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I just need some sense beat into me. I am pretty sure she has all but decided it is over. No intimacy, almost zero affection, nothing but fighting over the dumbest crap. She thinks everything is about her A and nothing I say can change her mind. She is constantly yelling " I know..i know, nothing is ever good enough", " you are so perfect you never do anything wrong", "you think you can say anything you want and because I had an affair I have to take it", "it's been three years, when will it ever stop", "when is enough enough".

I know at times I have been nasty, I haven't been the easiest person to live with after this crap. I tried explaining that sometimes I am grumpy because I have chronic pain and I hurt, i don't sleep well, i have a bad dream because i get scared that her hiding her feelings and denying me basic attention and affection, I feel rejected because she doesn't show any intimacy or very little affection (meaningless pecks on the lips and an empty "love ya" doesn't mean anything anymore. I really think its just a habit and means nothing. I am not special to her, I am torturing myself wanting her, wanting to be with her, I still love her and I have hope but I think I am the only one. I asked her after the "its been three years" question if it was fair to suggest a time limit, she had an issue with an uncle as a young girl and she still has issues with that now from time to time, i told her that it had been 30 years and it was still an issue at times, she told me that it doesnt consume her every thought, I told her the A doesnt consume my every thought. I told her I didn't think it was fair to place a limit on a traumatic event for me when she had been dealing with the fallout of a traumatic event for all this time. She told me she could never be convinced that all of my issues are not directly related to her A for me. We have MC tomorrow and I bet this is going to be interesting.

Ok let em fly, I don't want to give up, I want to get through this, help her not be angry at everything, have her help me heal. I want to be with her but I can't be the only one that wants it to work...

Broken....no 2x4s here. Wondering if you have been in IC yourself . For me it was what helped work through my emotions and my IC helped me to figure out how to ask for what I need from my WH. We have not been able to attend MC but I have Been able to ask in a calm and selfless manner for the things that will help me feel loved and safe in this marriage. I would also suggest that your WW get IC as well. She can have a safe place to express her frustrations with you and an IC might just set her straight.

I have seen members post about how they roll play with their IC and then are prepared to ask for what the need at their MC sessions.

Good luck

[This message edited by emotionalgirl at 10:30 PM, September 30th (Monday)]

She has been to IC, her IC told her it was ok to go stay with a friend or her sister overnight if an argument was too heated. I disapproved of telling a WW to go stay with a friend if she didn't want to argue...

We used my counseling benefit for MC, I don't have any real friends anymore. I lost what few contacts I had after d-day, turned inward afraid to let anyone know. She screamed at me today that it was my fault that I had nobody to talk to.

I guess part of this is that it is almost the three yrs antiversary of d-day (10/10). There are just so many issues right now, I feel alone. I have no support system and I feel like all I do is cry lately and I feel like when I cry she just gets angrier. I am lonely. She says all she wants is to just be left alone. I can't eat, as you can see from the post time it's 2 am and I am not asleep, have to be in class in a few hours... I almost feel like I did during d day, I am a wreck emotionally and it is causing even more physical problems, all of that compounds to make me grumpy which just sets her off even more....

Dude. Seriously. Are you going to live in this *land of limbo* forever???? I know, and YOU know, that your WW has never shown a single shred of remorse. Not one.

It's been long enough that you now have 2 options:

1) mind-wipe all that has *come before* and start anew; OR

2) take steps to start separating your shit.

#1 is a really bad option. AND so is #2. The good thing about #2, though, is that you are no longer dealing with continuing to be emotionally damaged (and trust me, that damage is happening every time she spews her *get over it already* bullshit on you) by the mind-fuck.

To be totally honest with you, BFM, as much as it sucks that my life is NOT panning out the way that I had envisioned it (mom, dad, kids --> together forever).....it is SO freaking AWESOME to NOT have to deal with a spouse that is constantly acting like *I'm* a freak for being pissed off and upset because that spouse couldn't be bothered to be faithful and thinks that being unfaithful is *no big deal* and should just be brushed off.

You're not going to be able to help her *not* be angry at everything.....and it has now been long enough, that if she was going to *help* you heal, she would have been doing that.

She should be making you feel special, BFM. She owes you *that*, at the very least.....and she can't even do that much for you.

Having had my say.....the bottom line is that you aren't ready to cry *uncle* yet. So what do you need/want from your WW in order to continue in the marriage? And you've been dealing with her for long enough that you can make an *ideal* list and a *real* list. Make BOTH lists. Determine what would be *ideal* for you and then look at what she is *realistically* giving you.

Do not hang your hat on the *ideal*.....look at what you are dealing with TODAY.....and decide whether or not what you are dealing with today is what you want to deal with forever.....

We cross-posted...and I just saw your last post.

You need some serious triage. Because the longer this goes on, the WORSE it will be for you. Trust me, as a person who dealt with protracted bullshit from an unremorseful spouse.....the longer that it goes on -- the more the WS looks *sane* and YOU look like a psycho.

Attempt to begin detaching from your WW. Rekindle your friendships. If those people were *true* friends, they will accept the "some really bad shit was happening and I just couldn't deal with anybody" explanation. You will (most likely) be amazed at the support that you will get when you actually start reaching out to people again.

