SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When that craziness in October (that ended in some people leaving) was unraveling, I remember posting a comment in one if UO's thread stating that I almost felt like I was being attacked. I didn't really think anything of that statement until I got a couple of PMs. DS asked me to elaborate a bit and I realized that I had chosen less than perfect words to describe what I was feeling. It's sometimes hard to convey sentiment on these threads without the help of non-verbal communication.

On this or other forums, words are just words. Exaggeration for effect can be lost in translation. Holden Caulfield is bored to death, so should we hold a funeral? I think it's important to really consider what you post and how it may be interpreted. Nowadays, I try to stay on point when posting, rather than using hyperbolic verbiage to try to force a point. Not sure I'm successful, but I'm mindful.

Also, thank you for this WS forum and the safety here. You guys are the best.

Late to the discussion, but as an old timer I'd like to provide some info to you about how it was when I came here. When I joined SI almost 10 years ago, Wayward was not a protected forum. NOT PROTECTED. That meant that WSes who came here for help took a beating from all sides. That's what it was like when I got here. It was freaking HARD. Recovery is hard in the best of circumstances, but it was just difficult to hear the help being offered through the hurtful noise.

DS and MH implemented changes over the following year or so to prevent attacks on the WSes who came to SI to work on themselves. Something interesting began to happen then. WSes who were trying to help each other were frequently shouted down by hurting and angry BSes before. After the forum was protected and more heavily moderated, WSes filled that "get a grip" void. I know my posting style was sometimes blunt and sometimes not. As a FWS, it didn't come from a place of judgment or feeling superior. It came from not wanting another hurting person to make the same wrong and painful choices I did.

That's the thing... we don't say this stuff to be mean or to judge. We say it because we know your pain and we hurt for you. I said it because I don't want another soul to be as stupid as I was. I desperately wanted you to GET IT so you could get on with your healing.

Wishing peace and healing for all of you- and saying thanks once again to DS and MH for being such a huge part of my recovery. Love you guys!

"Grow the fuck up" . I just finally shared this site with my husband and he read this thread and said, no thanks. Don't blame him. I was asked not to post here because I was too raw and I was actually supportive. I'm now reading people compared to rapists. I was raped. My husband is not a rapist. I've read a few posts that calmly ask why all the hyperbole and suggesting it may be for other motives and those people were shredded. Why? It's a very legitimate point. There are several posters I read here that just scream validation. The over the top condescension. That's not tough love. That's not hard truth. That's LOOK AT MEEEEE. Let me post several threads in case you missed me. The post that may have saved my marriage was understated truth from hard experience. No self aggrandizing. No look at me. Just simple I needed to fix myself and I'm doing that. As someone said. Yelling in the wind does nothing. You lose far more than you'll ever reach and about the most you end up with is a sychophantic club. Sounds pretty damn close to the reason many join here. Sad.

I go to dinner and come back to this. :)

1. Rape victims...I was making an analogy about my experiences in communicating. I agree that this isn't a professional therapy site. And for those that think I was deflecting...I wasn't, I was trying to explain where I was coming from.

2. No one is arguing against the content. The content is good. I like the content.

I occasionally think the style that the content is delivered in could be improved upon. That is all.

THE STYLE. No one is stopping you from being rude but don't grasp your pearls and drag out the "You just don't like what I am saying" defense when you get called out on it.

Let me post several threads in case you missed me.

I'd be interested to see the posts in which "shredding" takes place. I'm here volunteering as often as I can, and I must have just missed those.

That's the thing... we don't say this stuff to be mean or to judge. We say it because we know your pain and we hurt for you. I said it because I don't want another soul to be as stupid as I was. I desperately wanted you to GET IT so you could get on with your healing.

I feel like I've said this in just about every one of these off-angle discussions. 99.9% of the members aren't here looking for puppies to kick. They messed up, got help, and want to pass it along. Whether it's a FWS who saw the light of day, or a BA who found the strength to cut their codependent ties and make their own path. The harshness, the "judgment" that so many perceive as nasty is in truth just projection from someone who is trying to help you. Like Fallen said, they're begging you not to make the same mistakes that you did. Maybe they don't GET you. Maybe they don't know what you go through day in and day out and all the subtle differences that make your situation unique. That's why, you may recall, most of these sycophantic Kool-Aid drinking assholes who spend time away from their families and leisure activities to type words online to others in pain keep saying over and over, "TAKE WHAT YOU NEED. LEAVE THE REST."

