SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The OBS deserves to know. If you don't tell her, you become part of the lie. The moral and ethical thing is to tell her. Do it with sympathy, do it with kindness. Offer whatever information you have - but tell her.

You are part of this. You can either maintain the wall of silence and allow her to continue to live this lie or you can gift her with the truth.

Your WS's wishes are not part of the discussion.

First of all, many thanks again to everyone who posted. Apologies to those toward whom I responded more defensively than I should have (e.g., Dreamboat).

WW and I are working collaboratively on a way to tell OBS as well as establish NC with the OM and maybe even have some plans in place to deal with some possibly unpleasant consequences. It will take a few days to put all the pieces in place, but we're going to do this together, and that makes me feel better than I did about doing this in the face of WW's deep misgivings and reluctance to be supportive of my need to do this.

So, again, thanks for helping me look at the various perspectives.

[This message edited by lloyddobler at 12:03 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

Here is how WW and I have decided to go forward with a way of establishing NC with one of her APs and make sure that the relevant OBS knows in this case. WW sent this note to AP and me.

I should point out that this letter is the product of a compromise between WW and me. I'm glad she's decided to work with me on this since she's been very clear in saying that she'd prefer that OBS never know at all. It has meant that I've conceded a little bit of ground in order to work collaboratively on this, but I'm basically satisfied that we're moving in the right direction here.

Thanks again for all the input about this earlier. Feel free to critique and offer predictions, cautions, pointers, advice, hopeful remarks, etc.

*****

Dear AP,

[My BH] recently learned about the nature of our relationship, as well as other infidelities on my part. As part of our reconciliation efforts, I cannot be in contact with you any longer. If you attempt to contact me individually via email, Facebook, text, or phone, I will not respond. In the possible case of us attending the same social function at some point in the future, I will be civil but do not plan on having any interactions or conversations with you. Another aspect of my reconciliation with [BH] includes transparency on my part. As such, I will share any instances of contact between you and me, either technologically or in person, to help rebuild trust with him.

The reason that [my BH] is included in this specific conversation is because he feels very strongly that [OBS] has a compelling right to know about our infidelities. He and I do not entirely agree that this implies a moral obligation on his part to make sure that she knows, but I believe he is sincere when he says that it is something that he needs to do as part of his process of healing from the pain that my infidelity with you has caused him.

[BH] and I both believe that it would be better for [OBS] to hear it from you and that there will be a higher possibility for reconciliation (and a stronger marriage) between you two than if she hears about it from anyone else. In fact, no matter how [OBS] finds out about our infidelities, in light of my own experience with [BH], it is now clear to me that you will not be able to have a healthy marriage unless you are able to be truthful with [OBS].

In any case, if you decide to tell [OBS] yourself, you will need to research and determine the best way to do so, though [BH] and I believe that you should at least be clear on these three points: (a) that our relationship was not Platonic, (b) that this aspect of our relationship began before you were married, and (c) that this aspect of our relationship was ongoing for a year after your marriage. But, no matter how you decide to go about telling [OBS] or what you specifically decide to tell her about the infidelity, [BH] will need confirmation that you have given [OBS] these basic facts of the situation. There are a number of ways that this confirmation might be accomplished, but I believe the best way for this to happen is for [OBS] directly to contact me, [BH], or both [BH] and me (your [BW's] preference) in order to confirm that you have told her about the infidelities between us. We are uncomfortable with the fact that this puts a burden on [OBS] to contact one or both of us, but it is the only way we can think of that allows you the opportunity to tell her yourself and for us to still feel confident that she is aware of the information.

This should be done soon, and we expect to hear from [OBS] by December 7. If we do not hear from [OBS] by that date, [BH] will feel obligated to contact her himself and supply her with evidence of the affair.

