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Been doing ok now for a bit. Dr even moved me off the AD's. Been off for a month now.

Then heard the stupid 'Secret Lovers' song at the grocery store. I mean..when do we ever REALLY pay attention to that music. Well, they may as well have had it on full blast, because that is the way it sounded. I had my first panic attack in a year. I was literally going in circles in the store. Leave/stay, confused on what to do. Sweaty, heart beating out of my chest, wanting to leave the basket and run out of the store. But I tried to stay focused on the present. I texted him, but he was unavailable. I tried to look through my list and stay focused on the task. This was Thursday.

By the time he got home, I was curled up on the bed. He ended up ordering dinner in for us. Convinced me I needed to eat. I thought he really was there...

NOT!!

He basically went back to studying that night for his exam. Never really 'discussed' anything with me. Other than an Im sorry and a quick hug.

Friday..he worked a double shift...not around

Saturday...as I worked our garage sale for 5 hours, he stayed inside to study. Then he went in for a few hours to work.

Sunday....early shift so he was gone before I woke. Came home, slept a bit, then studied. Decided it was best to study in our bedroom and leave the light on as I tried to sleep. I awoke at 11;45 to light on and him in bathroom with book and ipad (triggerville!!) He finally came to bed around 12:15, went right to sleep. I was so triggered and wound, I went to couch in other room to watch tv until I passed out.

Monday....asked if I wanted to talk...about 15 minutes before I am suppose to leave for work.

Today....again pulls the 'do you want to talk' 15 minutes before I need to leave for work. Later on texts me while i am still at work, that he is going to carpool with a female to class so he can save gas and study while she drives----he cant read in a moving car as he gets carsick if he does. WTF...saving gas was never an issue---being alone with another female ---BIG issue.

I mean..after all this time/effort does he truly still not get it?!! Seems more like avoidance pattern to me.

We made a list in MC of things we need. We discussed it a couple of months ago in MC. The only thing off my list was the help around the house (empties the dishwasher). Me, I have the list copied down and try to make sure I am doing the things he needs. But off my list..Not the signs of affection...emptying the DAMN dishwasher seems all he is capable of. Not been to MC in a month due to his work schedule and her available appts.

He reacts to me, rather that proactively try to make me feel safe/secure. Today's messages show me he isn't getting it. Or please 2x4 me if i am just overreacting.

Ughhhh...just needing to vent as I feel like a timebomb ready to explode!

ETA--to clarify

[This message edited by tryin2havefaith at 3:38 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

((tryin2havefaith))

Bluntly? Nope. And I speak from reading through your post and checking off EVERY SITUATION you described from my own experiences. All of them are on the "bad response!" red flag list.

My WH gets like this, too. We just had a confrontation about it Saturday. He gets studying, gets major tunnel vision, and I get more and more invisible to him, regardless of what's going on with me.

It's a huge thing to be a priority after being pushed aside for an affair. When it feels like everything has to come before you and the very understandable feelings you have are too scary or too much trouble to be addressed directly or sincerely, there really isn't enough difference between their behavior during the affair and what's going on now.

It all just feels like a remix with only you being tied to the reality of the situation. And guess what? It feels that way because that's exactly what's going on. It's a weird, passive aggressive way of gaslighting.

Lack of momentum or bad momentum is very real and damaging. He's not doing enough for you, frankly. Not nearly. It doesn't take all evening to sit and talk with you. You aren't putting his studying at risk to expect him to take time with you. It isn't worth saving gas when it costs you a fragile sense of safety. This isn't about the situation being perfectly convenient and the stars lining up right before he can pay attention to your needs.

This isn't about you making all the sacrifices. This is supposed to be about him making things right with you. HE has to make the effort.

If he isn't - which it doesn't look like he is - he's accountable for that choice, too.

[This message edited by Reality at 5:43 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

Later on texts me while i am still at work, that he is going to carpool with a female to class so he can save gas and study while she drives----he cant read in a moving car as he gets carsick if he does. WTF...saving gas was never an issue---being alone with another female ---BIG issue.

Um, what?

