SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You have goten great advice here. Read it over and over. Numb has a unique perspective on this I think has alot of validity. Please pay close attention to it. All I can say in addition is chaters lie, they make up elaboate coping mechanisims. Dont believe a word your wife says about this relationship. It will all be crap and a way to minimize the fall out. Verify every word you can and hold her accountable to her actions. mr nice guy is gone, she fucked someone else. She deserves no quarter, stay strong.

LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 12:43 PM, December 16th (Monday)]

I have talked to my wife and the OM's wife already today. PLus my SIL and my kids. My wife did talk to the OM's wife and told her about the affair. Then after that the OM's wife called me to confirm it and to ask me some questions of her own. A few minutes ago the OM, himself called me and apologized and agreed to answer any questions I might have. He is Pakistani and owns a store in our town, and is very concerned about possible fallout to his business, so I know he will probably be pretty honest about it. Unfortunately, since 9/11, Arab and Asian Americans face a lot of prejudice, and he is also worried about that, and possible hate crimes. His wife said that he is terrified that, as she put it, a "gang " of white people would attack him. Both he and his wife are petrified that this will ruin them. In fact his wife was so serious that I had the first laugh I have had in 4 days. I am not racist so they have nothing to fear from me.

I have checked phone records and so far the earliest call to or from his phone were in Late November and were very short. the last call, either way, was in late May, and it too was very short. Since then there doesn't seem to be any phone contact. I have asked for and gotten my wife's passwords for her PC, but she doesn't have a text phone so I don't think I have to worry about that. My SIL called me and has said that my wife is a basket case. So I agreed to talk to her. She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be". I told her to have my wife get the Counselors phone # number to confirm this, as well. One thing I HAVE decided, my wife must prove everything she tells me. I am going to take her word for nothing, for the foreseeable future. I really don't want to say what mu kids and I talked about, only to say that both of them have given me complete support for any decision I may make, and that they are extremely disillusioned with their Mom.

One thing I HAVE decided, my wife must prove everything she tells me. I am going to take her word for nothing, for the foreseeable future.

You are a wise man. Even after a couple of years I still verify sometimes. However I have also dealt with this by realizing that nothing I do will stop her if she wants to cheat again. If she does I will D her. She knows that. It is tremendously freeing to realize you will be fine either way. She is optional in your future. She always was, but you were reminded of that through this experience. Start gaining back the parts of you that were sacrificed to become one half of a M. Be whole on your own and stay M only if it enhances what is already there. Let your W carry the burden she brought into the M. You can always walk away if it comes to that.

My SIL called me and has said that my wife is a basket case.

Be wary. Blood is thicker than water. Only a basket case ? My W went catatonic and cried so hard she threw up. She later admitted to her IC that she wanted to end everything. Insist she seek help if it starts to get worse. What is her plan ? What is she doing right now ? Actions, not words. Words, especially from someone who lied to you, are cheap. What is her plan to win you back ? Does she even want to ?

It sucks when dealing with the consequences of your choices. Mind you, it was a choice. A deliberate one.

So I agreed to talk to her.

Talking is fine. This is a confusing thing too. Don't commit to anything. I don't know is an acceptable answer. I am not sure right now. Give it some time to sink in. General rule of thumb is to give it 6 months before making any big life altering decisions. Then re-evaluate. The point being let the intense emotions ebb. Rational thinking is hard with so many emotions flying all over the place.

She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be".

Why is your SIL telling you this instead of your W ? It sounds like your SIL may be telling you things to try and soften you up to take her back. Manipulation, if you ask me.

The best wife she could have been would have been honest with you. Especially about things that effect your life in a big way. Follow up with the MC. Ask your W to sign a release with the MC. MC will not disclose otherwise.

MC is a mixed bag. I have had my own experiences that were not exactly positive. Encouraging one spouse to lie to other is not really sound advice.

If you do MC again, I would look for another one. Would you trust this MC again ? They colluded to deceive you in the past, why would the future be any different ?

I know I sound harsh, but this is a script your W and SIL have written awhile ago. I would advise that you not share anything with your SIL you don't want your W to know. After all SIL lied to you too.

You are doing better than I was at this stage. You are going to be fine. It will get worse before it gets better, but believe me when I say people do survive this and are happy again.

