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h hooked up w my friend and carried on a two yr A. She baited him, set it up, and primed him. He easily jumped on board and sold me out. She made me out to be this bad wife, etc

Now, I'm 2 months Post DD. He states his life was at a low. The economy was bad, felt like not doing well at work, his appearance etc and she pumped up his self esteem making him feel relevant and desirable.

Well, now I have NO respect for him. At the time and before the A, I held him in high regards ethically, morally and as a husband and father. Opposite of what he tht which led him to the A. Now, knowing he let a pig talk trash about me, make me out to be a bad wife, etc I will NEVER forget that. I will never feel like he is an honorable man.

What does that mean? His self esteem will b just like before (ironically when I did respect him) and he will likely seek validation from another pig which will lead to another A.

So knowing this, why do I bother with R?

Why do I bother R?

Can't answer that for you.

But would like to comment in your husbands fAP's motives and actions by means of relating my experience.

My wife's fAP wrote and gave her poetry within the first 6 "just friends" meetings . He would listen to my wife confess she felt bad about them meeting....he would agree with her but said many things that minimized her feelings...so both your husband and my wife were not " as intentional" at the beginning of their respective affairs as there fAP's...... But they knew it was wrong .....still contributed to producing the fruits that adultery produces.

In my case, my wife took her A underground....while in weekly MC and IC, her sister as accountability partner, witnessing the extreme pain I was in, and saw the affects her actions were having on our girls.....she was he'll vent in tending the "adultery tree"......even if her AP was the "master gardener".

Why have I chosen to offer R to my wife? Because I saw her trying to change and repent. The singular act of adultery, as it turns out, was not a deal breaker for me. But for 12? Months or so my decision was basically "not to D".

At 3 months out I would encourage you to not press yourself on R.

Now, if my wife chooses poorly as she did in the past....our M will end. Learning to R does not mean to be a doormat or reduce expectations.

My wife's fAP found another woman within 2 months.....his wife apparently fine with this, he obviously is.

I suspect your husbands fAP would do the same thing.

Yes .....it totally sucks that that was the type of man my wife choose to gave an A with, unprotected sex with......but don't you think that is the type who engage in this? What separates our spouses from their fAP is their choices.

Our fWS did make some terrible, destructive choices in the past. They are choosing differently now, which is why we can choose to stay. Nice thing about choices ..... We can choose.

We can't choose for our spouses.....they have to do that for themselves. I think my wife choose adultery rather than D or MC, in part, because it appeared she didn't have to make a choice......she really thought she could have and keep both ....at least in the beginning.

Kicker is....our spouse chose to marry us and all that comes with it . They threw that away in its entirety when they choose adultery. Really, my wife's A was the fruit of how she operated in life .... Including our M.

I am NOT offering R to my wife to get our old M back....it is in the landfill where it belongs...... I offer it so that we can see if we can nurture a M that produces the healthy fruit God designed it to.

17 months, $4000 worth of therapy, and lots of work and praying.....and I am hopeful this is possible with my wife.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:13 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

I do believe people can change. Perhaps you do, too. R could give him the chance to do the work and prove himself, and he may earn back respect from you, although he will never be the same man in your eyes. For me, the man I thought WH was, did not exist. The one I see now is off the pedestal and just a regular human. Our relationship now is more authentic and honest because of it. I can see some glimmers of respect for how hard he is working and the changes he is making.

Do I trust him? No. But each day he proves himself, gives him the chance from me to do the same tomorrow. Unfortunately R is a long journey and we don't really know where we'll end up. You take it one step at a time and in the moment.

There is risk involved, that WH will not make the changes, or will cheat again. We can't control their choices, we can only control us. I read once that to have self esteem, one needs to do esteemable things. Your WH will need to do this for himself, instead of seek his self esteem elsewhere. If he does the hard work of trying to right his wrong, that would certainly be an esteemable thing.