ETA: I realize my tone is a bit ironic here. I'll admit, my feelings are hurt at being called a sycophant, and I know too many good souls here who donate their time to keep guns out of people's mouths. Despite some hurtful things being said here, I'm still glad for the thread. Taking what I need. Leaving the rest.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 1:38 AM, February 9th (Sunday)]

"I'd be interested to see the posts in which "shredding" takes place. ". This thread. The only hugs I've seen are the "you're so great". The few members that were not in line were certainly not supported or even debated.

The fact you made my post an attack on you and went off the rails with it is odd. Why personalize? I've read a phrase on here very often stated. If something makes you angry probably should look at it. Good suggestion. Here's another one. Just calm down. I'm leaving and you can go back to being safe. Relax.

I'm leaving and you can go back to being safe. Relax.

Ummm, did I just read of a BS leaving because she feels we WSs are being nasty to each other?

OK own up, who divided by zero?

Armageddon is upon us.

Ragnorok is here.

Chaos will now reign.

in other news:

The few members that were not in line were certainly not supported or even debated.

Personally I feel no need to support someone during a debate, who has an opposing opinion to mine, that would be ludicrous.

I reserve the right to debate the logic of their opinion while respecting their right to have it.

Also I thought we were debating

ETA: Clarification of 'opinions' and debating.

verb: debate; 3rd person present: debates; past tense: debated; past participle: debated; gerund or present participle: debating

1.

argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner.

"MPs debated the issue in the Commons"

synonyms: discuss, confer about, talk over, talk through, talk about, exchange views on, exchange views about, thrash out, argue, argue about, argue the pros and cons of, dispute, wrangle over, bandy words concerning, contend over, contest, controvert, moot;

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 7:56 AM, February 9th (Sunday)]

I'm a BS and really enjoy posting in the wayward forum because there is something uplifting for me to see people trying to heal themselves, their BS and their marriage. As a BS, I feel an obligation to self moderate my tone when posting in this forum. There are times I want to say wake the F up, but I take a less pointed approach because I think there are plenty of waywards tossing the needed 2 X 4's.

I'd like to take a stab at addressing this post by FacePunched because I think it is very important.

If, in life, you fail (or refuse; choose your own adventure) to accept the meaning and spirit behind what is being said in favor of the wrapping that it's enveloped in....then you might as well grab a Capri Sun and some orange slices and hit the sidelines, 'cuz it's going to be a loooooooong fútbol game (of life) for you.

If any of you have read some Stephen Covey, you might be familiar with this visual.

We, as human beings, have much more success and get greater results when we focus on our circle of influence. If we work on things that we can actually influence, we not only find we get results, but we find that the circle of influence grows to encompass more of our area of concern.

For the purposes of this thread, our circle of influence is "the message". And our area of concern is "the delivery".

Folks are saying "focus on the message". Others are saying "deliver it more nicely". I'd suggest that the part the receiver of the message has influence over is what they choose to focus on. If you participate in this forum focusing on what you can influence, actually looking for the meaning in the message, you are likely to be more successful. You can be concerned about about how that message is delivered, but it is unproductive. It isn't where the leverage lies.

Best luck to all that are trying to heal. It's hard work.

[This message edited by WarpSpeed at 7:30 AM, February 9th (Sunday)]

Now see I didn't think Jrazz went off the rails. Was she offended. Maybe. We're human. We are different and thank goodness. Debates would be boring if we all spoke or felt the same way.

When I am working (I am an HR manager) I have one tone. Its my job to be as impartial as possible.

On SI I offer my opinion, I don't get offended when a poster disagrees with me, I don't clutch my pearls and stomp off. I either continue to debate my point or I walk away. (I recognize when I am wasting my time because the OP won't hear me no matter what my tone or how many times I repeat myself).

In my sitch I do not get offended when a poster says I should do something. I am not wired that way. When I have been offered blunt advice I listened because it works for me. I might not have heard it otherwise.

don't grasp your pearls and drag out the "You just don't like what I am saying" defense when you get called out on it.

