SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Download spyware onto the phone and put a keylogger on her computer..don't tell her.

She's hiding something.

180. How do I know I'm doing it right but not being a jerk? Like we were out of towels this morning. So I grabbed two from the dryer. Was that wrong?

I did give myself a haircut which is something I normally ask her to do. Slipped and had to trim my beard too but worth it I think.

Just keep going between feeling pretty good to I'm gonna barf. Tuesday and the therapist aren't going to come fast enough.

So I keep thinking about her not getting any texts from him. Now I'm guessing it's because she is deleting them before I can see them or told him to not to send anything or she is deleting them before i can see them. The other thing is that before this week there was a five month gap.

180. How do I know I'm doing it right but not being a jerk?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

Unless you are intentionally being a jerk, I doubt if you will come off as being a jerk in any way..

The 180 is more of a shift in focus..

Instead of putting her needs or goals above yours do the opposite..

Hypothetical example here:

If you gave up pursuing a degree to give yourself more time to support or further WW's career, now is the appropriate time to make the priority of getting your own degree more important than supporting her in getting hers..KWIM?

[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:44 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

Holding her accountable and standing your ground is NOT being a jerk. Letting her go to pout/cry/wail in another room is NOT being a jerk.

I get it, because I'm compassionate to that point too. Hate seeing people upset, even if it's their responsibility that they're upset. I've had to learn that me cushioning my WH's emotions and 'solving' problems for him has actually done him harm, even when I was doing it to be nice. It meant he never had to deal with his stuff. That set him back, not forward.

Start letting her feel the emotion and consequences of her actions or she'll never have that opportunity to change. Also dig and look up things as you've started to do already - if your gut is screaming and you need to listen to it.

Hugs!

So then grabbing her a towel or coffee isn't a bad thing?

No, its not bad persay but if you show her any sort of kindness she will take it for weakness.

Ignore her like she doesn't exist. Why be nice and considerate to your destroyer??

It's not logical.

Kids and finances only.

Get your own towel...your own coffee. Avoid her like the plague!

Let her see what life is like without you being a loving husband...she fired you from that job, 'member

DETACH

Found a program that backs up her texts to email. That's a start. She left the phone up here. Trying to wrap my head around the 180 still. Every part of me says it's a mistake, that I need to be nice. I guess that's what got me here in the first place.

180 is a change in your attitude basically. Don't do even little considerate things you used to do, and that will throw her off in her little game, she won't know what to expect from you...180 is one of YOUR most powerful tools.

GettingToHappy is right, she will mistake your 'niceness' for 'weakness' (and more control for her.) Treat her very casually, like you would an acquaintance.

I don't consider this to be 'mean' at all. During his A, my H lied and denied to me to the point that I thought I was going to go mad, he spent money that belonged to US on his nasty f*fests with the mow, he was hateful, cruel, and deceitful beyond belief. Now THAT is MEAN, and heartless.

Let her hit rock-bottom alone, it's the only way she MAY come to a turnaround in her mind.

Murph, you can't 'nice' a WS back. You probably were and are a nice person anyway. The reason she cheated is that she *chose* to do so, with no consideration for you whatsoever.

I've been at SI for 8 years and read thousands of stories. So many BS's (in their shocked and panicked state of JFO, myself included) think it's something they did wrong. And most of them try and be extra nice to their WS. I have NEVER seen one time where that was a successful strategy.

When you detach and 180 them, it changes the whole atmosphere. If WS is going to leave, that is what they will do anyway, so you have nothing to lose, and possibly everything to gain by doing the 180.

180 gives you some of your dignity back in this shitty situation..

It is the appropriate way of dealing with people that don't treat you with respect.

[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:26 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]

I'm just laying here stressed and obsessing. Am I doing the 180 right? Can I even do it right? How do I get to the lawyer? How do I act towards her around friends and family? How I keep it together for the kids?

Definitely one of those times when I wish there was someone to talk to face to face.

These will be some of the most confusing times in your life. Every instinct is telling you that if you were a better husband, this disaster would not have unfolded. Almost every member here has been there, and done that. I can remember as plain as day 4 years ago, thinking to myself--"How did I let this happen? What can I do to make things right? If I show my WW wife how nice that I can be...like a good husband should, then she will return to the good wife. I am deathly afraid that if I am not nice to her, then she will leave. How do I prevent this?"

It doesn't work that way. There is nothing---and I mean NOTHING---that can justify her behavior....even if you were a poor husband. You have to accept that there is something very wrong with your WW to make the decisions that she has made. That is no cop-out to our behaviors, and contributions to a less than stellar marriage---it is simply putting responsibility where it rightfully belongs.