Personally, I could buy the story about the MC telling her not to tell you. I personally think it is selfish of the WS to tell the BS if the BS would never find out and the BS did truly end the affair and recommitted themselves to their marriage. If that's what happened in your case, then I would give your WW some credit for it. Please know that I'm not trying to justify her actions at all though.

I'm sure others have a differing opinion. But, I know that I would rather being living in ignorant bliss right now than the hell I'm in.

She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be".

I hate this advice, but it is not uncommon. That is equivalent to saying live a lie the rest of your life and don’t let your spouse have the power to choose what is correct for them you choose it for them.

Keep the conversation between you and your W and on your terms from now on. Involving kids and outlaws only complicates matters. Continue to verify everything said and if you want to Reconcile and try to repair it starts with a NC letter, STD testing, A timeline of the affair and getting a long fu**ing way away from that counselor who told her to lie. Find another one who has experience with infidelity. You both need to start reading ASAP book on how to recover from an affair, with or without your marriage.

This shit sucks man, no two ways about it. I have had 2 wife’s who cheated on me. I have taken both paths (divorce and reconciliation), neither any easier than the other. I wish you well.

LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 2:43 PM, December 16th (Monday)]

I am very impressed with the way you are handling this crisis. You are staying calm and making reasonable demands that your wife is meeting. Wish I had remained this calm when faced with my WH's adultery.

One thing I insisted on was no physical intimacy until I had time to come to terms with this disaster. I couldn't deal with this and the betrayal at the same time, and damned if I was going to reward him for cheating.

Again congratulations on being firm and decisive. You seem to be digging out the truth and reconciliation will be that much easier as a consequence.

For most of us is is almost impossible to make a decision to physically stay in or leave the marriage this early in the game..

It is hell not knowing what the next year of your life is gonna look like, she pulled the rug out from under your feet...

So please don't commit to R any time soon..Tell her that she essentially threw a fire ball at your marriage and reduced your relationship to charcoal..

It is normal to take a long time before letting her know if you even want to R with her or not...IMHO she deserves to be in limbo...

Lay out your conditions of R whenever you feel strong enough and think you may be heading in that direction..

For safety sake consult a lawyer (specialist in family law/divorce) to see what rights and entitlements you have in divorce.. Follow the lawyers advice to protect yourself financially and legally so you aren't reduced to financial ruin should you decide to divorce her..

Sending you strength

I just wabnt to add that my WW's IC also told her to take her secrets to the grave after I found out. Meaning, her IC advised her to minimize.

I am not sure where these MC's or IC's come from.

But I do agree with this:

Personally, I could buy the story about the MC telling her not to tell you. I personally think it is selfish of the WS to tell the BS if the BS would never find out and the BS did truly end the affair and recommitted themselves to their marriage. If that's what happened in your case, then I would give your WW some credit for it. Please know that I'm not trying to justify her actions at all though.

^^^ There does come a point as the affair fades into the past that a confession does become a selfish activity. Only YOU can decide if your WW re-committed herself to the M after making the poor choices to have an A.

******Start gaining back the parts of you that were sacrificed to become one half of a M. Be whole on your own and stay M only if it enhances what is already there. Let your W carry the burden she brought into the M. You can always walk away if it comes to that.*******

I love this advice..I know all of us give this same advice here but the way this was worded struck a cord with me...This is a perfect description of what the 180 is about IMHO..

I have to say, BDell, that I admire the resolute approach you are taking.

Your wife obviously did not take into account you or your feelings prior to undertaking this affair. I see no reason you should tailor your response to try and protect her or her feelings.

You're doing what you feel is necessary and just, and I do admire it.

Btw, how would a hotelier remember an incidental customer from 4 years ago?

Perhaps I missed it but why did you insist she call your children to confess to them? From what I read it sounded like some sort of punishment.

Girlietoo - he said that she should tell the kids so they would know what to expect for the holidays. It wasn't necessarily punishment.

The fact that it looks like punishment is actually a plus. She should feel like she's being punished IMHO.

