SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The justification...he's going to do it as long as he wants. "You don't get the luxury" of knowing the details. "I never wanted this. You put us here." "You have no right to an opinion." His exact words.

I've backed off. To push it just makes him angry and gives him more justification in his mind.

I totally get the eye-for-an-eye feeling, the want of a RA. I even get the testing the waters a bit to give your WS a taste of their own medicine. But I will not be the justification for his choices. You made me do it. I will not carry that weight anymore than I would ask him to carry the weight of my choice to have an a. Our choices are 100% our own.

I might be able to offer some insight as BH who experienced something similar.

I filed for divorce, got my own house with primary custody of our oldest and split time with our youngest. Separated finances and the whole deal.

And I used a young woman to ease my pain. She knew everything about me, was single, much much younger (16 years) and her eyes were wide open. Even though I was through with my marriage, I used her.

My fww and I have been back together almost three years. And my greatest regret was using that woman. I feel like shit even posting this now, talk about triggers.

But I get your husband. You have crushed his soul. He feels replaceable. He wonders why someone he loved could do what you did. He feels absolutely hated. He feels that you hate him so much you would happily make him a part time Dad just to chase your OM. He feels absolutely unsafe in what he once thought was the foundation of his world. And he is flailing away trying to find something that will give him security. And in doing so, he is only hurting himself more.

And he wants you to pay, to suffer. As much as the "party line" of adultery goes that it was not about him and all on you, he still knows that you were not ignorant. That every time you had sex with your OM, you knew exactly what you were doing. That it was intentional. As unhealthy as it is, that need to make you suffer as you have made him suffer is going to be around for a long time.

I know you said he does not want to see a counselor, but if you could relay something to him, let him know that a good IC can help him find his footing again and to deal with the anger and overwhelming pain in ways that will really help him heal and not hate himself even more in the future.

I wish you both healing and strength. You will both need it.

Hopefaith,

I was in your shoes, I know how painful it is. My BS took the stance that we were not together and she was being open with me about it, so it was OK in her mind.

She had a relationship with someone else for about 3-4 months she met on match.com. She too refused IC at the time and now admits it was a mistake. She used the guy to boost her self esteem, etc.

I didn't walk away, but tried the 180 and took some big steps back. It was effective, she knew she had to choose or we were going to be history. My situation was a bit different as we were not living together so it wasn't in my face all the time.

Protect yourself legally and be ready for anything. Like many others have said, set your boundaries to retain your self respect. Only you know your husband well enough to know if this will pass or if this is it. Follow your gut, as hard as the reality may be. Don't be strung along.

You're not alone, good luck

What do you want to do, hfl4? It sounds to me like you want him to do this to get it out of his system. Do you really want advice, or are you venting? You seem to want to justify your WH's behaviours.

Was it wrong for you to have an affair or "date" whilst married? Yes, of course it was. It is just as wrong for your WH to do this even though he has told you he is doing it. He also lied and deceived you.

You say he wants to do this out of curiousity, to gain his self-respect and for revenge.

Curiousity ~ that option is gone. Once you get married you have ended that option to be curious and to act on that curiousity of what sex is like with someone else. If he wants to fuck other people, he needs to leave the marriage. Then he can be curious and fuck other people all he wants. He can break his vows and have no integrity or leave the marriage and at least have integrity.

Self-respect ~ this will not cause him to gain self respect. In fact, quite the opposite. How can he have self respect when he is using someone else and lying to this person? That is disgusting and loathsome. He should have at least gone to Ashley Madison where all the cheaters know that each other are married.

Revenge ~ this is the big one. Why would you want to be with someone who wants to hurt you so massively? Even when I was the most hurt and angry I couldn't cause or want my WH to suffer the same as I have suffered. I love him, I don't want to be the one to cause him some of the greatest pain a person can suffer.

When my FWH had his affair he didn't do it with intentions to cause me great pain and suffering. He didn't think I would ever find out, so it wouldn't cause me pain. Yes, that is arrogant and selfish, but also I do see that he didn't have an affair to intentionally cause me pain. Your WH is doing this intentionally to cause you pain and suffering. Do you feel your WH loves you? I am sorry, that is the furthest thing from love. That is pure unadulterated selfishness, hatred and pettiness.

Why would you want to be with someone that wants to harm you? He might as well get a butcher knife from the kitchen and stab you with it. Would you stay with someone who did that to you? Oh, right, you are a WW so you would deserve to be stabbed with a butcher knife. Emotionally, that is what your WH is doing. Stabbing you over and over again.

