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Background:

One of stripper whore's friends (also a stripper whore...I know...what are the odds! ) dumps her 5 year old at ex-shat's all the time. He is always there when Teslet is there.

On the way to school this morning, Teslet is abnormally quiet. I ask him if something is wrong. He tells me that this kid kept calling him names, kicks him, throws things at him. I ask Teslet if he told the kid to stop. Teslet said yes, he tried that. I asked if he started calling names and hitting back. He said no not this time. I asked if he asked dad for help. He said yes and that dad yelled at the other kid but (and this is Teslet reporting) it didn't last because kid's mom doesn't whup him. ("Whup" is a word that ex-shat would use.) Teslet was pretty worked up that this kid wasn't minding.

I told Teslet that when this happens again that maybe he should just go be with his dad instead of this kid. I told him that he doesn't have to play with this kid, he can go do something else.

Teslet then asked if I would talk to dad about it.

So, do I send a message to ex-shat about it? I was thinking something along the lines of

Teslet mentioned that [kid] is calling him names and hitting him. He was pretty upset about it. I'm sure there is some back and forth between the two but Teslet was so worked up about it this morning, I figured that I'd give you a heads up.

I hate communicating with that jackass.

Do I send it? Word it a different way? I can't see whereas anything will change...but at least I can tell my kid that I tried...I'd like to tell Teslet to haul off and hit the kid but I'm not going to do that...even though I'd really, really like to.

Word it a different way. And also see if Teslet's counselor can see if there's anything Teslet needs to draw a picture about.

If I were you I would probably send that message. But I would focus most of my efforts on trying to help your son cope since this child is not that much older than him which would make it a different story.

What I'm going to say may not sound popular to many people but it was quite successful with my own three children and I will say that none of the three of them including my now 17-year-old boy have ever been in a fight.

I always told my kids to never ever throw the first punch but if anyone swung at him or her or anyone else first that they needed to defend that they have my permission to unload on them. One time my son picked up a boy and jacked him up against the wall for being inappropriate with his younger sister and another time he shoved a kid down who was trying to kill a praying mantis on the playground. I really think the fact that my kids could stare a bully in the eye that is threatening them or trying to hit them and say to them "if you hit me, I promise you I'm going to knock your teeth out" helped them get left alone. My kids knew I would back them as long as they didn't start it.

I have good kids who have never been in trouble in school at all and are honor students and respected by their friends and teachers.

I think it's time that you tell Teslet that if this boy hits him, he has your permission to punch the boy as hard as he can right smack in the face. Explain to him that the only reason this would be appropriate is it the other boy try to hit him first. It sounds like this kid is a bully and the only thing they understand is someone who they fear.

[This message edited by debbysbaby at 4:28 PM, December 9th (Monday)]

This child is kicking and throwing things at Teslet? Sounds like an unsafe environment to me. Definitely document. Communicate with jackass if you think it'll do any good. Otherwise, I'd have my lawyer write a letter that it has come to your attention that there is a violent disruptive child in Teslet's home. Remedy the situation or visitation will be reevaluated. Then again, I'm feeling really bitchy today.

Do NOT have Teslet hit back. If this situation were in a daycare or preschool, the violent child would be suspended (BTDT).

Yeah, one courtesy request to ex-shat, then throw the lawyer at him.

You definitely have to contact him about this. If it bothered Teslet enough to come to you, then it's bothering him A LOT. He's being bullied at his own father's house and that is NOT okay. Frankly, I think you need to be a bit more authoritative in your tone because he needs to take you seriously - like you're not dicking around here. Perhaps something like:

Ex-Shat,

I'm writing you with a concern Teslet raised this morning on the way to school. Teslet was upset because he said [insert brat's name] has been verbally and physically antagonizing him while in your care. Teslet mentioned that he brought his concerns to you and, to your credit, you did intervene; however, Teslet said the verbal and physical altercations continued even after you intervened. This was enough to upset him to the point in confiding in me and asking me to talk to you in order to put a stop to it. I will not (as I'm sure you would not if the situation were reversed) tolerate my son being bullied by a stranger in his own home. This poor behavior on [insert brat's name] part must be adequately addressed before it gets out of hand. Please see to it that it is.

Thank you,

Tesla

As an aside, if you can afford it (or when you can afford it) sign-up Teslet for Karate. It will do wonders for him in terms of self esteem and dealing with bullies. I sooooo wish my parents signed me up when I was a kid! The earlier the better.

I like Anewday's response.