Sorry I haven't been back to respond but it has been something of a rat race around here today. I got really angry after my SIL told me about the marriage counselor and what she told my wife. At first I didn't believe it but after a while I got angrier and called my cheating wife (that is what I'm going to call her for the near future), Cheating wife or "CW" and told her to get her coat because I was going to pick her up and we were going to visit this MC person to find out if what CW said was true. So we went downtown, past all of the Christmas shoppers, families and Holiday decorations. she tried to hold my hand , but I shook her off and said "f*ck no, you don't deserve to hold my hand". We got there and the MC verified what my wife had said. I got angry and a little loud, so the MC, the Office manager and my CW went into the office and the Office Manager explained that she and the MC had discussed my CW's affair and her mental state and decided that , for the time being, my CW shouldn't disclose the affair, BUT this was only supposed to be temporarary, until they felt that my CW was emotionally strong enough to tell me the truth. It was my CW who got it wrong, which figures. My CW is smart even brilliant about facts and figures but when it comes to interpersonal communication , she doesn't always listen fully but, in her mind , she condenses everything down to the Cliff Notes version. If you know what I mean. The MC apologized (it seems that everybody is apologizing to me , these days) and asked if I wanted to start MC. My CW was all for that. But I said that I was unsure if I even wanted to try to reconcile, just yet.

I told my CW to tell me everything, every detail, every act, the complete story, and reminded her that the OM is scared sh*tless of me and what it will do to his family and business, so he will Narc her out if she lies, or his BW will. I told her that it had better be complete and if I even suspected a lie, it was over between us. I left and drove down the street and pulled into a gas station and I was shaking. Imagine me having to do this sort of thing. I never in a million years ever thought this could happen.

I've been doing a lot of thinking this evening, and have almost certainly decided that I don't want to reconcile. I may change my mind, but that's how it stands , right now. I will give her 1 month to prove that she is worth the kind of effort, and time, that will give me enough hope to try to make it work.

It's the oddest feeling I've ever experienced in my life. I THOUGHT I knew my wife, but it turns out that she isn't like the wife I married at all. My wife loved me, my wife respected me, and above all, my wife would never try to deceive me. this woman that I've been talking to isn't my wife at all. she is a stranger who has taken over my wife's body and replaced her soul with a vile , contemptible serpent. When we went to the MC., she couldn't even look me in the eye. My wife was a proud , self reliant person , not this begging , groveling creature. WHO IS THIS PERSON???????????????????

take a deep breath friend. your rage came pretty quickly, just like mine. But you don't have to make a decision now. As pained and outraged as you are, you have to remember you've been married to this woman for 27 years. she's the mother of your children.

yes, she did a fucked up thing. It's inexcusable. I'm pretty sure she's aware of it.

You may never get over this. for a lot of people an affair is a deal-breaker. This shouldn't be a surprise. Affairs kill marriages.

But don't rush to conclusions. i would wait at least 6 months before you make a decision.

And after you vent on her and she feels lower than shit. Ease up. Never strike her, even if you feel she deserves it. There have been times that she has treated you well. So treat her with mercy now. That doesn't mean you have to reconcile. It just means that you are a good person and recognize that she is a person who is hurting pretty badly now too.

when this shit happens, it's time to act with integrity and kindness (as soon as possible) and make a decision that is right for you.

Right now, there is no way for you to know what is right for you. You are too hurt. but you will eventually. And when you know it, you won't be angry anymore. Maybe just sad that things turned out a certain way. or maybe forgiving and grateful in the end, that you still have her.

A lot of BSs here do not have that choice. Their WSs are not remorseful and it shatters them. in this one small area, you are lucky.

Take your time. detach a little. work out. use this as an opportunity to be the person you can be proud of too.

Best of luck.

also, you may wish to check out the "betrayed men's" thread in the I Can Relate forum. Only betrayed men can post there. I don't have the link, because I'm kind of clueless. but there's a lot of great guys there who post regularly. You will get great advice from men who have been there and are still there where you are now. it really is pretty therapeutic. they cut to the chase. no bullshit.

Hmmm. Are you absolutely positive it was his BW you talked to?

I find it..odd. As a BW, I very well remember the moment I found out WH cheated. I was a mess that day..I have been on SI for a few years..I think it's safe to say 99% of BW's are a mess on dday.

But his BW? She not only had the presence of mind to call you..she did so at your WW..the OW's..request.

Something doesn't add up.