You have two options here: Put up and shut up. Or, file for divorce.

This is abuse. Waywards don't deserve abuse. Betrayeds don't deserve abuse. No one does. To purposefully and intentionally abuse you, hfl4, isn't love.

Sage words, Sister M!

SisterMilkshake,

I am struggling with all those questions. I don't agree with this at all but a part of me is also thinking, hell, do what you need to do to heal. Let's get through this and move on to working on the marriage. I am just so damn exhausted from it. He wants me to pay, then, fine. There are consequences for both actions and he will need to deal with that as well. I'm not justifying his behavior, but I can certainly understand it. I can even understand the pain that he wants to inflict but to go ahead and do it over and over and over again just to satisfy his need for vengeance is something else. And that is when the marriage will end.

I did a lot LOT of stupid hurtful things in my affair, but when it was discovered I stopped immediately. Doesn't make anything right about my a or make me a stand-up citizen, obviously, but I did the right thing, finally. I saw his pain, I saw his hurt, I saw the destruction and I never wanted to be the cause of that then or again. So the fact that he willingly WANTS and calculatingly IS set on and is setting the ball rolling on inflicting this pain.......I just don't have words for it. I do not have the words for it. That is the part I'm struggling with, not even the affair itself.

He says if he goes they'll tell him what he already knows-that this is wrong, then he'll be back to anger. When he thinks about having an ra he can control the anger. Probably because he feels he has control over something.

But he's not in control. He's searching desperately for a way to feel better, to feel like he did before the A - but he can't. He's in a very big state of denial, imo, and that benefits no one. I feel very sad for your H - his pain is palpable in his actions. I feel very sad for you - your regret is just as palpable.

Here's the thing - if he does this, and you allow it, he will still have been cheated on. There will be no 'evening the score', because when you think of his A, it will be clouded by your A. There is a reason, a thing to tag to it to say 'this is why'. He'll never have that. It will never be 'even'. He needs to understand this. He needs to decide if he wants this marriage with you. If so, then cheating is not a solution. If not, it's time to go your separate ways.

I've ruined something very special between us. So now he wants to dabble. And, like a WS can't feel the absolute depth of pain a BS goes through, he won't know the WS crap until he goes through it.

He still won't get it, and neither will you. He won't know the WS crap, because he'll pin it all on your A. You won't know the BS crap (to use your work ) because you'll always pin his A on your A. Again, there is no evening up, no leveling the field, ever.

I don't say this to blast you, at all. You're remorseful. You're doing what you can. He's not accepting of reality, and instead is searching for a way to 'settle' this. There is no way to do that. He needs to decide what he wants and act accordingly. He's so hurt right now, he's begging for something that will fix things. This won't, but he can't see that.

I'm so sorry for you hfl4. He's left you in an almost no win situation. I suggest you decide what is acceptable to you, and move forward. He'll have his side of things, but you'll have the knowledge that you didn't wait around for the fire to completely fizzle out. If he goes through with this, that's what he's doing - setting your marriage on fire.

(((((hugs)))))

The justification...he's going to do it as long as he wants. "You don't get the luxury" of knowing the details. "I never wanted this. You put us here." "You have no right to an opinion."

I heard all this...the exact words just a few months ago. I am a year and a half from my confession and a year from finding out about his A. When I found out and since then I have been blamed for it all. The punishment never stops...don't get caught in it, its a vicious cycle. Your entering into a reluctant open marriage by your choice.

I did a lot LOT of stupid hurtful things in my affair, but when it was discovered I stopped immediately. Doesn't make anything right about my a or make me a stand-up citizen, obviously, but I did the right thing, finally. I saw his pain, I saw his hurt, I saw the destruction and I never wanted to be the cause of that then or again. So the fact that he willingly WANTS and calculatingly IS set on and is setting the ball rolling on inflicting this pain.......I just don't have words for it. I do not have the words for it. That is the part I'm struggling with, not even the affair itself.

Several others have noted the same things as above and francly I find this a bit offensive. A WS knows that what they are doing is gonna hurt the BS. I don't at all see the difference from having a RA. The original WS hurt the BS just as much so please stop with this blameshifting. The WS was not any better at all. They knowingly hurt the BS during their A, the BS just didn't know about it yet. There is no difference at all. The one having a RA is not worse, francly if he/she is open about it, they are better than the original WS since they don't play the lies and deceite game with the A.

