SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So...you're saying you want to reconcile with a "subtly abusive" spouse? Or is that wayward rewriting of marital history?

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.

There are consequences you say? The consequence of neglecting your spouse too much is that they will step outside the marriage. I don't really care if that is the "party line" here or not. It's not to be defiant it's just a fact.

Gently, the consequence of neglecting your spouse is that they will leave you. No act, ever, should have a consequence of betrayal. That is, imo, very wayward thinking. It reads as if you believe that you are entitled to do whatever you wish because you weren't getting what you wanted. That's not healthy thinking.

I'm a BS - and I think others have done a wonderful job trying to help you see things a little differently, so I will leave them to it.

I'm not trying to judge you - at all. I hope you don't see my comment that way. I've seen you say you hoped telling would bring 'authenticity', and yet you still feel justified in being very unauthentic and having an A. I wonder if that's really a defense mechanism because your H is acting very cold?

It's a sad situation all around. I hope things improve for you, I sincerely do.

Look I am not surprised by the snarky quotation marks around the word abuse in this case. It's like the quotations you might find around "date rape." But "subtle abuse" is not "Santa Claus" and I don't appreciate the skepticism, frankly. I suppose I could detail a list starting from how he went on a bike race when I announced I'm going into labor to when he had me shoved up against a wall poking his finger, hard, into my cheek but I am too tired to make such a list and since even Daisy 's gun story failed to sway the skeptics, I'm not about to do battle with em.

The subtlety is in the personality/ delivery. Not all abusers are all "Al Pacino," some are more "Jeremy Irons," ya dig?

Painful past, I hear ya, I do, but... As someone who's been cheated on, I sort of don't know if I buy that it's the absolute WORST thing you can do to someone. I mean, in dating life if you lose someone's interest and they date another, you're sort of told to suck THAT up, right? I mean...I dunno. I guess I pretty much think abandonment is the worst thing you can do to someone. Or maybe sticking around and picking at their self-esteem daily...that pretty evil too. But that's just me. Some would rather be abandoned or picked at constantly than betrayed. Maybe I'm the opposite...I dunno.

The lovely thing about individuality is, you don't get to decide for another person what hurts worse. Whether it's cheating, abuse, abandoning, burning their arms, picking up the wrong jello at Publix, forgetting an anniversary, or going hunting instead of a romantic beach vacation.

You don't get to choose for your husband what hurts worse. And the comparisons will get you exactly nowhere.

You work on what you can control. You. And your crappy coping mechanisms that led you to a long term affair versus taking up knitting.

And for the record, the gun story? That wasn't Daisy's. That happened to helplessme.

If my husband had willfully denied me my unquenchable need for quality Mohair, I totally would've taken up knitting again but sadly that was not the case.

Oh yeah and f^ck that guy who picked up the wrong jello, I can't believe he did that. I'll take being beaten by my mother with a shoe over that any day.

Regrette.

I think you are getting some pushback on the abuse thing here, because many of us here (BS and WS) have practiced some amount of self-pity and self-deception. So, we are all a little attuned to, close to dday, thinking and believing things that support our unhealthy behaviors. If you used your husband's emotional unavailability to rationalize your affair, there is a lot of work to be done there to tease the things apart.

I don't find your husband's actions re: filing for D to be abusive in the least. He is covering his butt. And, you know, why shouldn't he? You (gently) don't appear on the surface to be the most remorseful wayward. You say he isn't showing his feelings . . are you? He isn't acting "hurt," but are you acting contrite? My guess is that the word contrite actually made you squirm in your seat a little.

It sounds to me like you and your H have a huge power struggle going on, and if you, Regrette, want the marriage to work, then you are going to have to get vulnerable, get real, and go all in. Go to MC, read the books, and stop feeling sorry for yourself. The main thing my H has learned from this affair about himself is humility. It was a profound change for him, and a gift to our marriage.

I wish you peace, and the strength to not put up walls.

The stop sign has now been added. This thread is closed off to BS's at this point.

Thanks!

WSs Only. Stop sign has been added.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:35 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Good advice bionic gal. My walls are always penetrable, but you're right I've got them up.. But "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you"/ just because you engage in self pity doesn't mean you're not a victim. I actually have never said to anyone: "stop feeling sorry for yourself." even to a friend in a pathetic state. I never found those words to be helpful.

But you are right that I am not sufficiently contrite. Maybe cuz all the contrition I could muster was used to end the affair pretty much when it was at its high point. I was madly in love with my MM (though I recognize it now as a sick, unreal kind of addictive love.). But I ended it because I simply couldn't tolerate the "wrongness" of it all. It was wrong in every way, on all levels.