OTOH, the "your message is good, but your delivery sucks" argument is completely valid.

the most you end up with is a sycophantic club

If adhering to SI tenets such as..."No matter how crappy your M was, cheating was wrong! Seriously, even for you, no matter how special or unique you think your sitch was, cheating was selfish and shitty."...is sycophantic? Pass the MF'ing Kool-Aid.

Another thing, too, which I heard today related to tone of message: there is vast difference between how a person says, "Pass me a beer!" while hanging with friends and an individual says "Pass me a scalpel!!!" in the emergency room.

The idea is the same: I require that thing (you have).

This is not your friends living room. We're not kicking it. This is the ER. There's been an accident, and your soul or marriage is at risk of death...and so the tone is urgent and frenzied, because the longer the injury goes untreated, the higher the risk of mortality.

This is not your friends living room. We're not kicking it. This is the ER. There's been an accident, and your soul or marriage is at risk of death...and so the tone is urgent and frenzied, because the longer the injury goes untreated, the higher the risk of mortality.

Damn skippy, FacePunched.

Made the quote thread.

As a BS I have to say I'm thankful for the WS forum. It wasn't until after my life went to hell, and had been there for awhile, that I found SI. I don't recall were in my journey that I found SI but I do remember my bottom. My bottom in short, I trusted no one and I wanted nothing to do with women.

Perfect system? No. But you (general statement) can be damn sure we want the waywards who come here to feel safe and supported. Or at least learn the tools they need to heal and get through the shitstorm they created.

Today I can honestly agree with the forgoing quote and I'm glad the guides, mods and admins are here. It kept me in line when I first joined SI.

The benefit I get from the WS forum is realizing my own short comings and being able to face them. In challenging myself I have come to realize that I have no control over anything or anyone in my life. Its been a long journey but today I'm happy to say I have women in my life that I can call friends and know that is all they will ever be. I'm still not a trusting person but a little at a time I’m getting better.

I have not read all the threads in here but the ones I remember I am grateful to see the growth in. It gives me hope that no matter how messed up somebody’s life is, there is always the potential for growth and change. The ones that have chosen to work threw the crap, Excellent job keep going!!

This is not your friends living room. We're not kicking it. This is the ER. There's been an accident, and your soul or marriage is at risk of death...and so the tone is urgent and frenzied, because the longer the injury goes untreated, the higher the risk of mortality.

Great stuff, FP. An affair is, objectively, bad behavior. Behavior that is just as destructive to the offender as to the victim, if not more so. Anyone who gives a rip about you would be highly motivated to help you avoid repeating the behavior that has put your marriage in crisis mode.

Complaining about the tone in which a helpful and loving message is delivered on an infidelity website makes about as much sense as complaining about the brusque attitude of the doctor who tells you that unless you immediately start taking medication to control your high blood pressure and bad cholesterol, you'll likely be dead within a year.

The doc is your friend. The medicine is your friend. It's the cigarettes, booze, and greasy food that are not your friends, even if they give you lots of warm-and-fuzzies the whole time they are killing you.

Is your AP your friend? Friends don't destroy friends' marriages. Friends don't assist friends in the destruction of a two-parent home, or commit acts that cause children to suffer. Friends don't make friends feel horrible about themselves.

Friends don't let friends continue to engage in destructive, hurtful behavior or to carry on with mindsets that make that behavior likely to be repeated.

From my perspective, I see a lot of friends on SI. There's a reason I and so many BS's are drawn to the wayward forum. It's not just morbid fascination - there are a lot of wise, caring people here. It gives us hope.

I sincerely hope those that feel threatened by the perceived tone on this site, particularly this forum, tough it out and give it a chance. Or find similar help delivered in a way that you find digestible. Because there's a lot at stake.

I am one of the newbs. I lurked for a couple of months before I felt safe enough to post. I read nearly every day, and now I post fairly regularly. I think I learn something about myself every time I commit something to writing.

NativeAgain summed up the way that I feel:

This is a site for regular people who may or may not be trained in communication. There is tremendous diversity on this site and what works for one person may not work for another. So isn't it wonderful that there are so many different ways and communication styles that each member can add to the different threads so there is a greater chance that at least ONE of them will be something that the poster can draw from?