Riding to class alone with another woman? And TEXTING you to let you know about it, instead of, say, talking about it in person and ASKING? Plus the thing about how he gets carsick, so he just HAS to study while she drives???

It sounds like he's got some sort of serious exam coming up or something, lots of study time. But since when does that mean it's cool to slide on boundaries? Has he ever introduced you to this female classmate? Is having her contact information a necessity for this class, or is it possible he could only have male classmates' contact information?

On top of all the triggers and difficulties this week, this really isn't what you need. The hard question now is, how can you bring it up with him? Please don't hold it all in. Open up and let him know. If it's cluelessness on his part, then maybe he will be reminded to be more mindful. If it's not cluelessness, then his reaction should be telling.

Yes, I've met her. She is barely 21. Yes it is an intensive class. It requires a lot of study time.

Would talk with him tonight as he has night off. But it would seem mommy has been in a minor car accident and he is over there with his siblings (I haven't spoken to them almost all year now....too toxic to my recovery). So I guess tonight will be out too.

Think I need to break out the sleeping pills and take one so I get enough rest to be able to work tomorrow.

(((tryin2havefaith)))

I think it is time for you to say "This isn't working for me."

I did just that last night. Laid it all out there. Basically called him on his shit. He was oblivious to it all, which is the problem and why we keep losing momentum.

The carpooling was because I had told him we needed to conserve gas until payday, as we just had a huge bill to pay. So he 'thought' he was doing something good. Told him to look at the texts from my point of view, given what he put me thru. He never explained any of that or asked me how i would feel. That it is NOT ok to carpool alone with someone who is female. That is a consequence as HE broke my trust and the fact that he ignores it, kills me. Then the light bulb went on. Promised me that it would not happen again.

Discussed the lack of attention to me, and this he still seems a little fuzzy on. So I explained to him this way:

If the roles were reversed, I would be moving heaven and earth to make sure he felt loved EVERYDAY. There would be no question as to it. Well, emptying the dishwasher as the only thing he can do off my list of needs to feel safe/secure...well, does not make me feel loved, nor does being alone and ignored.

I can/will/do get triggered by some things now. I wish to god I didn't, can't stand these attacks. But there is not all that much I can do at times. I'm in this hell because of his actions, and he needs to step up and stop wallowing in his own guilt/shame/avoidance issues/etc. Because although they are less frequent, they hit harder because I am left to deal with it on my own. That sets me up for a trip down the dreaded rabbit hole.

I am tired of the only intimacy right now being when we are making love...that merely makes me feel like your f--k buddy. Told him if that is all he is capable of, then tell me now so I don't waste anymore time on this.

We will see. He SAID he gets it. Now lets see if the actions match the words.

Well said, all the way around. As scary as it is, after proving they are capable of terrible things, R is only successful - or even possible - because of what the wayward partner does.

We can make strides on our own and grow as people, but if they aren't working to do that for themselves, and then with us, there ends up being nothing to build on together.

Be really blunt. My WH finally made some big connections when I suggested asking himself this basic premise when he gets hyper focused and oblivious to me: "Is this (whatever project/activity/schedule) going to matter if it damages our relationship?" What good is killing a test or being ranked top of the class if at the end, he's by himself? Priorities and avoidance tend to clarify pretty quickly.

"Is this (whatever project/activity/schedule) going to matter if it damages our relationship?" What good is killing a test or being ranked top of the class if at the end, he's by himself? Priorities and avoidance tend to clarify pretty quickly.

Thank you Reality. I AM going to use this on him. As he is all wrapped up in doing well. Actually beats himself up if he gets less than a 100 on tests or projects. He needs to step up and put that kind of commitment into our R.

Wow......so his ONLY reaction to it was to let me know he scheduled the MC appointment for next week.

UGHHHH>.......

Huge red flags.....

No, IMO, he doesn't get it!

I'll bet he has or will say, "I'm not attracted to her anyways, so what's the big deal"

We waywards are too predictable!

Wow......so his ONLY reaction to it was to let me know he scheduled the MC appointment for next week.

