SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks a LOT!! Jack. I am glad that somebody understands.

I have had sex with my wife 4 times since D day. After each time, I felt ashamed and dirty. The thought of another man being in her, and desiring her, JUST LIKE I DID, made me feel soiled. And my need for her and my need for sex makes me feel ashamed. The idea of having a night to JUST be a man with a woman, no strings, no thoughts of the affair, sounds pretty good.

The idea of having a night to JUST be a man with a woman, no strings, no thoughts of the affair, sounds pretty good.

Then divorce your WIFE and go for it. Are you married or not? Did the vows say, "Unless you do something bad to me... then I get to go out and have just one eensy weensy, "just a" night of fun too." Or did you make a promise that day? I didn't put any escape clauses in mine that I can recall. I'm not in control of FWH but I know who I am and what my commitments are regardless of his stupid decisions.

Nobody's saying you don't deserve the freedom of boning down with whomever you choose if that's what you need in this whole world. We're just saying to do it with honor. Either reconcile with your wife or cut her loose and go party. You can't have both and say that the man in the mirror has integrity. Period.

Because we hear it all the time in here.... Cheaters cheat because they have something lacking in themselves!!

If you want a RA then that indicates to me that you, as well as your WW, have issues you need to deal with.

If a WS doesn't do the work to heal themselves they continue with recidivistic tendencies.

THAT is why we advocate IC on here. My advice to you is to man up and D your wife before going to have sex with your WW's 'flirty friend' as your reasoning for wanting to have an A are as lame as every other cheaters!

Sorry to be harsh but a RA is just another excuse to go do something bad!

And yes- some of us on here have had people let us know they'd be a willing partner in crime!

My FWH screwed a colleague but guess what? That doesn't give me a free pass to go even the score just because I know a couple of guys who'd be up for that!

If you're thinking about what it feels like to be with and inside another woman that's something you need to resolve as that isn't there because your wife cheated on you.... It's there because you want to have sex with someone other than your wife'!

I has hurt real bad by my FWH but the thought of having sex with someone else repulsed me then and does now. And that's because I've got integrity.

Mrs. Doubtfire, please do not post on this thread, if you are going to be offensive.

Jrazz, If I knew what decision to make regarding my wife and R or D, I would already have done something about it. The reason I am here talking about it, is to get some ideas and advice, politely given. I haven't decided to have sex with anyone, and therein lies the problem. If I cannot overcome my bad feelings about sex with my wife, then R will be impossible. This is something I feel that she should make every effort to help with.

BDell. I'm sorry if you think my post was offensive. What I have said is fact and truth.

Any excuse that tries to justify an A is 'right' is just wrong!

If I cannot overcome my bad feelings about sex with my wife, then R will be impossible. This is something I feel that she should make every effort to help with.

Yes, she should. It sounds like this is the issue you most want to solve. How is she helping right now? Is she trying? Is this a period of time where the pain will come in waves and the biggest struggle is withstanding it? Or are you struggling with someone who is unremorseful? That will determine R, as it takes two people to be in…

Right now, it sounds as though you're in limbo. Limbo has so many gradations within it. In some you're closer to R, hoping that both people will commit, and working toward a sign. Somewhere in the middle you're struggling with your feelings, not sure if you can commit or not, not sure if it's right for you. And another gradation is near the end, where unless there's some kind of miracle, you're heading for D, or possibly waiting until D conditions are more favorable. And everything in between.

Where in there, in either R or limbo, does having sex with a party outside your marriage make sense?

I haven't decided to have sex with anyone, and therein lies the problem.

Unless D is on the table (and preferably in motion with the agreement that the marriage is FINISHED), why is this an option? Why is it an option to brand yourself with 'Cheater' for the rest of your life?

If you cannot feel good about having sex with your wife, and you're thinking that not deciding to have sex with someone else is a problem (or that deciding to have sex with someone else is the solution), then what does that say about your marriage? What kind of marriage would that be, going forward? How would it get better?