It gives Asshat some credit (stroke the ego), but you're still advocating for Teslet and being very firm in your expectation that the bullying better stop.

While in the magical land of fairytales, teslet's father would step up and do the right thing and the legal system would step in and protect your child from bullies if his father did not do so, the reality is (and I know this because I've been divorced nine years and have quite a lot of experience with horrific parenting by lower muppets and their mates) nobody is going to do anything if Teslas father doesn't. It would take emergency room bills and injuries before you could even begin to have a leg to stand on.

My children who are almost 20, 18 and 16 years old put up with so much s**t and I could get nothing done. Their father would get them a separate hotel room on vacations when they were seven, nine, and 11 years old. And we are not talking about adjoining rooms or even rooms next door to each other. They put up with verbal abuse, threats of physical abuse and babysitters who were doing drugs and I couldn't get anything done about it. If his father won't defend him, certainly teach him the proper ways to protect himself verbally but do not be afraid to teach him to physically defend himself against someone who is physically attacking him. Lord knows I know I would defend myself and I'm certain most of you here would as well so why do we teach our children not to?

I told my son when he was bullied at school to hit back if necessary and I would support him even if he got in trouble at school. He did end up having to defend himself and he NEVER had a problem with bullies ever again. He found his confidence that day. HOWEVER, he was in 4th grade. Your child is too young to defend himself and does not have the mental skills to work through this situation. Contact his counselor and get professional advice. Then take it to your lawyer. But make sure Teslet knows you have his back and will try and fix this situation.

As for karate, my child took karate lessons for 8 years and actually ended up a 2nd degree black belt. He knew the moves perfectly but wasn't great at the sparring. Visit a karate school and tell them what is happening, maybe they can do some one on one of what to do in situations where someone is hurting him.

I'm sorry that this happening to your little one, our worst nightmare.

Deby, I'm with you on responding to bullies. I tell my kids that they shouldn't throw the first punch (unless there's immediate physical danger), but once violence is happening they have my permission to go ape shit & fight back as hard as they can. I teach them to use their command voice first, but when a bully doesn't respond and they are being attacked (or someone else is being attacked) I will back them up all the way if they respond back in kind.

I learned the hard way that being conciliatory with playground bullies doesn't work. I won't have it happen to my kids.

Bullies need to know that if they don't start nothing, there won't be nothing. But if they start something with my kids it won't end well for the bully.

This one is tough. I hate that Teslet is being exposed to this in a place that is supposed to be safe for him. I really have no advice, just a hope that ex shat puts Teslet first. (((Tesla and Teslet)))

I'm with Anewday. You need to be firm with him. It's happening on his turf he needs to accept responsibility to fully address the issue

I'm with anewday too.

Fuck me - that zoo pisses me the fuck off. There are always going to be 'those' kids who bully. I tell you what the second time a visiting kid got physical with my girls it would be the last time they visit.

I have to tolerate bullies at daycare/school (writing complaint letters left, right and centre) but no fucking way would I tolerate it in my home.

I'm teaching my girls to NEVER hit back, to get away and ALWAYS tell teachers, carers and me about it. I'll pursue the staff until it stops. I like the idea of self defence classes when they are older. IMO it is a life skill.

I told Teslet that when this happens again that maybe he should just go be with his dad instead of this kid. I told him that he doesn't have to play with this kid, he can go do something else.

Teslet then asked if I would talk to dad about it

Sounds like ex-shat gave the *expected* "knock it off, you little shit" response, expected that to solve his *problem* and then blew Teslet off. Not.Cool.

I think that 5 is too young for a *hit back* strategy. His dad needs to handle this. Your email is too *nice* and it kinda throws Teslet under the bus and gives ex-shat an opening to blame the issues on him.

I'm sure there is some back and forth between the two

Tes -- do you really think that Teslet is instigating any of this?

"Ex-shat--<kid of stripper-whore's friend> is bullying your child. Handle it or stop having the child in your home when Teslet's there."

^^, I do agree with you but she can't make him - if she uses this strategy he will use it to torment her via Teslet if need be. He has done it before.

I'd love to unleash all hell too but unfortunately it only does harm - you know we're not dealing with normal people here.

It sucks but I think the only thing tesla can so is alert asshat in the hope he'll do the right thing but plan for him NOT soon the right thing.

Give asshat the benefit of doubt - not for him but for Teslet and only because you have no other choice. If you could do something legally you would. As it stands I don't think that's a possibility. The courts have an extreme definition of abuse.

