SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You aren't getting that chance because of your wife's history. That is understandable. Do you feel kinda shafted (frustrated) because of that?

I think that's crap. Not you, DD and not you, FP. But I think it's crap that in 14 months your wife hasn't womaned up enough to let you lay it all the way out. Are you SURE she can't take it? Or are you protecting her in some manly man way? Because I think you need to let.it.out. Give her fair warning, then sit her down and just go to town. If she's still standing at the end, maybe you'll see her in a new light.

If that is too much, write it out. All out. At length. And have her read it. Then try to discuss some of it directly.

She needs to hear this anger and see this pain. And you need her to see it and hear it.

Now, my last thought is this. Are you sure you hold back because of her, or are you really holding back because of you? Not only waywards are conflict avoidant. Lot's of BS's have work to do there, too.

Like yesterday, not near a computer right now, but I appreciate the responses and will contribute a little later.

Thx all.

t/j

I think that's crap. Not you, DD and not you, FP.

I was trrrrying to be nice

end t/j

Tred-

FP - IC could be really good for you. A lot of them have sliding scales for those who can't afford it. You may get assistance through your employer as well. Or you can invite the BM thread over to your house, provide the beer, and we'll give you a century of collective IC.

Ha! I wish. Most of you all live in Texas and shit…I only make it that far south to visit my in-laws in Laredo once a year or so. Regarding the IC: the place we went to for MC for a bit does indeed use a sliding scale…it’s not exorbitantly high per session, but if you’re talking 4 sessions a month between my wife and I, it starts to get a little close financially. I’m 99% sure that I’m going to at least pop in for a session and see if the IC has any advice that might help. I can’t do every week or every other week, but if I could pop in there every few months to help me stay on an emotionally healthy track, I think it may be helpful.

numb&dumb-

Has your W earned her way back to the M ? Does she apologize or express her feelings ? Actually believing that she suffers from her consequences was key for me too.

Well, one of the *advantages* of having two DDAYS is that you can compare the reaction by your WS. There was zero remorse after the first one (EA), but I didn’t really notice it, because I didn’t care all that much about it at the time. I really did not. The EA did not bother me. That being said, when I found out about the PA, because I drove us to OM apartment and started to head for his front door, there was a vast world of difference in reaction. She pulled over to the side of the road and threw up. She apologizes all the time. She tells me all the time how lucky she is to have her family together, because I could’ve just left. As far as sharing her emotions…..ehhhhhh….not so much. She’s actually in IC dealing with that right now, because our MC said that we couldn’t really progress until she learned to open up and put names to feelings.

DixieD-

I think this anger is also tied to injustice, and knowing there will never be justice served. No justice for us as BS, but also an injustice because people who thought the WS were awesome, will not understand the truth about all of it. It's frustrating.

Yep.

I think LA44 has mentioned before about BS's writing their own timeline and I basically did this too.

I actually started doing that, was gonna bring it to IC, but it was all snarky and shit, so I shelved it. Maybe I’ll go back to it.

Rebreather-

But I think it's crap that in 14 months your wife hasn't womaned up enough to let you lay it all the way out.

To be clear, I did lay it all out in the first few weeks after DDAY in yelling, spectacular fashion. She stood there and took it and never ran away, but she told me afterwards that when I do that she gets scared...but she's never said that I cannot or should not do it. The holding back is on my end. It's not that I haven't expressed outright anger and rage at her a few times, it's just that it feels redundant at this point. If I'm mad, she knows why. You can only say "I'm angry because you fucked one of my friends, and I'm angry because one of my closest friends betrayed me after all I ever did for him", so many times and in so many ways before it just begins to feel like wasted breath.

I can whisper it, scream it, bellow it, say it sarcastically, whatever, and she's always going to say "I'm sorry. I was a complete piece of shit."...but after like 6 months of that type of shit, it just begins to feel punitive on my end. I don't have any new feelings or revelations about the whole thing, it's just beating the (now-decaying) horse. And yet the anger still persists. Part of me wonders at this point if the residual anger is still from AP. I know my wife, and her issues, and her struggles in IC and stuff the last year...but the AP was a really close friend.

I just don't know how *he* could do this to me...I cannot understand how one man could do this to another man who helped him so much, play the freaking victim, and then never apologize, and then insist that he was somehow the wronged party in all of this.

Not only waywards are conflict avoidant. Lot's of BS's have work to do there, too.

Whoo, ain't that the truth.

As far as sharing her emotions…..ehhhhhh….not so much. She’s actually in IC dealing with that right now, because our MC said that we couldn’t really progress until she learned to open up and put names to feelings.

