SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So many here have responded with wonderful insight and advice. I'd like to add just one thing, from a BGF's pov.

The problems arise when her emotions overpower her logic

The reality is her logic IS what fuels her emotions. When we were living in a relationship where we believed all was well, and our partner was being true and faithful, we had peace and trust. The betrayed partner is now sadly forced to face those days were based off of lies. For us to see our WS as being honest and true, goes against everything we now know. Logic tells us they cheated. Logic tells us they were successfully able to hide it from us in the past. And logic tells us they cared more about themselves, than us.

So when a W is finally walking a straight line, it's almost impossible for us to believe. It's like that saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". At the same time, no matter how wonderful a W is living their life now...for us B's, the dark shadow of reality is always hanging over us...

Logically, if I wasn't good enough the first time around, to keep him from cheating, why am I now. Maybe he's just getting better at hiding it.

Don't get me wrong, I know people can change. And people do get past this. But these feelings don't stem from our pained emotions. They stem from the truth, and us having to face that it's quite logical for our W partner to continue hurting us.

The problems arise when her emotions overpower her logic

This one jumped out at me too. Try looking at it like this (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I think it will suffice to create the general idea);

I ask you to put repair an electrical socket and promise that the power is turned off at the mains. You do it and get a severe shock. I tell you how sorry I am, how bad I feel that you got a shock on my account and rush out to do it properly this time.

You believe me, accept my apology, make a second attempt at the repair and wham! You get a second severe shock.

Again, I apologise, tell you I feel bad and for the third time, I rush out and come back and tell you I really, really, did it right this time, there will be no more shocks. I promise.

At this point;

Would it be logical or illogical to expect/fear another shock?

Would it be logical or illogical that fear of harm should come into it at all?

Good point, Clearview.

I guess I'm seeing it from the perspective of someone who is working on your proverbial outlet by himself. I know I've already hurt her enough, I know I've failed in making certain that the electrical shocks don't come, so rather than put her into harm's way, I'm doing it by myself - trying to fix what I broke in the first place by not only handling the actual tools and doing repairs, but also by demonstrating through my doing so that the power really IS off this time, otherwise *I* would be the one getting shocked.

I understand your analogy completely. I guess I just want to know why she keeps thinking/acting like she's the one that's got to do the outlet repair when, if I'm the one that messed it up, I should be the one responsible for fixing it and showing her that I can do it properly for a change.

KB:

I understand your analogy completely. I guess I just want to know why she keeps thinking/acting like she's the one that's got to do the outlet repair when, if I'm the one that messed it up, I should be the one responsible for fixing it and showing her that I can do it properly for a change.

Furthering the analogy, and gently,

Because you have demonstrated your utter incompetence in her eyes to be trusted to fix anything...

The sad reality is that you broke HER, and unfortunately, you cannot fix what you broke regardless of how much you might want to or how capable you might think you are. The best you can do is to do no more harm, there is no fixing her. Trying to "fix" her is likely to be seen as invalidation of her fears, concerns and pain. (As if you decided she has had enough time to heal and she isn't doing it to your standards.) As unfair as it is, she has to do that herself before she is willing to trust your competence to help rebuild your relationship with her.

I find it easier to think of this process in 3 parts - you, her, and your relationship with her. You can work on you, and your side of the relationship with her, she has to work on herself and her side of the relationship with you if she is willing. You can open the door, but she has to walk through it, and in her eyes, make herself vulnerable to the pain once more. Again, horribly unfair, but this is her reality. Be patient, hold that door open and keep inviting her in.

F10

[This message edited by Finally10 at 10:28 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

Again, horribly unfair, but this is her reality.

I think you meant to say "Horribly unfair THAT this is her reality." My suffering is only all too fair to me for what I've done.

people have a gravitational pull. They have an effect on you. Even when they don't speak.

welL her external definition of you may not be correct what she is sharing is her perception of your motives and thinking. You have to do the work to explain what you're really thinking and feeling. It will be exhausting and you will get tired of it. But you have to do it.

your gravitational pull is affecting her.

You've provided your spouse a tramatic experience. It hurts like hell and was hurting like hell non stop to her like driving a stake through her heart. Her blood pressure may have raised, she questions herself, confidence slips, possibly bi-polar like symptoms as she's trying to puzzle piece the reality toghether while you are cheating on her. And then when she finds out, all her poker chips get snatched as her confidence drops to an all time low.

Can you, imagine being "broken down" by this woman that you say you love. What if you SHOULD NOT defend yourself, and you should feel as degraded and pained, and lucky to first be alive, and secondly lucky to have your family back, that you lose all the pride and ego built up on being able to cheat on your wife, and actually have to start over again, building your confidence within your family unit?

True remorse does not feel good at all. It should hurt, you should feel low, you should question yourself, the rebuild of trust should take some time and not be comfortable.

But after you have gone through it, you will be a better person for yourself and for her.

Can you do this?