If all your WW wants is to be left alone...then maybe you should oblige her. Have you considered a controlled separation?

Also, if you can find a chronic pain group that can be a real boon PLUS it can gain you friends that can really 'get' what chronic pain/fatigue is like. It gets you out of the house and helps you feel heard and not so isolated. Best wishes.

Okay, since you asked for a 2x4, you are going to get one.

Three years? You are still holding out hope one day she's going to wake up and feel like being all intimate the way she has not been in years? (And then you won't have to feel resentful and angry because she gives you zero intimacy and affection, because on this day she will wake up and just be a different person, the person you want her to be).

You want her to "help you heal?" Even in the best of situations with an extremely remorseful spouse, I believe that most of the healing actually has to be done by the person him/herself. I R'd with my current H and D'ed my XH. I feel I healed quickly, compared to most, in both situations, but it had to do with my own attitude and actions, not what they did. What they did just made my decision to either R or D easier. (Current H was/is remorseful, XH was not nearly remorseful enough nor did I have reason to believe he would not do it again).

You can't depend on somebody outside yourself to heal you.

If you stay married to her, part of your healing is going to mean what Gonnabe2016 said:

1) mind-wipe all that has *come before* and start anew;

Your WW says your anger and bringing up the A have something to do with HER attitude and she could be right. This is not defending her but she knows deep down she is not going to "change" and is who she is, and if you don't love her cold, unaffectionate, unremorseful self, just the way she is, then you are angry and never going to get over it...so the state of your M is yes, partly or even mostly your fault, in her eyes. Does that sound like somebody who is going to decide in the near future that she needs to "Help you heal?"

Here is the worst 2x4 of all. I think many here want to say "that's okay, cry as much as you want, for as long as you want." But in front of her, I would think that is going to appear desperate and pathetic after three years. Desperation is not often really an appealing quality to an unremorseful WW like your wife.

I'm really not usually a huge fan of the 180 and think it is highly overprescribed on this forum, but it sounds like you might benefit from at least some of the concepts from it. You need to show her a strong front, not a weak front. You need to show her that you are just fine and that you have a life (and friends) with or without her. More importantly, you have to work on making that a reality for yourself, not just a show.

I'm actually saying yes it is time for you to move forward. And really your choices in this are exactly as Gonnabe said, either convince yourself nothing is wrong in the M, and do your best to just be the same H you were to her before you knew about the A, or starting making preparations to end this M. Either way, it is past time for you to realize she is not going to change and "help you heal."

And you are not likely going to change to see her as "just fine" the way she is, either so you are at an impass. You can't change anybody but yourself. And you don't like the changes you must make nor does it seem that you are accepting the two choices that you have. You are still holding out hope for something that I do see as very close to impossible. I have seen plenty settle for a M like yours and move on from there, finding other interests in life to make life more bearable, and that is a choice you have, but not the one I would make. Still it is up to you.

I agree with Gonnabe. It is time that you either man up and quit being pathetic or seperate. If after 3yrs you are still a mess and your marriage is still a mess then what you have both been doing for 3yrs is not working. If she has shown no remorse for 3yrs then she isn't going to magically start doing it now. You are either going to have to decide to accept her as she is or to D her. I know neither is what you want, both those are your options. You are going to have to heal yourself and being a pathetic victim is not the way to go about it. It is not attractive to see anyone feel this sorry for themselves. I am sorry for the 2X4 or maybe it was an 8x6, but it sounds like you need one or maybe a few to get you out of this funk. (((HUGS)))

Reread gonnabe2016's post several times.

I was you for 2 years minus the chronic pain. It gets better once YOU decide to make it better for YOU. Yes it will suck ass in the beginning but think about it, your situation sucks ass right now. At least you can start to move forward by working on yourself. IMO you should start up the 180 immediately and detach. Reach out to those friends you think you lost years ago and tell them what happened. Go out and make some new friends. Start living your life again WITHOUT your WW. The goal is to detach and begin moving forward with your life even if you aren't ready to actually file yet. Detaching and taking back control of your life will help you to see things clearer. Make a list of things you want or need to do and get started on them. Put big things and small things on teh list and do something every day WITHOUT your WS. There will likely be several false starts but you have to detach from your WW.

Take your focus off your WW and put it 1000% on yourself. A side effect of the 180 is your WW may wonder why you are no longer chasing her around begging and pleading and she may actually reach out to you. That is a side effect of the 180. IGNORE it if it happens and keep focusing on you. If she truly is going to change she is going to have to do it on HER OWN. You can't control her the only thing you can control is yourself. I wish you the best keep posting and if you haven't check out the Betrayed Men thread in the I can relate forum. Post in their as well. Lots of support from guys that have BTDT.

IDK...you seem to be pretty good at beating yourself up wit no effect, so what good will 2 X 4s from someone else do.

I'm really sorry you're putting yourself through this, bfm.

Stop accepting this. Do the 180. Get yourself help.

All I'm gonna say Fairyman, , is I think this is pretty much the same post from two years ago. Nothing has changed.

The only thing you can change is yourself.

aside from loving her, why do you want to reconcile with this person?

^^ and to follow along that path..aside from wanting to R with this person,what do you love about her?