As far as your [BW] is concerned, [BH] and I both believe that she should be encouraged to do whatever she believes will best help her heal from the hurt she will feel. We are aware that there is some likelihood that she will respond angrily toward you, toward me, and perhaps even toward [BH] because of the pain that this revelation will cause. In light of this, if [OBS] would like any additional information or confirmation from either [BH] or me about the basic nature of our infidelity, she should feel free to communicate with either or both of us via Facebook.

Thank you for your understanding,

[WW]

No, no, no.

YOU should tell the OBS. Not your cheater wife or her cheating husband.

He will lie and gaslight. Even in the face of clear evidence. And you WW will minimize.

Even the language in the NC letter is minimizing and euphemistic.

The no contact should be brief and to the point.

Dear POSOM,

Do not call, email, text or try to see me. I do not want to see or here from you at ALL. I have made a grave mistake having anything to do with you.

Any attempt to contact me will be met with an RO from my lawyer.

I love my husband and we are working on our marriage so Get LOST.

WW

See...simple.

Since you have made a big fuss about telling the OBS, your WW has probably already warned the OBS. So POSOM already has a jump on gaslighting any missive that you send.

Please don't tell your WW anymore of your thoughts on contacting the OBS.

Affairs thrive in secrecy. And many times in polite society folks are quick to say "what happens between two consenting adults is none of my business". Except when you actually experience the incredible heartbreak from betrayal. Then any healthy and moral person would do their very best to inform a spouse who was betrayed. Because you now know intimately what it is like to chumped by the one you vowed to love and respect.

It is the most humane thing to do.

See, giving him the heads up to cut you off at the pass is totally ineffective.

Actually, I only let my FWH know I had spoken to the other BS after the fact.

The 2 people involved in the A already have a history of collaboration and deception against the 2 BS's. My vote is to involve neither of them in the disclosure. Let the AP's know after, if you'd like.

I can't really say anything other than, if it were me, I would want to know. Oh, wait, it was me. I really wish I had known. Ignorance is not bliss - it is just delayed humiliation

I agree with plainpain.

I also believe that WW just wants to keep her secrets secret. It isn't for OBS or you or OP, but to protect herself.

Some of the anger I have a hard time getting over is the number of people who knew but didn't tell me. Those people who came to my home, ate my food, accepted my hospitality and let me be oblivious. Granted WH put them in a bad position, but they just accepted it. Having a very hard time with that one.

[This message edited by HollyLou at 6:59 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

Leave it up to your WW whether to inform the OBS. She has been wearing the pants in the family for the last many years anyway.

She showed him how to love ardently and not feel it a sin; he showed her his mind -- the mind of a philosopher whom she would later call "the uncrowned king of the empire of thought."

[This message edited by LeopoldB at 7:13 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

Gettingtohappy is right. Take wisdom and experience into account from the WS and BS that have been there.

I don't doubt that there may be a fallout for your WW from the OBS. My H AP did not want my H to tell me about their EA for fear of me ruining her life. Your wife probably fears that too. BUT, guess what? THERE are repercussions for committing adultery with another persons spouse. This is your wife's battle. Not yours. You can't fight this for her. She chose to insert herself in another person's marriage and she can't bury her head in the sand.

As for you (another BS)...I had no anger from the OBS directed to me at all when I told him. He didn't contact me back at all when I sent him a FB message (months later when the need for revenge subsided). It was cordial...filling in the nature of the affair. Not attacking her. I will post what I sent. Truthfully, I am not sure he even believed me (which is not a reason to not tell)...as I hear from many others that some BS have open communications looking for answers and a kindred spirit in the other BS from the A.

A few weeks later, I needed validation on whether the A was only an EA. I texted his phone. No response. Still thinking he was in denial or she had down-played it. No response till I gave him a detail that put his reactions into the situation. On the night my fWH was out with her and a co-worker drinking...they came home to their spouse and BF at 4am. She FB messaged my H about how mad her BF was and won him over by cooking him breakfast. When I shared that detail with him asking and telling him-she owed this answer to me. I got a response from him. Now, he could believe it...now he did confront her. He never gave me any issues or my H.