I can relate to that, especially putting names to feelings. Going to Retrouvaille helped with that.

I also understand what you mean about beating a dead horse, but I've found, like I said earlier, if I don't express it as just a statement even, it multiples. I'll kid myself and think, it will pass I don't have to talk about it again. But that doesn't seem to work (for me).

I bet he AP in your case also has a lot to do with your anger. It would compound it all.

Going to Retrouvaille helped with that.

I've thought about it. Our issue is that we're both atheist...pretty ardently. I take more of a live-and-let-live approach to religion, but my wife is very anti-religion. I've heard varying reports on the level of religiosity at Retrouvaille, but it could be big turn-off for us.

I'm a thinker; I intellectualize, rationalize, and analyze.

me too, so when the aftermath of his A came to be part of my life and I found myself hitting things and digging my fingernails into my palms, I was not sure what to do with the anger other than try to contain it and analyze it. The post-A anger of the BS seems to have a common theme...we are angry at the WS and well should be. Many of us are angry at ourselves b/c of how we handled things after dday. We tend to shift the anger that really should be directed at the WS onto other things or other people...the AP, our jobs, the person who took our parking space...whoever. You have a good handle on why you are angry and it does creep into other areas. Used to be if my WH and I argued, he would snap at me and I would be the calm one and "let it go" to appease him. I may call him an %%^$$#@ under my breath...but now, no matter what the issue is...I call him lying cheating SOB under my breath. If he talks down to me, I no longer let it go...I speak up and tell him not to talk to me like that. I know a lot of my anger is at myself...not for "letting the A happen" that wasn't my doing, but for the passive way I handled it after dday...I still feel like a whimp. But I can't redo it, so I just have to commit to move forward...self-anger is a good topic with a good IC. I too am pissed that he has come through this pretty much unscathed...no one important knows...he still the "good guy" FP...You can't squash the anger... you have to feel it... let it pass in it's own time...accept that none of this is fair and it is not your fault. I try to focus on the one thing I know to be true...I have no control over how anyone else thinks or behaves...just me. Year 1 is about survival, year 2 is about self/reflection focusing inward and regaining self esteem.

I'm right there with you on the second part, too. My wife is doing work on herself, and I see changes, but she doesn't ever talk about the mental aspect of the work she's doing....but she always wants to know what's going on in my head.

Last night, I told her again that I needed to know what she is going through... She started crying, saying that I was not seeing what she was doing. Told her that this was not the point, I was seeing what she was doing, but I need her to tell me also what she feels about all of this. Actions are better that words, words with no actions is not good at all, but actions with no words is not the solution either, at least not for me.

but after like 6 months of that type of shit

I'm just saying, I did that for about 4 years. Not always hostile, but I shared my anger. Sometimes it was a text, "fair warning, today is an angry day" or something similar.

Maybe it feels like you are beating the dead horse, but what gets accomplished by sharing is you are HEARD and validated. Also, you give your spouse to continue to show up for you. Let her be there for you. Let her show you what she's made of. Let her come up with new and creative ways to apologize. Let her recover from being a selfish wayward and become a supportive former, remorseful wayward. Give her the chance to be your equal partner.

It's ok to be mad for a really, really long time. See what happens if you try to embrace it, instead of turning it away.

I have thoughts about the OM too...but maybe for another day.

So, the stuff that bother me most frequently is stuff that I've already shared with my wife, yeah. I don't think I feel 'safe' expressing my anger to her. Not in the physical sense, mind you. I've never so much as touched a woman in anger. My wife's mother cheated on her husband when my wife was 4, and the man stripped her clothes off while beating her and calling her a whore and other things. My wife took her 2 year old sister and hid in the corner and cried while this was happening. So that being the case, male anger and/or rage is something that I don't know how to express around her in a manner that is both cathartic for me, and non-threatening to her, because I know the history there.

Basically you're holding your anger in. She had the affair. You have a right to express your anger. No, not physically, but you need to tell it like it is or it won't go away. It will continue to eat at you and find its way into all kinds of other interactions. I was talking to my MC today and she said that this kind of thing is "cheap forgiveness," as the injured spouse is giving the offending spouse a pass on dealing with the full emotional brunt and simultaneously trying to forgive. It just doesn't work. Those emotions have to be let out at the person who is their real intended recipient. She's grown up enough to fuck your friend, she can listen to you vent your anger about it.

She's grown up enough to fuck your friend, she can listen to you vent your anger about it.

That is a great point, mezmer.

Crossroads- could you pm me? I feel we have a lot in common- #1 not having anyone to talk to.