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maybe I need some anger mgmt therapy or AA or something might have made me willing to talk but that apology?

Don't fall for that either if he tries it... Sperm donor used to throw out "I am going into therapy or voluntarily going into rehab or AA meetings" And, it was always just a sham or smoke screen to get me to forgive him or give him another chance. Its rarely, if ever, meaningful. Don't fall for that crap. Seriously. FTG!

Aww Caregiver, thank you!

It's almost like I've got the thank this guy for the napalm b/c it made it all nice and obvious for me lol.

Still, I'm sad and disappointed. Loneliness descends it's little grey cloud around my head again ...

That's awful. I'm so sorry. You deserve so much more.

((Cayc))

Tell him you want your money back, and if he doesn't give it back you'll sue him.

Asshole.

CC -- it was just a matter of time. You know that. I'm thinking that the main reason that it took so long is *because* you guys were LDR. I have a feeling that this guy would end up being a nightmare if you had to deal with him on a 24/7 basis.

It's one thing for a person to say something *mean* in the moment -- we've all probably done it. But a person who uses the "you're selfish" as the fall-back defense every.single.time he doesn't *like* what you're saying is just a douche.

From everything I know of you, *selfish* wouldn't even make it onto the top 100 list of CayC traits.

I can *see* you attempting to fight off the impact that his words had on you. He hit you in every single *tender* spot that you have. He has called you selfish. He told you that you *deserved* what your x did to you. And I know that you are fighting like hell not to succumb to those thoughts -- because you KNOW that they are NOT true. Please don't let this guy drag you back down into *the pit*. Please.

IMO there is no amount of *special* that could make up for the fact that he told you that you deserved what your x did to you. None. I don't care how mad he was or what his *malfunction* is.

I know that you had really high hopes for this guy. And I'm really sorry that he didn't cut the mustard. He's not worthy of you. He just isn't. He's not a prince in a frog costume. He's merely a frog. Let him go drown in his pond.

Everything Gonnabe said!

But a person who uses the "you're selfish" as the fall-back defense every.single.time he doesn't *like* what you're saying is just a douche.

Yes I can see that (now) because it's a line that really means "you aren't giving me what I want so let me cut you down to size and bully you into doing it".

And yes I did have high hopes for this guy. It's going to be weird for a bit b/c we spent all day talking via email, text, phone for almost 6 months. It's going to be a big hole. But unbeknownst to me I really must have done a lot of healing from what brought me here b/c in the past I wouldn't have just stopped the good feelings on a dime, would have made excuses for the guy, and probably wouldn't have even seen it for the abuse it is. So there, progress!! lol

I agree that it may have taken longer to see because it was a LDR, it is easier to hide things via phone/email.

I think the "missing" part is the hardest to heal from, but give it a little time and take another chance on someone new.

You ARE growing and healing. We do learn to take care of ourselves, our own emotional needs. If something isn't right, it may take some time to see it...but you do see and and no longer make excuses for poor behavior.

Someone who says intentionally cruel things to you, especially as a pattern, isn't someone YOU want to be with.

It will take a little while for you to let go of the possibility, but just recognize that you are going to feel some pain and loneliness while you heal. My IC always tells me to cocoon during this time. Surround yourself with "self-care", take it easy, buy something pretty, read a new book, get a massage, something simply for yourself. Post on SI, lean on your friends through the worst days...and in no time you will feel better and gain additional clarity.

Do NOT take anything he said to heart. You ARE one of the most compassionate and amazing people I have "met" on SI. Which is also why he was attracted to you.

** t/j A slight humor... I have to post this...I'm sitting outside on my deck with a hot steaming cup of coffee enjoying this beautiful chilly morning. I live in a neighborhood with houses fairly close together, but my neighbor can't see me. He is raking his leaves, with his headphones on, loudly singing along with the tunes on his iPod. He is terrible. Like ducks mating. I'm trying to type this serious post to cayc and all I can hear is duck squacking singing coming from next door. Now he is whistling with the occasional falsetto word thrown in. And he only sings about every third word. I think he is singing Prince. Life is funny.

So there, progress!!

Yep! You have come a long way, CC. Now go and do something fun today.

....and I'm at cmego's neighbor....

Unless there was some promise in writing or provable - this money would probably be considered a gift. I have made the same mistake and rather than wanting to deal with the guy, I just used it as a life lesson.

Yes FTG!!! Crickets...

Cayc, that's terrible. Do you have any close friends there you can spend time with?

EDIT: Double post?

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 10:42 AM, October 20th (Sunday)]

Oh oh oh, please promise us that no matter WHAT he says, you will NOT consider making up with this douche. If he does this in the "honeymoon" phase of your relationship, just think of what he would be capable when you'd been together ten years!!!!! Even if his rant was booze/ambien-fueled, do you really want a relationship with someone who abuses booze/drugs to this point?

When people tell you who they are, believe them. ((cayc))

Edited to add: And the only correspondence you should have with him at this point should be through SMALL CLAIMS COURT.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 10:44 AM, October 20th (Sunday)]

((cayc))

I hope you are doing OK today.

