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Karma, I love your post. This is exactly what I've been struggling with these days.

12/2 is 9 years(!) since the last DDay. We've been in MC for a year and a half. And the MC encouraged me to let go some and enjoy the relationship now. She even said something about torturing myself, which pissed me off.

I just can't get past the fact that for 5 1/2 of the 9 years, he was a dick and refused to tell me anything about it. And then there is everything else, including the constant criticism. Oh, and that it took the MC telling him that it's not ok to talk alone with an attractive woman for an hour at a party when I'm 3 feet away. We had to pay the $160/hr fee for him to finally hear that.

I do believe if I let go more that my husband could relax more and then he might find it easier to be kind to me. I do believe he is better than he was 15 years ago when we got married, then 9 years, than 1.5years ago when we started therapy. But I had to fight tooth and nail for it and I guess I'm bitter now. Too bitter?

I just.can't.help.it but I'd see me letting go as me once again being the one to put up and suck up and be the bigger one.

What a freakin' mess. I told my husband last night I need to go to IC.

What makes some able to let go and others not? I guess it's multifactorial. The background of each person. What happened. The WS actions during and after the affair. All sorts of things.

There's a section in 'Not Just Friends' about Fostering Positive Exchanges.

"In his extensive research, John Gottman found that satisfied couples were those who maintained a ratio of five positive moments for every one negative moment, even if the couple was conflict-habituated or conflict-avoidant." (p. 167)

Not surprising. Behavior modification is not simply stopping the bad habit. You must replace the old, bad habit (or thinking) with new, positive thoughts and behaviors.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 4:18 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Thank you ladies_first. I have that book. I'm going to look that part up. Maybe it would help if I try that with my husband. So when he tells me "you're hard to live with," then there is the task of trying to put some nicer acts into place so it's easier to let it go.

whoops!

[This message edited by ladies_first at 4:36 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Thank you for this. Your philosophy about R is inspirational. I really needed to read this today.

"In his extensive research, John Gottman found that satisfied couples were those who maintained a ratio of five positive moments for every one negative moment, even if the couple was conflict-habituated or conflict-avoidant." (p. 167)

I used to tell my husband I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I hate you. I figured I still got credit.

More seriously, there is another place on the internets that deals with how to FORGET memories. And the key, is to stop thinking about them. So if you want to forget all this crap, you have to actively stop thinking about it.

Think of your memories as a stream. Water is powerful and if the steam continues along the same path it will eventually cut a wider creek until it turns into a river and possibly a canyon. You don't want your brain to see the affair as the Grand Canyon, so you have to actively redirect that stream in another direction. The same is true for the wayward. If we keep asking the same questions for eternity, it will also engrain the memories of the AP for them. Don't want that.

***DISCLAIMER*** Again, I really think these techniques are for those at LEAST a year or more out. Maybe two, IMHO.

Thank you for this.

In his extensive research, John Gottman found that satisfied couples were those who maintained a ratio of five positive moments for every one negative moment, even if the couple was conflict-habituated or conflict-avoidant

I think after an affair/s it has to be much more than this....

I see what you mean karma, but IDeserveMore makes a good point, too.

What makes some able to let go and others not? I guess it's multifactorial. The background of each person. What happened. The WS actions during and after the affair. All sorts of things.

I thought I was doing reasonably well moving on. But then his affair came back to bite me 8 years later. Stress at work, the stress of raising two young kids, triggers from an insensitive comment or a TV show, a tendency toward depression...and BAM, I'm back to struggling about the past.

After IC, I get it. It's easier to go back to his affair b/c I know it well and I know it's something I can get really mad about. Dealing with the present is somehow harder for me.

It takes a lot of mental discipline to not go there, to stay in the present. It's very, very hard work for me. And sometimes with everything else in life, it gets to be too hard and I let it (the affair) back in. It's like trying to stay away from sweets and every now and then you slip up and have to have that doughnut!

The important thing is that we all keep trying no matter how many times it takes us to let it go.

[This message edited by so_lost at 5:58 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

This is a great post! Yes, thank you~! So much of reconciliation is about healing ourselves...a lot really is in our court and we can have tremendous control and effect as to how it all goes and as to how long we let ourselves suffer.

Grieving must be done and it is okay to grieve. But after a time, and I say sooner rather than later and yes I had to FORCE myself (but it was for ME), and I still do FORCE myself...but I DESERVE to be happy and what he did or did not do cannot be ALL that makes me happy or unhappy.

This is hard to think as my relationship is so important to me and takes front seat. So if it does take front seat, then I want it to be happy...so what am I trying to do? I can take some personal control and not just rely on him for MY healing:

1. When I get a trigger and he is around say out loud to him something nice

2. Be strong enough, have character enough, to accept that it is better for our relationship if I do some of this healing, yes even crying, by myself. I do NOT have to share every sad thought...it comes to a point when that is NOT a loving thing to do...I will "man" up or maybe "woman" up and be mature in my actions, thoughts and emotions.