It helps me immeasurably that this forum is diverse. I see people with DDays around mine that are making the same discoveries that I am. Then I see vets who give me perspective, remind me that I am not getting the whole picture yet. I read people who talk like my therapists, asking questions. I read others who are direct. They remind me that my actions can have a raw, emotional response. Some people say things in ten words that I need 50 to express. They are all part of the spectrum that I have to understand.

As a newbie, I do have to admit that the first time someone disagreed with something I did or said, it gnawed at me for a while. I know it's nothing personal. They are just trying to help in the best way that they know how. Maybe it was right, maybe wrong. It's still a valid thought or emotion that I am better off for considering.

Thanks for this forum. Personally, its a great tool to make me a better person.

This is not your friends living room. We're not kicking it. This is the ER. There's been an accident, and your soul or marriage is at risk of death...and so the tone is urgent and frenzied, because the longer the injury goes untreated, the higher the risk of mortality.

*applause*!!!!!!

^^^^^^ I'll also agree with that, as a person whose worked in ER's, on fire lines, and in other disaster situations. Really, I am a pretty nice person who tries to be soft-spoken. But if you're standing in my way while I'm running a woman bleeding with a placenta previa and no fetal hearbeat into surgery, or if the martingale on the dolphin striker has parted and we now have people in the way of a potential falling mast, you are going to see a very narrowly focused, war-bitch from hell, moving your ass or walking over your head. In the nicest way possible, of course.

If you are going to the doctor for a yearly physical and you want to be real specific about male or female doctor, cheerful, young, old, quick, fatherly, then go for it. In the course of your health, its probably not going to matter much. If you have Stage 4 cancer and your prognosis is that you need immediate surgery or to pick out your casket, you better concentrate on finding the best darned surgeon that you can no matter what sex, nationality, personality, or other type that they are, and get down to the business of saving your life.

What I appreciate on this forum, is that there IS such a diverse group of people who can deliver the exact same message in a multitude of ways. If you stick with it, you will almost always find someone who can "talk your talk." You can find your own little sub-group for support and PMs, while learning from a whole host of folks with different life experiences and different ways of communicating their understanding. There's a whole lot of knowledge here and I truly do believe that 99% of the people on this forum don't wake up in the morning determined to drive new people away. As a BS, I actually find it reassuring that this forum IS here, and that people here care SO much about trying to support each other towards a path to healthy relationships. Frankly, some people need a 2x4 upside the head to get their attention. If that gets their attention, then great, you can get through in other ways/words. If not, then realistically they probably aren't ready to face the truth. If they aren't ready or open, then IMO best they leave as quickly as possible so as to not take up the precious time that all of the volunteers on this site are offering.

And now I'm going to sit back with a beer and leave you to figure out who the 1% might be.

I'm a BS, and I've been chastised by the mods, rightly so, when I whacked at a WS. I was might sanctimonious in my whacking, too. I think the mods try very hard to treat all fairly and to make sure all are following the guidelines.

Don't remember who called me out, now, but I'm glad for it because it helped me learn

I can not help but think of one WS that so many of here tried to reach. She was in pain and her bs was abusing her on all fronts. WS and BS were here for her time and again trying many many ways of reaching her to let her know that what she had done did not define her nor sentence her to a life of abuse. I still think of her and pray that she is ok. But I can't help but think if she is, she can most likely thank this forum for recognizing, acknowledging, encouraging and not judging someone who was remorseful and In pain.

This forum used to irk me when I lurked. Then after some time had passed and I was not as raw, it helped me see how the WS can be in pain too. That as a BS I did not have carte blanc to be an a$$hole. I saw WS who helped each other and other BS. I saw respect and empathy. It made me look at my own issues and in a lot of ways has helped me be a better person than I would have been if I was only reading BS opinions that mirrored my own.

Thanks to all of you, really. And I mean that you in the personal sense, not the general you.

Good thread. I thank this place and it's people for helping me see me. And allowing me to get out of myself and my selfish ways and help others AS BEST AS I CAN.

If I don't like your tone or delivery or word choices? Tough effing tookies. You don't like mine? Sorry. Same answer.

This is an ANONYMOUS forum. If I can't handle an invisible stranger trying to help, or pants me, or whatever, then I'm doomed for epic failing out there in the flesh and bone world.

Thanks SI team. Thanks truth tellers, both gentle and blunt. To those who lurk or leave...SI will likely be here when you're ready.

JD