My WH would say this represents a "not feeling" mindset. There's some serious emotional detachment going on here on his part. That's a big red flag - not necessarily that it means another affair, but that it means the type of thinking and compartmentalization that made an affair possible are still in full force.

You were completely right when you said:

If the roles were reversed, I would be moving heaven and earth to make sure he felt loved EVERYDAY. There would be no question as to it. Well, emptying the dishwasher as the only thing he can do off my list of needs to feel safe/secure...well, does not make me feel loved, nor does being alone and ignored.

And:

He needs to step up and put that kind of commitment into our R.

Yep. Unfortunately, his response about the MC is another avoidance, by putting the effort of dialogue into the MC's facilitation. MC appointments are NOT the only place that dialogue is supposed to be attempted.

((tryin)) I wish I had a mini mental bomb that could knock self awareness into that horrible fixated state. It's hugely triggering to have to fight to be heard. You know your tolerance level. After learning that patience only gets me so far, my tolerance level ends with evidence I'm the only one making a real effort.

[This message edited by Reality at 1:43 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]

Have you done the 5 Love Languages self-assessment? What are his primary LLs? What are yours? Do the match or conflict?

If you haven't done the assessment, I strongly recommend it. The red flag I see is a mismatch in LLs - and those are pretty easy to fix, and the payoff of fixing this sort of mismatch is unbelievable until you try it.

Yes. Did that. Nothing we didn't already know. Funny thing is that prior to his A, he was speaking mine and me his.

Somewhere along the line depression hit him and he went askew; and although the A was short lived and now long over, he can't seem to make it all the way back.

I'm not giving up on us without kicking and screaming (just a metaphor), but am afraid at some point it will just become too exhausting and too far gone. Then it may be too late.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the 5LL.

Well, emptying the dishwasher as the only thing he can do off my list of needs to feel safe/secure...well, does not make me feel loved,

Got it: NOT Acts of Service.

I am tired of the only intimacy right now being when we are making love...that merely makes me feel like your f--k buddy.

Got it: NOT Physical Touch at this time.

If the roles were reversed, I would be moving heaven and earth to make sure he felt loved EVERYDAY. There would be no question as to it.

Could this be Quality Time?

Can you ask him for 30 minutes (or whatever reasonable time you need) of Quality Time on weekdays, 4 hours of uninterrupted time on weekends and a date night X times a month?

He reacts to me, rather that proactively try to make me feel safe/secure.

And you react by getting resentful, which is negative reinforcement, rather than spelling out exactly what "safe/secure" means to tryin2havefaith.

No. Am not discounting it

It is the fact that he has become oblivious to me and our rebuilding of this M. This time he became oblivious to me even when I TOLD him I was struggling after being triggered. All I needed at that point was his reassurance--- physical, verbal, anything! He basically became not-there in any way shape or form. If he had dobe anything at that point, that would be moving us in right direction. Instead i got NOTHING! SO after almost a week of spiralling---yes- I got resentful. I'm putting in 110%. I'm asking for what I need. What I get is crickets.

We did the 5LL. We shared them. I try to access his as often as I can. Him....i get an emptied dishwasher and sone sex. But no real intimacy... no showing that I am worth it. But how do you work on R if ws is wrapped up in studies/work and putting efforts there and not on rebuilding.

I trigger because of what he did. I have forgiven him. I gave the gift of R. I am being supportive of his dream with school. Is it TOO much to ask to "be there" to support ME through the minefield he put me in? Without having to get to a spiraled point before he decides to act?

Ladies-first...you missed this part of my original post

We made a list in MC of things we need. We discussed it a couple of months ago in MC. The only thing off my list was the help around the house (empties the dishwasher). Me, I have the list copied down and try to make sure I am doing the things he needs. But off my list..Not the signs of affection...emptying the DAMN dishwasher seems all he is capable of. Not been to MC in a month due to his work schedule and her available appts.

I HAVE given him a detailed list and gone over it in MC with him as to what I need to feel safe/secure. He is (for whatever reason right now) not able to do any of the multitude of other things off that list I need. Only helping with the dishes seems what he can handle.