I suggest that you pull back a bit emotionally, and work on you. IC, being kind to you, seeing a lawyer to find out your options; get to a place where WH is an option, not a necessity, where you know you will be ok without him if he does not change.

I am sorry we are in this position. I wish you all the best.

I know I'll be fine without him. That's not a concern. Luckily I'm a smart, resourceful woman who NEVER allowed herself to depend on a man for reasons like this. I saw too many women get screwed over after giving up their careers.

I'm not M to him bc I have to be. I'm with him bc I truly loved him. Respected him as a man, a father and a person.

Now I have no respect for him since he became everything he hated in a person and verbalized before.

I'm M to him now bc I'm in limbo. He's a good dad. He's a hard working man. He WAS a good husband. I'm in limbo and not D now, bc I'm seeing if he proves himself before I give up. Seeing if he is a bad person or chose bad things. I'm holding on as long as I feel he is trying to change. Until something clicks pushing me a certain way, I stay in limbo.

I have very little hope true R is possible at this point. He wants to try no matter what.

I just can see him becoming just like his dad. Repeat affairs. One sign he is looking at another woman, commenting about or even thinking about one.... I'm out. And so will his relationship w his kids. Harsh reality.

((Hatemyhusband))

This is exactly why almost every single WS needs to do some heavy lifting in IC to get to the bottom of their issues and correct them. If they remain broken, why wouldn't history repeat itself, really?

Getting validation from external sources seems to be an issue for him, from what you've written. It could be he has no good means of SELF esteem, why? And what work is he going to do to help build that.

You ask a very important question of yourself. If he remains as unhealthy as he was when he had an A, why do you want a relationship with him?

Blahh.....sorry you are struggling, but good growth can almost always follow a struggle if you choose wisely.

Until D-Day, I respected my W and would have bet anything I had and could borrow on her moral integrity, truthfulness, faithfulness, and competence.

For the first couple of years, give or take, after D-Day, I was very sad because she gave up my respect on all counts. Now, 3+ years out, she's won back most of it, and I don't think the journey is close to being over.

I believe the best defense against cheating is being able to distinguish internal issues from external ones and knowing that only she can solve her external issues. In other words, nothing anyone else can do can solve her (or my or your or their) low self-esteem issues.

Part of the importance of IC for the WS, IMO, is to learn how to resolve the internal issues, and my W is clearly doing that. She's reclaiming herself, and she's becoming better than she ever was.

R is paying off very well for me, and I think it will pay off for any couple committed to doing the work.

Going into R, you can't predict how it will end, so IMO you just have figure out what you want, take a calculated risk about your WS, and make what seems to be the best decision you can for yourself.

I'm obviously biased toward R, but if you don't think your H will or can do the work, R would be the wrong choice for you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:35 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

I was in a similar situation and I had the same concern. This past May our marriage was okay and I also held WH in high regard. What I didn't realize, however, is that he was stressed out at work and worried about finances. He never talked to me about that sort of thing, he internalized it all. So here came older COW. She pumped up his ego with a lot of "you are amazing", "your wife is so lucky", and "you aren't like most men". She flirted with him and told him all about her woes which he gladly extended a shoulder to cry on for. She most definitely pursued him but he was very willing.

He's always suffered from low self-esteem and needs constant validation. Once we dug a little and figured all this out I too thought....well if that's the case then NOW would be the time he is most vulnerable to a full blown A. I definitely wasn't given him ego kibbles anymore. BUT he is aware now that he is vulnerable and why he did what he did. He is also very aware of the consequences. He saw just how close he came to losing everything again. I also think he is on his best behavior for now. I could be wrong and he could be out doing who knows what but I really feel like he is actually dealing with his shit without the crutch of ego kibbles for now. I hope I am right about that.

What I am trying to say is, I don't think it's a bad thing that they are in a rough spot and vulnerable. The biggest indicator of change is how they are coping with all that at the moment. I think most affairs are a product of horrible coping mechanisms. If he is aware of that fact and is seeking healthier ways to cope then that is a promising sign.