I have a few thoughts pop up when I read all the responses here.

1. Is it realy cheating if Everything is in the open? You are not lying to your partner, boing behind their back etc. You are stating it beforehand and your partner is free to decide to stay or go Beforehand.

2. BDell has never stated that he would do it because of revenge. So RA is the wrong terminology don't you Think? He has also stated that it would be in the oppen, se Point 1.

3. I get the Point that a revenge affair behinde the back of your WS is not a good thing if you are trying to R. But what BDell is talking about is something different. I Think BDell would be better served with the discussion shifting focus a bit to what he is thinking about.

One of the major "issues" here is Bdell has a wayward wife who, according to many many BS's here, and specifically BH's, is exhibiting exemplary and profoundly remorseful behavior. Many BS's have commented on Bdell's other threads how they "wish their wayward" was like his is.

This can of worms can't be unopened. And regardless of whether Bdell or any of us feel he does or doesn't deserve a freebie (and hell, why just stop at one?) his Wayward wife will have HER feelings about this if it comes to pass.

I'm guessing it will change EVERYTHING about the reconciliation dynamic in their relationship. JMHO.

Revenge Affairs are bad, because they are affairs. I get the idea, that you have somehow convinced yourself that sleeping with another woman will bring you closer to your wife. It won't. You're saying some pretty Foggy things... Making the kind of justifications that waywards use.

go visit the mad hatter forum in "I can relate" and see how that all worked out.

my husband and I are mad hatters. It almost destroyed us both. We both agreed we should have just left first. although I am no longer that person I still cheated on my husband. That is something I own for the REST OF MY LIFE. Don't you want to be the person that can say I HONOR VOWS.

Im curious..why did this OW think it was ok to talk to you about sex? And why did she think it was ok to tell you she wanted to have sex with you? This isn't casual conversation.

It sounds like you have already crossed boundaries. You have talked about your marital problems with this woman, and the two of you have discussed having sex with each other. Sounds like an EA to me.

This is a woman who is willing to spread her legs for a married man...to help him get back at his wife for cheating on him? That is not a friend.

What about STD's? have you discussed when the last time she was tested? Has she had sex with anyone since then? Oh, I know, you would wear a condom...but condoms don't stop all STD's. Are you going to kiss OW? Have oral? Then you will be exposed to the possibility of getting an STD. Then, in turn, you will expose your wife.

You aren't very far out from dday. You are looking at all of this through shit colored glasses. Once you have had the benefit of time,you will have some clarity. And, hopefully, you will realize not breaking YOUR vows was the best choice.

Also...this woman who you has offered to help you out by having sex with you..is in NO way a friend of your marriage. You need to NC her. I know you don't know if you want to R yet. But you can not eat cake. You can not keep your WW in limbo, while having an EA/talking with another woman about having sex.

We all get that you're angry. But no one is going to support you having an RA.

Having the moral high ground is very cold comfort, right now.

It sure is, but I'll tell you that I've seen many a member that fall off that high ground for a RA and then their personal pains of dealing with that action sure lasted much longer than my time with that very cold comfort. The years of pain and disappointment that those folk dealt with and continue to deal with is not something that I wish for you or anyone to deal with.

Bdell, you are in a world of hurt and pain. I think that you should be careful of anyone right now that isn't your wife and is hinting, suggesting, or pushing for you to get involved with them.

I get it. First thing I thought of was hooking up with a guy I only see once a year at a work related event that always flirts with me.

However, I know that's not going to do anything to help me heal, and I'm not a Ho.

She's a free spirit? Maybe she's got a disease. Maybe she will get pregnant. You think it would be just a one time thing and you can move on.

Think of the worst case scenario ... it could happen. Hard to R with your wife if you're paying CS or having a new baby spend weekends with you.

