SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh you all are making me laugh and think and go hmmmm... thank you all for the input.

Today I had a great session with my IC, she's been following the story with Firehouse Guy with interest and caution.

We talked about what am I getting out of it? Why even go there? Why am I minimizing or discounting the flags, be they yellow or red?

I'm craving the intimacy, the connection. And I'm getting it. It's not the sex act that's driving me crazy and keeping me coming back for more. So maybe calling him an F-buddy is a misnomer. It's the warm smiles, the belly laughs, the long firm embrace, the random mid-day texts, and the long conversations getting to know each other better, sharing and listening. You know, the early romance of dating and the quality time and attention of a partner.

So that's my why. I haven't messed up my healing (yet) going there. 2 years of S with some really firm NC is a pretty good break from my M and bullshit STBXWHNPDPAFTG. The legal stuff is slower than the emotional stuff at this point, so I don't feel like I'm completely stupid to be "going there" in dating before the ink is on the D.

My concerns and why I've been posting here is his entanglements, and my worry that I will be really disappointed wanting to make this more than it can be, and be hurt, heartbroken, and set back. My concerns are that he's got issues that I have no control over that make him unavailable for developing a healthy new relationship that is genuine, clean, committed, etc.

Her advice is that I do something that might seem really odd: compartmentalize. If I am getting intimacy and connection, and I can stay focused on what I have JUST RIGHT NOW and not try to carry this relationship forward into the future in my head or in my words or in my actions... if I can be present and soak up the positives... then I can put him in a little room and when it's time to play we open the door and go outside and play. And then when recess is over we go to our separate rooms again.

And I can wait and watch and see what happens with his housing situation and what he says to Dog Lady and whether he attempts to integrate me into his life or keep me in my own little room too.

If he makes no moves to have a talk with Dog Lady or to introduce me to his friends, wont engage in public displays of affection, wont have me over for dinner with her present, or decides he can't tell her "I no longer agree to the previously agreed upon house rules" then by his actions I know all I need to know.

not being able to stay at your man's house? And it's not because of kids? How can that be okay? This dude *needs* to sort that. Because if he can't, that to me is a red flag. Not a cheating red flag, an unwillingness to be in a relationship red flag because he's using this barrier to protect himself and make if impossible to fully commit.

Thank you, Cayc, I agree totally.

I'm curious how you've known him so well for ten years but you're just finding out all of this now.

You agreed to go out for dinner with him even though you thought he was still in a relationship, right? What made that OK for you?

So he and I have been interacting with each other several times a year due to regular ongoing projects between my NGO and his Govt agency. We talk, we are friends. He learned I was S shortly after I moved out - that was 2 years ago. Since I was sharing a bit about me, I inquired of his life, as friends do. I am terrible with names so I forgot Dog Lady's name and asked "And how are things with your sweetie and house in Dog Town? And the first thing out of his mouth was "You mean "Dog Lady"? She's not my sweetie, but it's fine. We are doing X with house in Dog Town - I've been working on the well... yadda yadda"

So he revealed about 2 years ago that their relationship had changed. I think we had the same conversations again at the next project... he asked me how I was doing on my own at my new place, told me he was concerned for me. I did a lot of hiding of my depression but I told him where I was living was therapeutic for me, I again forgot her name asked about "his sweetie" and he again corrected me and grumbled about troubles he was having with some project and then we changed the subject. I didn't want to pry, or to open up too much at the time as I was pretty fragile and really keeping things light was best for me.

So the dinner "date" seemed... I dunno. OK? OK, but proceed with caution because I didn't really know details? I mean how much do you need to know about somebody before you go out for dinner? If he were a complete stranger that I had just met at the Govt. office would I need to know all the details of their personal life before grabbing a bite to eat after work? It was an invitation generated spontaneously... like around 2pm? Not planned.

I suppose I can rationalize that the story of them buying the house together made sense for them at the time. At the time, perhaps they were a couple working on their issues, probably, maybe, maybe not. His D has been stalled for years, maybe he made some progress on it back then and gave her hope? I don't want to speculate too much and just stick with what I know.

I think he's one of those folks who has managed to arrange his life into a scenario that's tailor-made for avoidance of intimacy. He was unhappy with wife #1, but instead of doing the right thing and confronting that and divorcing before getting involved with a new lurv, he went ahead and did that and let marriage #1 limp along to an almost-close.