I'm so sorry cayc, what an ass, but I'm glad he showed you who he was so early in, especially considering the LDR.

Definitely follow up on the money, but if you can't get it back, depending on the amount, it may not be worth any additional contact.

((cayc))

((((awww cayc))))

Ditto what everyone else has said.

About the money -- I also was in a LDR relationship (125 mi apart) and lent money. So you are not the only one !!!

This went against every rule in my head but I let myself feel sorry for the guy etc. I thought we had true love and all that. (I have spent a good bit of time in therapy working on my co-dependent tendencies, btw, so I am owning my part.)

ANYWAY ... we only had a verbal agreement backed up with emails but no actual document signed.

When everything imploded, I basically said, forget it, use the money you would have repaid me to see a therapist etc., because I was all noble like that

So I started seeing a therapist right away and after I'd seen her for a couple of weeks, she encouraged me to ask him to pay the money back.

But I'd already forgiven it, I said. In writing. She said, you wrote that under emotional stress. First of all, what is in your best interest now? (Obviously, him paying me back.) And, what do you have to lose? (Nothing).

SO I emailed him, totalled up everything that had been borrowed (this did not include all the money spent on the rel't, just money that had been loaned) ... It was over $2K. A substantial amount.

I told him my therapist had encouraged me to see repayment of the funds, that the forgiveness offered was when I was in a state of emotional distress, and that I would be happy to pursue this in small claims court if he didn't want to repay me.

**I am sure he felt guilty.** It had been about 3 weeks since I'd given him the boot. He signed a basic promissory note to pay $100/mo until whatever month, 2014.

THEN, when I had the promissory note in hand, I mailed the new girlfriend -- the one he had cheated on me with -- the mea culpa I'd gotten from him when I caught him cheating. (She had no idea she was the OW.) And I mailed a copy to the sister & brother-in-law she was living with too

Anyway, he has been paying me $100 a month like clockwork since then. I have no idea if he and the new girlfriend are still together. I am proud to say he is blocked every possible way he can be, and I have never once looked at his FB.

He made about 1/2 what I did -- I'm sure it's a cramp in *his* budget, even a relatively small amount like $100. A couple times he has delayed his payment a couple of days until he got his bi-monthly paycheck, so that tells me he's still living very close to the bone.

Also, I am sure he is honoring the promissory note because he knows my Ralph Nader side and that I would haul his ass into Magistrate's court for non-payment, garnish his wages, ask for costs, and ride off into the sunset

ANYWAY, this is my looong story, just to say -- do what is right for YOU. I wanted that money back that had been loaned. I'm sure he thought he could be all pitiful and I'd forget about it. Nope. It makes a difference to have that $2K being repaid.

Every time I get a check, I do something really nice for myself

You are really lucky to figure this guy out in 6 months. Honestly. I was in the aforedescribed relationship for 4.5 years ! What a waste.

I'll never lend/give anyone money EVER again in a relationship. And I will never date anyone with significantly different income/prospects than me either!

(((hugs))) to you. Take good, good care of yourself.

ETA to add a few more juicy details

[This message edited by seekingright2013 at 1:29 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]

Re the money, I've got a signed promissory note and beaucoup emails about it. If I have to go to court to get his wages garnished, I suppose I could. But first I'm just going to ask him. I haven't decided if it's better to email or call ... as in what would be more likely to produce a good outcome.

This morning I got up at 5am to join my teammates in a marathon relay, and I ran 10K. Those of you who are runners, I salute you. Those of you who are Crossfitters that only run when it's on the whiteboard, you are my kin. But nonetheless I did it.

So busy day today, and busy week. The gaping hole is really going to show itself next weekend. He was supposed to arrive this Friday and stay for a week. It also kind of messes up the holiday season since all of my travel plans - or lack thereof - were predicated on him being here. Ugh.

I do find myself wondering what the hell a little bit. But you all are right, if he'd do this now, how much worse would it be over time? A lot worse.

Here's hoping that you don't get sucked in again. I made a mistake with a verbally, bordering on physically abusive man that almost cost me my relationship with my son.

Sometimes our loneliness makes us not see straight....

(((cayc)))

Have been meaning to stop by and give you hugs but was struggling on what else to say.

You've got this.

You survived and thrived after what your terrible XWH did to you.

This guy didn't inflict a fraction of the damage that XWH did.

You'll survive and thrive again. You'll learn new lessons, improve yourself even more, and someday you will find a fabulous guy who is worthy of you.

I know it still hurts in the meantime, but you've got this. Promise.

As for calling vs. e-mail -- I'd e-mail so you have a record of it and so that you're not tempted to listen to his excuses if he happens to be sober when you call. And if he's not sober, you wouldn't want to talk to him anyone. Keep it in writing and unemotional. Best of luck!

I'm sorry your relationship had to implode, but even though it's weird to say so, I'm glad it imploded so spectacularly. This way there can be no waivering on your part. He's shown you his flaws, and IMO, they're insurmountable. You dodged a bunch of bullets with just a flesh wound.

(((((cayc)))))