[This message edited by tryin2havefaith at 7:51 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]

He ended up ordering dinner in for us. Convinced me I needed to eat.

Monday....asked if I wanted to talk...about 15 minutes before I am suppose to leave for work.

Today....again pulls the 'do you want to talk'

The carpooling was because I had told him we needed to conserve gas until payday, as we just had a huge bill to pay. So he 'thought' he was doing something good.

Yes, sorry, I only saw the things he was doing, not "seeing" the things he wasn't doing.

Good luck.

He ended up ordering dinner in for us. Convinced me I needed to eat.

But that is where it began and ended. He ordered dinner, then went right on back to ignoring me and putting all his efforts into studying. While I was curled in a fetal position on our bed, in panic mode. Wow...he really went all out to make me feel safe/secure.

Monday....asked if I wanted to talk...about 15 minutes before I am suppose to leave for work.

and

Today....again pulls the 'do you want to talk' 15 minutes before I need to leave for work

Yes...allowing me a whole 15 minutes when I CANNOT possible get into any kind of meaningful discussion. That is QUITE a bit he is doing there! And after telling him so the first day, he did the EXACT same thing the second. Then was not around any other time to discuss. Work and study come first.

The carpooling was because I had told him we needed to conserve gas until payday, as we just had a huge bill to pay. So he 'thought' he was doing something good.

You seem to leave out that he only told me this after I got home. He initially was texting me that he was going to carpool alone with a 20 year old female. While I was at work.

here is that part:

Later on texts me while i am still at work, that he is going to carpool with a female to class so he can save gas and study while she drives----he cant read in a moving car as he gets carsick if he does. WTF...saving gas was never an issue---being alone with another female ---BIG issue.

He NEVER asked if it would be ok. Never really went into it other than "hey im carpooling to study and save gas alone with a 20 year old female...have a nice day!!" I'm already spiraling, he knows this (because I TOLD HIM SO), and this is what he does. How about..ask, discuss, tell me your reason...maybe have an 'ah-ha' moment that this JUST may be a tiny , little trigger..hmmm.

Before you go bashing, please read the entire thread and not just bits and pieces.

[This message edited by tryin2havefaith at 8:53 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]

Hi, tryin. I'm Reality's husband. Where you and your husband are sounds extremely familiar. I also have a very demanding course of study that requires intensive attention for large chunks of time and meticulous note-taking. I think his problem is two fold: he's avoiding having to think about or examine himself and his relationship with you by hiding in his work. Secondarily he's compartmentalizing like nobody's business. Because he has to study so hard he's broken up all of his time into small chunks. A problem that arises in one isn't translating well to a later one. I have this problem in spades at times. Reality is right though, its all meaningless if I come out on the other end without her. So I put myself on a strict schedule... and if I have an urge to go talk to her or touch her I do it instead of putting it off for one more paragraph or that next citation.

Personally, I think the best thing for you is to remove yourself from him a bit. Conversely this will have the effect of cluing him in to the severity of the situation. That his lack of attention is making the situation worse all the time, rather than it being something he can get to when he has time.

Thank you Tesseract. I have been starting a bit of a 180 today on him. If for no other reason than to maintain my sense of sanity. I was really beginning to go further down the rabbit hole and needed to stop that....with or without his help.

He is seriously just not getting it. I put the dots, connect them with a big black marker, even color the pic....but he can't/won't see it. I can tell by his reaction to what I say. I did use Reality's suggestion. His reaction was to consider switching majors. THIS tells me he is just not getting what I am saying. Any more atrempt until our next MC session will further frustrate me.

Today I just sat back and waited to see what he would do. Left all initiation to him.

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-when my alarm went off:he gave quick kiss and ILY. ..then rolled over and was back to sleep before I even made it out of bed.

-hour after I left for work: 2 hrs at gym (we both have life360)

-hone again for few hrs (guessing study)

-11:00am: left for 12 oclock class

245: first/only message from him of the day via text.

330-second class until 430

Is now 445. He's out of class and driving home.

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