Thirteen years is an awfully long time to be almost-divorced.

He sort of commits to Dog Lady but then that doesn't work out, but jeez, here he is stuck in a real estate situation he can't get out of and he's committed to being her Dog Minder until the house sells maybe never.

What incentive does she have to sell when she has a nice home, a guy who promises never to bring anyone to the house and looks after her pack when she travels?

There is so much unfinished business here it makes my head spin. I know we all have baggage, but real grown-up adults usually manage to tie up the loose ends before diving into exciting new adventures that require time, energy and cash investment.

You are making some great points FaithFool! Yes, I agree with all of them. The thing is that our relationship, whatever you want to call it, feels pretty intimate given all his Dog-awful baggage.

I don't understand why I'm OK with this. Basically, I'm OK with what we have FOR NOW. But I do know that I'm gonna have a really hard time if he chooses to maintain the status quo. If he decides that being enmeshed in all these other women's lives is the way he wants things to stay then he and I are going to have to part company.

I've got my own baggage and enmeshment to disentangle from. This stuff is hard. It's hard when you don't have anyone to help you, and it's hard when you have someone who GETS IT in a scary ugly too familiar way. Like Dude, we are so messed up can't we clean up our lives so we can move on?

Thanks everyone for the 2x4s. Swung and connected somewhere about the shoulders

I really need to protect myself, because I need to inch forward in life and finish my healing at a healthy pace. Maybe having so many barriers to complete intimacy is actually good for me? My history of relationships - diving in head first and being all in, all in, and committed - glued - to someone... I think I've had a total of 10 committed (at least in my head - I was never a player and always monogomous) relationships of some significant duration in my life and maybe 2 or 3 very short flings where I new it wasn't going to last. I've never really spent time just dating and jumping in the sack for some fun now and again.

Newlease if he chooses to stay enmeshed with Dog Lady and his D doesn't move forward.... it's not about me, is it? It's just him maintaining status quo. Maybe I'm just a passing fling for him, and he for me. So far that's what the evidence points to.

Patience, restraint, and self discipline are not strengths of mine. I'm not running away screaming in part because I feel I'm stretching and learning in a strange way.

So he and I have been interacting with each other several times a year due to regular ongoing projects between my NGO and his Govt agency. We talk, we are friends. He learned I was S shortly after I moved out - that was 2 years ago. Since I was sharing a bit about me, I inquired of his life, as friends do. I am terrible with names so I forgot Dog Lady's name and asked "And how are things with your sweetie and house in Dog Town? And the first thing out of his mouth was "You mean "Dog Lady"? She's not my sweetie, but it's fine. We are doing X with house in Dog Town - I've been working on the well... yadda yadda"

So he revealed about 2 years ago that their relationship had changed. I think we had the same conversations again at the next project... he asked me how I was doing on my own at my new place, told me he was concerned for me. I did a lot of hiding of my depression but I told him where I was living was therapeutic for me, I again forgot her name asked about "his sweetie" and he again corrected me and grumbled about troubles he was having with some project and then we changed the subject. I didn't want to pry, or to open up too much at the time as I was pretty fragile and really keeping things light was best for me.

He is still seeing Dog Lady...

-t2g

I too think he is still with dog lady and is cheating. Unless and until you hear it from her that they are not together, I wouldn't trust him. Too much doesn't add up. I kind of disagree with your counselor. You can save yourself a lot of hurt by being cautious and finding out the truth sooner rather than later. Good luck.

(((hb kk)))

Sorry about the 2x4s, those of us who have BTDT are just standing on the sidelines and trying to throw up caution barriers! We truly are just trying to save you from some hurt that we have been through already. If you can compartmentalize this, then more power to you. I can't do that. I tried to, but it just didn't work for me.

I was relating my history as a cautionary tale. I didn't even post about it at the time, because I knew somewhere deep down that I would get 2x4s telling me to cut him loose and I just didn't want to. Everyone offers advice based on their history and perceptions.

I wish you well in your healing journey.

NL

[This message edited by Newlease at 8:36 AM, January 10th (Friday)]

I think men like him tend to sniff out vulnerable individuals like yourself and it can be thrilling for them to make that conquest.