Justdesserts, you make some good points. I don't want to slam the door on reconciliation, so I probably wouldn't have sex with this Lady until I either separate from my wife, with the intention of divorce, or actually file.

Confused615, you are making a lot of assumptions about my contact with this woman, and you know the old saying about assumptions, don't you?

Rachelc, This is one thing I'm sure of. When I found out that my wife had an affair, I felt that nullified my vows, to a certain extent. I will keep them only so long as she exhibits remorse and self improvement.

A few words about this Lady. First, she is not a "Ho', she simply has a different perception of sex. She is a part-time adult model, and swinger, and views sex as a recreational activity. She is also a very hard working , honest person, who has been with the company for several years, and is considered a wonderful employee. I haven't discussed either the affair or my marriage with her, and how she found out about them , I haven't a clue. I am beginning to think that women have some kind of Radar that detects men having marital problems. I also am beginning to suspect that my SIL hasn't kept her mouth shut.

She views sex as a "recreational activity"..and that includes married men?

All assumptions aside...how do you know she wants to have sex with you?

I am beginning to think that women have some kind of Radar that detects men having marital problems.

Maybe not so much.

I also am beginning to suspect that my SIL hasn't kept her mouth shut.

Much more likely.

Another reason not to do it is because you want to be able to go forward in the future saying you never had sex outside of marriage. If you meet a nice person once you're divorced, and the topic of cheating comes up, you want to be able to say (authentically) "No, I never had sex with anyone else while married, not even after she did it to me." If you do the RA, you're going to have to qualify it with all sorts of shit, like "Oh, well we were TECHNICALLY married, but separated, but she did it to me first..." and so on and so forth....or you could just lie, but that's no way to start a new relationship. Maybe this new person will take your reasons at face value, or maybe they'll mentally dismiss you as someone who cheats and makes excuses....to use a sports phrase:

Don't ever leave the game in the hands of the refs.

You can win this game by sticking this shit out for a while longer, after which point you can roll in the hay with whoever you want, free and clear.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 10:27 AM, January 25th (Saturday)]

I know that many of you are ready to condemn me, but I also would like to point out that I am simply asking about adultery related issues and questions. When I have decide what to do, I will do it. Right now, I am learning about RA's and sex outside of marriage. Tommorrow I will maybe learn about rebuilding trust, or how to aid my wife with her self examination, or about how to restart intimacy, or any number of issues.

I am not in limbo, I am in the educational phase. When I stop asking questions, then it will be time to act.

BTW, I would again like to thank all of you who have posted. I appreciate the different POV's, when expressed in a courteous manner.

[This message edited by Bdell at 10:28 AM, January 25th (Saturday)]

The idea of having a night to JUST be a man with a woman, no strings, no thoughts of the affair, sounds pretty good.

I get that. Really I do.

But you can't 'just be a man with a woman' other than your W, because you're married, and you've got commitments to other people.

And you most definitely can't 'have no thoughts of the affair' by having an RA - those thoughts are with you all the time, as you attest.

So for you, the RA is bad because it simply won't do for you what you want it to do.

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You get to choose how to respond to your W's A. Even if she's the most exemplary fWS in history, you can choose to D with your head held high.

If her A is a deal killer for you, that's OK.

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I'm really sorry you're having difficulty with sex, but what you describe is something that is your issue, and only you can solve it. You can choose from many good options, and if you're having trouble choosing, you can get help - IC or talking with a pastor is likely to lead to a solution in less work time than working through the issues on SI.

Of course, we're available 24 X 7, and IRL counselors are not....

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What you're going through is common. Everybody solves it one way or another. You will, too.

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I'm curious about these questions:

How can you justify an A, even if it's an RA, if you won't excuse cheating in someone else?

Are you holding other people to a standard higher than the standard to which you hold yourself?

And if you D and meet a woman who had an RA, wouldn't that raise a big red flag for you?

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:34 AM, January 25th (Saturday)]