3. I will realize that the As is not everything in my life. I am defined by so many other things, my work, being a mother, being a friend, being a happy person, and these parts of me deserve equal attention and care...the A part, yes, thank you very much but you can sit down now.

4. It is OKAY that it is taking time. Be proud of all the hard work I am doing...imagine the wonderful resilience I am building, the character and a truer understanding of what "forgiving" is and means..which is a process not a one time thing and takes effort...but Be PROUD of doing this hard work and easy on myself if it is taking time because I am only human as well.

5. FORGET this 2-5 year crap!!!!!! It takes the time it takes...and I sincerely believe it can actually a lot SHORTER TIME if I do NOT recall the DDate nor other "significant" one year, one month since this or that kind of crap...(I actually do NOT remember the exact dates nor time nor will I try to). I for one will keep working hard to bring myself to happiness and healing...with the thought, yes the conscious THOUGHTS that it will go a lot FASTER than I think...that is so much more positive than dwelling on this 2-5 year things..that is BS and leans toward negative and keeps me there rather than hopeful...F the 2-5 years....I reject that in place of just moving forward in determination and confidence....I can THINK whatever I want....I am in charge of my thoughts....I can THINK positive or dwell negative..what makes me happier? I ask myself these and I work hard...tiring, yes, but isn't happiness worth it?

[This message edited by morethantrying at 6:26 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

There is a point in R when it no longer is about what your WS did to you. It becomes about what the two of you can do together. But you have to be willing to take that step and enter into it.

What a great post! So true! At one point my WH really was trying and I was stuck in my need to punish him and was deeply depressed. It took a long time to get out of that cycle. We are now a team in this together, but it took me having to become vulnerable again to him.

..karma..

your post and so many others who replied to it, are packed full of wisdom that i needed to hear.

..the 'holding on to my story' and the burning anger i feel still for the bfOM have kept me from healing faster.. being unable to get the closure because he died before i even knew the real truth.

..so many things about the double betrayal that have kept me in pain..

..i'm so tired, tired of fighting with the ghost.

..i visited his grave a couple of days ago, again, and poured another litre of urine over his headstone and did my happy dance.

..a promise i was determined to keep, and i told him so when he was alive.

..reading this thread has given me so many reasons to let it, and him..go!

..thanks for your help in making me see the light to a brighter future..

I WILL TRY HARDER!!!!!!!!!!

smy

Mine was a double betrayal too SMY, but yours, IMO is so difficult.

My OW isn't dead. There were times I wished she was. Very dark times. I really struggled with it.

I cannot compare my sitch to yours, I know they are all different. The last piece of the A for me was letting her go.

Lately I actually think I am bordering on forgiveness with her, I have such sadness for how she has chosen to live her life.I don't know that she even wants to be forgiven. She used to be my friend, was she always a broken soul that I didn't see? Did she just hide it from people?

There will always be unanswered questions about her part in the betrayal. I have to continue to leave her be and worry about me and my life. I have to choose happiness, and I try to do that consistently.

(((SMY))) I so respect you and your path. I hope you can find your way to happier times.

This post has so many nuggets that help. I think it’s important to remember that changing is better than forgetting. What I mean is changing how we look at something, putting it into our own perspective, making it part of our own story, reframing it in a way that allows us to process it and be ok with ourselves and our M. As much as I would like to I don’t think I will ever be able to forget. I know I will never be ok with what was happening. I can be ok that it is part of my/our history. I can change what it means to me.

Thank you to every one.

karmahappens, do you think there were some specific things your husband did that made it easier in your path to moving on? Or do feel it has been more something that happened within yourself.

I'm just asking because I've had such a hard time letting go. I'd love the peace that might come with it. It just feels like something I can't will myself into, after what's happened.

I don't know what could do it for me, unless I get a brain injury. I could be like that guy from Memento.

Hey IDM

For me it was really both.

I dove into IC. I was pretty broken, had a lot of trauma as a child I hadn't dealt with. Our marriage issues were primarily mine, funny enough.

So me getting healthy was huge, a big part of my R. But my husband was also a big factor. I didnt find SI for a long time. He did the transparency, constant texting, gave me passwords, all the "must do's" to make me feel safe, on his own.

Once we thought we could commit to R he never waivered, I had no TT, he was a model. He has taken responsibility at all times for everything with his A. Has never been angry with me for being bat-shit crazy, crying, being angry.

So in short, it's both. Both of us, healthy and willing.

(((hugs)))

karma, oh wow, that sounds great. What I wouldn't give to have that story.

Mine is opposite on just about all those points: his FOO issues, never admitting the affair, years and years of TT, refusal of transparency, ridicule at my emotions related to it... and the hits go on.

This thread gives me hope and makes me sad at the same time. I feel like I have too little material to use to heal and let go.

You can't do R alone IDM, you just can't.

(((hugs)))

Change the pieces you can. Make peace with you and your healing. It's a big step and will change your outlook, I promise.