I need to learn self- pity is not vulnerability, because it doesn't let anyone else in, and it's not about anyone but yourself. It just was very hard for me to find the love for my H...it was down to one tiny burning ember, hard to see in the dark, because my resentment had grown so deep for so long.

Oh yeah and f^ck that guy who picked up the wrong jello, I can't believe he did that. I'll take being beaten by my mother with a shoe over that any day.

Be sarcastic all you want. You would be surprised at the excuses that WS have used to cheat on their spouses. Everything from "You didn't make the bed everyday" to "you use too many cheeses in your lasagna". There's those who also throw in the abuse and abandonment stuff. Bottom line Still doesn't justify our actions to cheat.

The consequence of neglecting your spouse too much is that they will step outside the marriage. I don't really care if that is the "party line" here or not. It's not to be defiant it's just a fact.

No it's really not. That is the surface answer. All the WW come here bitching and whining about how their husbands weren't paying enough attention, they didn't open up and talk to them, they work too much, wah wah wah. That is the SURFACE answer. The real answer is deeper, muuuuuch deeper than that. It requires digging, hard work, and dissecting yourself for the answers.

For you to expect your husband to get over your LTA instantly and deal with his issues? Completely irrational. And filing for divorce directly after Dday is common. It's called "covering your butt". That act alone is not abusive. He's completely within his rights.

Three things have to heal after infidelity. Him, you, and the marriage. You can't heal him, he can't heal you. You also can't push him to heal. He's on his own timeline. Just like you are. Only when the both of you start healing yourselves can the marriage move forward.

Samantha, IMHO, we both chose the hard way.

Deleted due to the Stop sign being added - it took a while to write that. Sorry.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 9:34 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Aubrey;

I'm not sure "I grew to hate my husband so i broke my marriage vows, because I felt that he didn't honor his" is surfacy. It's simple, elegant logic. It's A reason. Not a GOOD reason but its a SIMPLE explanation. The bad part --the worst part--about an A is making decisions unilaterally--robbing others of the truth. Cheating is wrong...but not necessarily unjustified. I cheated on a chemistry test once-- it was totally justified!

I am a BPD, NPD addict with abandonment issues is actually a very convoluted answer and may or may not be any more deep..it just sounds more medical...but it's all a kind of explanation. A justification, if you will. Like the kid who breaks the law because he's hungry and steals food. Sure you could go on a Paul Randian rampage that his real sickness is entitlement and a lack of personal responsibility, or you could take the Marxist approach and show a kid whose ability to be self responsible has been crushed by systems long in place before the crime. Or you can just forgive the hunger, forgive the crime, and let him off the hook and call it a day. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. I just don't think my explanation lacks depth...I've been doing "the hard work" on myself for years. At 46, I'm not sure more can be done. At some point it's just like...we're only human. And we do things for reasons.

As someone who's been cheated on, I sort of don't know if I buy that it's the absolute WORST thing you can do to someone.

Wow. I actually feel you here Regrette. I was cheated on in my first marriage and I didn't react like my BH or most BH's on here reacted AT ALL. Sure, it hurt some. My marriage ended and I moved on.

My BH recognized that I wasn't as hurt by being betrayed as most people would have been. He told me that even if he had an RA I still wouldn't feel what he's been feeling. He was right. My brokenness protected me from that kind of hurt.

I mean, in dating life if you lose someone's interest and they date another, you're sort of told to suck THAT up, right?

This is how I always saw things too. But I know now how wrong that was. Being left hurts. We're supposed to feel that pain, grieve the loss, then move on, NOT suck it up, which is what I always did.

My extreme fear of abandonment drove me to keep everyone at a certain distance so I couldn't get hurt. Problem with that is you don't get intimacy and love that way either.

I was convinced that my BH was emotionally abusive, I also felt he didn't really care about me either. Retrouvaille was an eye opener for both of us. He was protecting himself from me. We still have plenty of work to do but we have both been amazed by how wrong we both were about the others thoughts and feelings.

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.

I think I get this too Regrette. The M was intolerable to you before you cheated. You NEEDED it to change. Thing is you took a house in need of major renovation and blew it up. Now it's impossible to live in it while the work gets done. For rebuilding to take place the fires have to be put out and the wreckage has to be cleared away. If you want a chance to see if you can get the M you want you're going to have to do the hard work of recovery before you can start reconciliation. Recovery from the A has to happen first.

You were living with emotional and physical abuse (held against a wall with a finger in your cheek). You could have left, or filed for D. Your H would have then had the option to try to work with you on saving the M if he chose to. You chose to cheat instead and now you have to deal with the consequences of YOUR actions first. It sucks because you have been hurting for a long time and you are full of resentment.

You say you still want the marriage if he can change. You probably won't get the chance to find out if he can change unless you do some changing first.

