that moment was actually a defining moment for me. It was the beginning of me realizing that my view of myself was so tightly wrapped around now-ex's perspective of me that I couldn't see myself the way other people (friends, acquaintances, and even strangers) saw me. And that ex was and is a liar, so why should his opinion of me matter more to me than my opinion of myself?

Look, just because he's saying it's his reality doesn't make it your reality, or history. Or even the truth. Don't let the lies of a liar make you feel bad about yourself. As we're fond of saying down here in D/S - FTG!

(((erzulie)))

I'm so sorry for your pain. I agree with the others who've posted that counseling seems like a waste of time, money, and your precious energy. Sitting there lying his ass off costs him nothing emotionally, but having to listen to it will drain the life right out of you. Don't give him that opportunity anymore!!

I've lost.... my sanity

I totally get the rest, the hopes and dreams you had for your marriage, the years you invested, but he can only have THIS ^^^^ if you let him. DON'T LET HIM. Whatever so-called "reality" he's spouting off to the counselor, you know damn well what your marriage was like. And somewhere deep down, in the tiny shred of a soul he has left, he knows it too. But he's too weak and cowardly to face it. I firmly believe that all cheaters are cowards at heart.

It's so much easier for him (and that's all that matters, right?) to fling the shit at you than to own up to the stinky mess he's made. The best and really only thing you can do, is stop being a target.

((hugs)) to you!

Hang in there.