Once the thrill of the chase subsides, it probably won't be so much fun anymore and he'll get bored with you like he did with the rest of them.

But you seem to have a great handle on rationalizing it in your head, and with an IC cheering you on and urging you to just stick it in a box, you're well on your way to whatever it is that's waiting for you.

I would go no further with this without a face to face conversation with Dog Woman. But that's just cautious old me.

Enjoy the ride.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 12:26 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

So....you are justifying being an OW.

Girl...get back on the bus.

k9

Her advice is that I do something that might seem really odd: compartmentalize. If I am getting intimacy and connection, and I can stay focused on what I have JUST RIGHT NOW and not try to carry this relationship forward into the future in my head or in my words or in my actions... if I can be present and soak up the positives... then I can put him in a little room and when it's time to play we open the door and go outside and play. And then when recess is over we go to our separate rooms again.

This won't work, regardless of his status with Dog Lady. This is an FWB situation your IC is describing. Compartmentalizing. Putting things in separate boxes. Keeping yourself emotionally detached IN CASE it doesn't work out romantically. FWB situations rarely work without someone having feelings/wanting more, and you already admitted that you want MORE:

Clearly I am wanting more than that. Am I headed for heartbreak again? I've never been one to do things light. Serial monogamy, with me diving in head first into each new relationship FAST and not really taking time to let things unfold slowly.

Why would you settle for FWB (because face it- he's too enmeshed with Dog Lady AND wrapping things up with his D) when you want more?

An aside: I'm sorry, but the *mumble mumble* "we're not together" speil over the years then quickly changing the subject to a work project, coupled with their history (both romantic and platonic) AND his unwillingness to rock the boat by telling her he wants sleepovers with you just gives me pause. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's more to this story. I just agree with k9. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be mean.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 1:00 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

I'm curious about STDs. The more I read and hear, it seems like it's becoming riskier out there. Is this something you and he talked about, particularly because you and he aren't exclusive at this point, right?

Also, fwiw, I don't like your ic's advice. I've thought about it several times today (I read your post this morning), and I keep coming back to this. It seems like advice that looks good on paper, so to speak, but doesn't play out so well IRL. The biggest reason it doesn't play IRL is because of what abbycadabby said above ^^^^. I guess you probably know that already, but might like to risk it anyway.

My sense of it is that he and you are developing something together (whatever that is) that brings with it a higher emotional risk than you are accounting for. There are just WAY too many issues at play here, such as:

Is he still sleeping with dog woman? (Truthfulness concern)

Is he hiding you from dogwoman? (Fidelity concern)

Is he sleeping with anyone else? (STD concern)

Do you and he want different things out of this? (Heartbreak concern). Here's what you are getting out of it, but what about him? I don't know. I'm just asking.

It's not the sex act that's driving me crazy and keeping me coming back for more. So maybe calling him an F-buddy is a misnomer. It's the warm smiles, the belly laughs, the long firm embrace, the random mid-day texts, and the long conversations getting to know each other better, sharing and listening. You know, the early romance of dating and the quality time and attention of a partner.

I'm also curious why you say that everyone here is making you laugh? I couldn't quite figure that out. Is it everyone just,being so hyper vigilant?

Oh you all are making me laugh and think and go hmmmm... thank you all for the input.

I am typing on my phone so this will be shorter...

We had a long talk last night about Dog Lady.

He is stuck financially with this house. He wants to sell as soon as the market allows.

He has slept with her once since they bought the house in 2008. They bought it after their romantic relationship ended and the sex was drunken and regretful and 3 years ago. He has not had sex with anyone since.

Two big changes have happened in his life in the last month. He is starting a new job and he had me arrive in his life unexpectedly.

He wasnt *ready* for a new relationship because of his housing witth Dog Lady and unfinished D. And he wasn't looking for trouble - he wasn't dating.

At this point I am planning to follow my IC's advice and forget about a future with him for now. One day at a time. I will wait to see what transpires when Dog Lady returns next week. If he has the guts to disclose that he has started to develop a new relationship with someone else then that might change my attitude. If he doesn't want her to find out about me then the FWB will have to end.

Enjoy the day-to-day relationship for what it's worth. You never know how it might turn out and it's better than second-guessing what might have been.

The bus is filled with people dying to get off (literally).