I know one thing...I sure as Hell wouldn't have wanted to know from the AP herself. She helped ruin my life with having an A...I sure as Hell wouldn't want her ruining my life by telling me herself. How would you have liked it if the OM told you?

I too only let my fWH know I contacted the AP's BF after the message was sent.

You know what needs to be done. I don't think you are a coward. I know you are aware there may be repercussions. What it really comes down to, are you selfless enough to face the chances of a negative outcome and do the right thing regardless of PLATO. Of course he is going to say what he said. He was human after-all and it is human to avoid pain and confrontational situations. But, it is beyond human to go the extra step and be selfless.

Just from what you have written so far...you don't seem like the type to settle for mediocre.

Already heard back from OM. He has begged us (me, really) not to tell his wife. Here's the upside... I now have actual evidence to share with OBS. Prior to now, I only had my WW's confession (some vague text messages and FB posts, but nothing explicit). But now I have the AP himself apologizing for the affair without disputing anything in our message and saying that if I tell his BS that it will destroy his marriage.

Whereas WW and I collaborated on the first email--written in her voice and to her AP--his response made it easier for me to give my perspective. So I wrote back briefly to do the following: (1) reiterate that, if he does value his marriage at all, he will tell his spouse himself, even if there are no guarantees that this will save the marriage; 2) reiterate that I will contact his wife myself if I'm not absolutely confident that he has filled her in on at least the basic points.

A couple other interesting tidbits. First, as I suspected, WW's AP hinted that he has been guilty of other infidelities than the one with my WW. He said he and OBS have been in marriage counseling and that OBS is [his words]: "aware of 'things' over the past couple years, just not specifics or the parties involved." Of course, this is exactly the kind of gaslighting crap you all are talking about... he's saying he's been honest with his wife to the extent that she knows "things" and that they have decided to put that in the past and work on the future, but he's also implying that he hasn't been honest at all since he's evidently terrified of what will happen when OBS does have concrete information about any of this.

Anyhow, while it might sound to those of you who have offered criticism and advice that I haven't been paying attention or that I've been so defensive that I'm not hearing what your saying, I want to say that I appreciate your perspectives and advice. I also want to be clear about this, though: the fact that I have been thinking through the issue by playing devil's advocate to my own intuitions about what's right isn't because I'm wishy-washy or inclined to let WW, OM, or even the possible reaction from OBS have too much influence of my decisions. Rather, it's that I believe that playing devil's advocate helps make the best decision, not just a right decision.

I also want to say that the fact that WW collaborated with me on the letter to the OM was important to me. I could certainly simply have contacted OBS myself without having to collaborate with WW at all. But, by collaborating with her on this issue, I think we've been able to expose some of her own foggy thinking. It helped, too, that our MC suggested that she embrace the opportunity I was giving her to work with me on this. As he put it to her, she can't expect that just because she has now been honest about her affairs ("honest," I should add, only because I found out about one and was pretty certain about the other one) that there won't be further unforeseen consequences of her affairs that may be painful for her.

Anyway, it certainly doesn't look likely that OM is going to come clean with his BW in a way that will meet my terms. But I will have at least given him a chance to do the right thing.

@leopold: Your time machine joke was a lot better.

Im sorry that email was sent to OM. But not because it gave him a "heads up." Frankly, I think it's absolute crap that your WW is trying to give marital advice to OM. What nerve she has..to tell him what his BW's feeling will be towards him..and her. To tell him what is best for BW's healing. To tell him how to tell his BW that he fucked another woman.

Wow. Your WW has balls. I get why it might make you feel good that she said these things. But,as a BW, if I found out that his OW told him how I would feel..and how to handle me and my feelings upon learning of the betrayal...THAT would make me want to confront her. It's bad enough she had an affair with her husband..but to say what is best for her,the BW? Just wow.

He isn't going to tell his wife. Please,please do not allow..or have..your WW inform his BW of the affair. You say you feel strongly that she be told. Then tell her. You, not your WW. Compassionately and kindly.