[This message edited by SBB at 3:01 AM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

"Ex-shat--<kid of stripper-whore's friend> is bullying your child. Please handle it by letting Teslet hang out with you when the child is acting out or perhaps stop having the child in your home when Teslet's there."

There. I *fixed* it (?)(maybe?)

I have a four year old and a seven year old, so I experience that world daily. Here are a few random thoughts:

1. Definitely communicate to your H about this. I like Anewday's letter...just would leave out the last sentence and personally, I would add a sentence to start the note...something like, "Telset enjoyed going to the playground with you last weekend (or whatever they did, etc). He told me he had fun. I wanted to let you know that he also tasked to me about..."

2. If you haven't done this already, talk to Teslet today and thank him for letting you know about this kid's bad behavior. Tell him you are sending an email to your X today, and you'll let him know the plan that daddy suggests for helping with this.

Encourage him to keep telling you these things. Praise him for it.

3. If you can find a good karate studio with a good teacher, I'd seriously consider that. It may not help with this situation, but in two or three years might help, even against this same kid, you know? It will take time for Teslet to build fighting confidence, skill and strength, but once built...

4. This next suggestion may not work with your X, but it is something you might be able to use. Talk to Teslet abiut the the two of you establishing a silent communication system, so he doesn't have to verbalise anything (mommy, so and so is hitting me and bring mean, etc). The signal can be Teslet coming to you and standing very close and just touching your knee once. You can then step in and go and talk to the other kid, extract Teslet from the situation, etc., without Teslet having to "tell" on the other kid. It's very empowering to a young child. Obviously, it would be great if your X would do this with Teslet also, but I understand you can't control that.

5. My son is 4. If I were presented with this situation I would probably role play with him. Lets pretend like I'm you and you're the brat. I would then respond to the "brat's. misbehavior in various ways, hoping to teach my son some techniques for handling these situations. I would probably research some stuff using google, so I could hopefully transfer the best techniques possible. I would offer, at a random time and day, after the first role play, to play again. See if he wants to. If not, fine. If so, drop everything and reinforce.

6. Teslet is lucky to have YOU.

Carry on, loving mom.

Thanks for your responses.

Do I think Teslet is instigating...no, but I would not be surprised if this is starting out as playing (Teslet and I 'pretend' karate fight each other)and the other kid doesn't know how to 'pretend' fight.

The name calling is inexcusable to me and Teslet knows better than to call another kid something other than his/her name. This part is clearly bothering him (and the fact that this kid is not responsive to adult directives). In fact, he talked about it at length last night just before bed. Poor kid, I guess he was trying to confide in some of his pre-K friends for sympathy and they laughed at him. (I tried to tell him they were probably just laughing at the way the names sounded, they probably didn't understand that his feelings were hurt...plus...4 and 5 year olds aren't a great place to go looking for sympathy and empathy...yeah, he didn't really get that part.)

I'm in the middle of switching his counselor and won't be able to get him in till January...but thank you for the role playing ideas...I'll give that a try.

Ok, I'm going to go with something more strongly worded and take out anything that sounds like ex-shat could just blame it on Teslet. I don't feel like I can get too strong on it because than ex-shat will just pick a fight with me over something stupid and I really want him to attend to this.

Teslet has been asking to learn karate and I've told him we would look for a karate school after Christmas. So everyone's karate suggestions are well-timed

[This message edited by tesla at 6:21 AM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

Hey Telsa.

My son is 12 (almost 13) and has been in Martial Arts for many years. He is now a brown belt. The Martial Art he takes is the same type that they teach the military and the police and they learn to fight from any position and situation. But first and foremost they teach not to start a fight, rule number one is if you don't have to fight don't - run away, call for help,etc. But if you have to fight you know how. They also advocate protecting others who are being bullied or hurt.

That being said, in his many years of learning he has been in one fight. He didn't throw a punch, but did block the punch thrown at him (it was a friend).He knows not to pick fights and not to hurt people.

He has grown from a timid shy little boy to a confident strong teen. I can't say enough about how much learning martial arts has done for him. It has taught him to believe in himself, to stand up for others, to teach and help others whenever possible, and how to turn what could have been viewed as failure into a learning possiblitly. His martial art group has become like a family to us now.

I think you are doing Teslet a great favor by looking into a martial art class.

I also like anewday78's wording. It is a fine line trying to deal with an ex when we are the protective mom's who want to make everything better.

I hope it all works out.