I'm sorry you are in this mess. I'm sorry you're hurting. (((Regrette)))

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:11 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

From knightsbff (sorry dunno how to quote):

"I had myself convinced that my H didn't love me. I was never good enough. I felt judged all the time. I am so glad that I chose to do everything he needed me to so that he could give me a chance to R. I was wrong about how he saw me and we are now working on our martial issues. We love each other more than I ever thought possible and things continue to improve."

The problem here is I don't know what my H WANTS. He doesn't tell me. He just seems to want pleasant conversation about the kids and that's it. I provide him with that, and we joke and laugh about stuff and get along. I don't know what else to do. He seems happy and empowered. I am miserable and worried but hide it for good chunks of the day. He doesn't seem to want or need anything from me but compliance, pleasantries and leaving him alone to do his thing.

So I am back to how I always felt in the marriage, that this is all dandy in a cold sort of way but could be removed at any second. It is hard not to think about yourself when you don't know what the other person is asking of you.

I wanted to shake up the marriage but instead I put myself in the ultimate one down position. I was worried about feeling like a live in domestic and I created that for myself. I got the idea to confess from these websites. I can't for the life of me see the value in it, other than I get my comeuppance and I lose everything. What does he lose? A loyal wife? He didn't WANT me as a wife. He loses nothing and has only to gain by D.

All in all this is simply a "he's just not that into you" situation. The A is just a way for him to be more smug in his decision to abandon me. I'm sorry I am so defiant but it just feels like there is just so much hypocrisy in his stance as cuckold. To quote a great line from a movie where the character is caught having an affair: "I belong only to you but you don't want me?"

Regrette,

I have to admit that I am beginning to get very confused by your posts. First you say how much you wantbtobsave your M. But then turn around and talk about how you have been abused. You dig in your heels and state why you are justified in your A. I'm not sure I understand why you want to save this M. Honestly, I think that maybe that should be the first question to truly ask yourself. Why is this a M worth saving?

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.

Ok, so he needs to change in order to R, fair enough. But I'm pretty sure he would say the same about you. Look, I'm not going to weigh in on whether or not your husband is abusive or even an irritating asshole, I don't know him. And I don't know your history. All I have to go on is the information you give. But I don't even need to know your story to understand a few bits and pieces about you because you are a WW. I know you needed validation, I know you feel you weren't getting it, and I know that you found ways to justify your behavior. The thought process that led you down the path telling yourself that sleeping with another man was "OK" is what you need to be focusing on here. You have been in IC for years yet you aren't addressing these issues? If you know what your issues are, what are you doing to fix them? Based on your exchanges here, it feels like you still have a lot of progress to make. And because of that, your BH may have filed for D because he sees that there is not much left to save.

I am extremely pro R, but I have seen stories here where I sit back and wonder if D isn't the best answer. And if you as the wayward spouse can't seem to come up with any niceties about your BH or your M, I wonder.

The problem here is I don't know what my H WANTS

Have you thought to ask? I mean really sit down with him and discuss what each of you want out of all this? One thing I have taken from all of this is that when I don't know something I need to ask directly. Rarely when I just make an assumption had I been right. I always tended to expect the worse from people. Maybe if you actually sat down with him and had a heart to heart without walls and defenses the two of you could start going somewhere.

Eggshelz that is an eggcellent question (sorry!)

It came up in MC, and I dunno why I am so ambivalent. But I know for sure it's not because I'm rewriting history..my resentment was in place wayyyy before. But again I'm not here to defend a position I believe 100% to be true.

It's a funny thing about the subtle daily eroding abuses that are sort of the cliche marital construct. Archie Bunker and Dingbat, The Honeymooners, the lady I saw at the grocery store the other day hammering emasculating, eviscerating statements at her H over freaking groceries. No respect. It's unreal what so many endure, and much of it can be brushed away as "dysfunction that works," or adorably abusive. But it's damaging nonetheless. If you want to remain damaged great, but some don't.

Also within all the stereotypes described above, can be found tender moments of love. This is the modern paradox of the sexes...in some ways we are ok with being clubbed on our way to being dragged into the cave, in some ways we are not. We can blame feminism, patriarchy, narcissism, addiction. But the bottom line is "who needs it." when I ask my H, very directly and simply, why we can't have more sex I don't need to hear it's my "middle aged woman insecurity," I just don't. I simply like sex. This idea is so radical, whole syndromes and hidden agendas are tied to women who seek it. The therapy industry is no exception.

So..who needs it. Marriage? Certainly not me. I hate almost everything about it. But my kids need it. And we are great coparents who can fill a room with love when children are about. It didn't used to be that way, but somewhere along the line we became punching bags to each other and it was indisputably sucky from then on. Bad habits. Bad, gender specific habits from poor conditioning. Who knows if that's worth saving.