The problems arise when her emotions overpower her logic

Perspective from a BS that is getting a D. This was my issue as well and if you truly want R, your looking at this from the wrong direction. If you want R then the real problem arises when logic DOES take over while her emotions are all over the place.

I am not being flippant at all when I say the fact that she still gets angry with you and engages with you means she still cares. This "external defining" is her trying to reconcile who she thought you were with who she sees directly in front of her now on a daily basis. I noticed you have multiple Ddays in your signature. In her mind, she is waiting for the other shoe to drop. Focus on continuing to do things to better yourself and resolve your own issues. You will need to show her that you have in fact changed for a very long time before she even begins to believe it and even then there will be times when she triggers. You can't make her stop doubting you, she has to do that on her own after your actions have been consistent for a very long time.

I wish you the best. If you are truly in this for the long haul then keep working on you. This sucks but start worrying about your BW's actions toward you when she has none towards you, i.e., she no longer cares enough to put forth effort. For some BS's the safer option is to shut down and walk away. Right now she is still trying to figure you out. Your job is to show her that the old you is no longer here and the new you is the real you and here to stay. If she decides that the old you is in fact who you are then she will stop asking questions and will no longer try to "externally define" you because she will have made up her mind about who you are. It's what I did, the way I figured out if my STBXW was still lying was to assume that who was in front of me was who she was all along. That meant that no matter what, I would never be safe and couldn't trust her so I filed for D. Using clearview's example, I had been shocked enough times that I assumed the power was on indefinitely.

Keep showing her that you have in fact changed and eventually if she is going to come around she will and she will work through her own issues and pain. Just my 2 cents.

As a BS possibly turning towards the path to D as well, I can't agree more with 7yrs...

I am not being flippant at all when I say the fact that she still gets angry with you and engages with you means she still cares.

Yes!

I noticed you have multiple Ddays in your signature. In her mind, she is waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Waiting in agony, thinking if she can figure it out first, it won't hurt as much as being blindsided again.

This sucks but start worrying about your BW's actions toward you when she has none towards you, i.e., she no longer cares enough to put forth effort. For some BS's the safer option is to shut down and walk away. Right now she is still trying to figure you out. Your job is to show her that the old you is no longer here and the new you is the real you and here to stay. If she decides that the old you is in fact who you are then she will stop asking questions and will no longer try to "externally define" you because she will have made up her mind about who you are.

Take it from someone who is now seriously exploring the safer option, this is spot on.

I had been shocked enough times that I assumed the power was on indefinitely.

EXACTY.

I wish you well and commend you for putting yourself 'out there' here. I wish my WH would show me that kind of effort and courage.

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 12:11 PM, November 11th (Monday)]

7yrsflushed:

She also reminds me that she wouldn't be fighting if this weren't, in her mind, worth fighting for. She doesn't work like that. Yes, you're absolutely correct when you say that her anger stems from a caring place. Sometimes I just fumble the ball a little when I try to catch it.

Thank you all for your help and kind words. They do help a lot, and I have re-read this thread many, many times over the last couple of weeks.

Is it possible to take a break in the middle of such an event. Like 15 minutes to stop the talks and each person take that time to regain some composure and then pick up the discussion?

It sounds like a lot of your frustation is associated with the long discussions wearing out good intentions and good will.

I agree... You brought this situation into the BS life and now want to be upset cause BS is dealing with it and has many different emotions all day everyday. I think you should reassure her as many times a day that she needs. She didn't ask for this. This is the crappy gift handed to her.

My husband feels the same exact way as you do. I have to "put words into his mouth" because of his decision to keep secrets, mislead me and trickle the truth destroyed my ability to believe to believe anything he says. My sense of security is gone. He has offered very little info or insight into his thoughts or feelings during that time. I had to figure things out on my own. What he did offer contradicted the facts. The one and only person that I believed in and relied on to protect me and look out for my best interest, is the person that tricked me and played me....And he teamed up with another woman to do it. One of my biggest fears is that him and the OW are laughing at me behind my back. I'm trying to make sense of things and feel safe. I act like this when I'm feeling especially vulnerable and insecure. I know it's not helping my marriage but right now, I don't feel safe enough to let my guard down because I'm not sure I can handle another lie or disappointment from him.

I know that he's trying and that he's sorry. I truly believe he is suffering himself. I know he feels like he's being punished over and over. I worry that he'll give up. Have you ever asked her what she needs from you during these times? The worst thing he can do when I'm acting like this is to not say anything at all. That makes my anger 10 times worse. I also don't like when he gets defensive about it. When I'm acting out like this what I really need is his reassurance. I need his attention. I need to hear him say something like "I can see that you're really hurting right now and I know I did this to you. You're angry and you have every right to be. I love you and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back". I want him to put himself in my shoes and say "i can understand why you might think we were laughing at you behind your back. I'd probably feel the same way. I'm sorry that my actions have hurt you so much"