Prior to this, I am sure that you both had shortcomings in your marriage. She then blew it up in its entirety. This is what needs to be addressed first, without anything else getting in the way. You can let her know that if she is fully committed, and wants to try to save the marriage, then you are all in. But anything less, and you are all out. There is your need for the 180--a detachment tool that breaks you from your very own fog that you are currently in.

And let me tell you---when you can look at your current situation with some emotional distance from your WW, you will see things in an ENTIRELY different light. This is your end goal---your well-being. Whether it is as a team with your committed WW, or on your own with an unremorseful one, you need to get to a better emotional state.

Why do you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you? I'm only asking cause maybe your reply will help me with what I'm going through. My partner has cheated several times. Each time I'm the one wondering if it's something I did. Finally I realize that although things are great in every other aspect of our life, that maybe it time for me to accept the pain and go through the sadness so that I can find my self respect. It's very easy to forgive and push it away mentally cause then you feel a little better cause you aren't in such termoil but the wounds are still there. I know. This is the 5th time for me. I think I better start thinking of myself. You probably should also.

I have been hitting the 180 hard today and it's been really hard. Her family is in town (they don't know), I'm being nice and upbeat with them as well as the kids, but not being right by her or really talking to her. My issue now is how to react to her reaction when she gets mad because of course I want to apologize. This morning she actually said "Morning" to me and I didn't respond, so she said "I said MORNING." I looked at her said "sorry I didn't hear you. Morning." Then got my coffee and went on my way. I legitimately didn't hear her. Church was hard, we joint teach the Teen Class so I had to be there with her and help out there. The worst though was during the Lord's Prayer. Normally we hold hands. I folded my hands in front of me and looked down. She put her hand out for me to take and I just ignored it. I thought I would throw up. In the meantime she has gotten me more coffee and fixed the spot on the back of my head where I missed with the clippers. She keeps engaging me in conversations. My answers are just yep, yeah?, that's cool. I want to think I'm doing it right and it's working, but it's kind of early to tell I guess.

She told me this morning she called and left a message for the MC. Said she left the house and her cell numbers. If talk to them make the appointment for Thursday or Saturday. I said "OK". In my mind thinking, "I'm not talking to them, you need to do that."

Why do you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you?

The issue is that I love her. We make a great team and are great partners. The issue is that she isn't always faithful. I'm willing to give her a chance to prove she will change.

It's very easy to forgive and push it away mentally cause then you feel a little better cause you aren't in such termoil but the wounds are still there. I know. This is the 5th time for me. I think I better start thinking of myself. You probably should also.

That being said, I will only give her one chance. I'm trying to work out in my head when I will meet with the lawyer. I'm trying not to use that as a threat, but I really want to make the call to the lawyer in front of her. Just to show her that I'm serious about this and she needs to either get serious or get out.

She just came up and asked "so is this how we are going to be? " I said "is what how we are going to be?"

Then she stormed down stairs.

I mean fuck woman get a clue you need to come crawling to me.

I was stupid to think I was getting through.

If the purpose of the 180 was to manipulate or hurt Mrs. Kite, then it's a colossal failure. She loves it. Very little talking, no embarrassing questions or demands from me, no intimacy. That's her idea of the perfect marriage. But the 180 is not about that at all. It's about taking care of you first.

Ok. Then I messed up. I thought it was more like the silent treatment. I just don't get it then. I don't know why I don't understand it.

She's trying to push you for a reaction. Every. Time.

Have you read "Understanding the 180"?

I'll find it and bump it to page one.

What you want to do is find a base-line for yourself.

Be busy, be engaged in things outside your wife's sphere, be it sport, the garden, helping friends or family... anything but moping, not hanging around to check on her, let her see you getting on with life.

Make sure you shower and shave every morning, dress nicely, look like you've got plans, and then find something to do, even if it's just going out for a coffee by yourself. If she asks you, just say "I've got stuff to do".

As for the normal little niceties that you'd do... coffee, towels... nope, sorry, you need to retrain yourself not to do that, I know it's hard, I know it goes against your natural instincts, but you need to be strong here.

Unfortunately, infidelity is one time when the nice guy almost never wins.

If she speaks to you, limit answers to monosyllables, yes, no, okay....

She needs to see the consequences of her actions, there's always consequences.

Get to that lawyer, ASAP, knowledge is power, power is attractive, and you need to shift the dynamics of your relationship. You also need to know what to expect should this all go completely south.

You're doing great in a situation you should have never found yourself in. Remember that none of this is your fault, I don't care what she says. Stay Strong.