The original WS has the same option as the original BS to end the M if they can't accept/cope/live with the RA.

T/j.

TOMTEFAR:

Most WS's don't think they'll ever get caught. Most WS's rationalize and justify and compartmentalize and self delude regarding thinking they are and will not be hurting their BS. Most WS's have no idea of the level of pain they will cause their BS if caught.

And most WS's, when caught, and when they emerge from the fog, and when they see the devastation and hurt they have caused, will never, ever make those shitty broken damaged choices again.

A BS demanding free passes, or a revenge affair, to "even the score" is making the same shitty broken damaged choices with FULL AWARENESS of the consequences and damage they cause. That gives their infidelity the moral high ground? Because they aren't sneaking around but rather staring at their attempting to reconcile partner in the eyes as they pull the pin on the grenade, drop it at their WS's feet, then pat their kiddos on the head as they walk out the door to fuck someone. Yeah...that makes it all even steven.

Frankly, what you're selling - I personally am not buying.

Maybe you should start a thread "Why revenge affairs are good". I'm guessing it will be a smash hit.

I read your posts. Frankly, you sound angry. Very angry.

End t/j

I am just so damn exhausted from it. He wants me to pay, then, fine. There are consequences for both actions and he will need to deal with that as well.

EXACTLY. He is a big boy. You can not control his decision any more than he was able to control yours.

I won't tell you to go get a D because that option is casually thrown out here way too often.

Stop engaging and participating in this behaviour. If he wants an RA, fine but you aren't going to stop him, encourage him or even be any part of it. Disengage and work on yourself. Decide what are your dealbreakers, express them to him and then put a plan into action.

If you are "okay" with him having the RA (and that is a personal choice that you really need to sit down and examine if you could live with...I personally would be okay...irritated but okay), go work on yourself and be there for him when this blows up in his face.

If you aren't okay, start getting your ducks in a row and work on an exit plan.

I'm a BBf(?) who had an RA. I get where you H is, been there done that, and let me tell you this: it is not easy. To have an affair is not as easy as people tend to believe. Especially if you're not looking for fun or a relationship, if you're full with anger and spite. His ego must be really down, and that won't change after his A. He'll see the OW as a lesser option, as in "I'm such a shit that I only get to choose between 'bad food' for myself or 'better food' shared with who knows how many OMs". If he's looking for "justice", to "even" the M, he won't find it in a A. What it's worse, he'll blame you for his "straying", for making him do things out of character for him and, thus, making him a "worse person". Not saying that's logical or that he'll say it out loud, but it's what it is. That's where I am right now. I broke up and I have mostly moved on, but I still blame my xGF for my hurting the OW (how crazy is that? lol)

Explain him your boundaries and if you make threats, follow them. Explain him that the A won't make fairness out of unfairness, it will add more unfairness for third people, and it'll haunt him.

^^^^^ a lot of WS had an affair for the same reasons. We felt not good enough, low self esteem, like we didn't deserve more, why the he'll else would we choose to enter an A? The choice to enter an A isn't made by a healthy, whole person. Its made by a broken shell who is trying to fill a void with outside validation that can only be filled from within. Majortom from your words I feel you know this but blaming your xGF is easier then dealing with the real reasons behind your decision to have an A.

Hopeful there is no worse here and I hate the term revenge affair it gives justification within the terminology itself. You had an A and now he is having an A. He chose to deal with the pain by going out with other women. You know about it and know he is not planning to stop. Now, what are your dealbreakers? Figure out your pin in the sand and stick to it. You dont even have to rush this choice but dont allow his actions to continue to cause you pain while you figure it out. Detach, 180 and figure out your life.

[This message edited by Unagie at 8:36 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)]

Hey-

I think that the fact that your BH 'saved himself' for this marriage and its fidelity is a very powerful and important dimension that has not been fully fleshed out in the above comments. To me it sets up a double betrayal along multiple dimensions.

As a BH, I really like painfulpast's take, and its focus on the view that your BH is trying to make himself feel better. One aspect of course is his not wanting to feel like a fool in having saved himself.

I really do not like the notion of this being about revenge in this case. It is about self-medication and desperation. Not revenge. It is about the desperate desire not to feel humiliated and emasculated by having saved one's sexuality for a woman who wanted to get conquested by some one else. That is a tough nut folks. And a sad one obviously.

It is about the desperate desire not to feel humiliated and emasculated

...so I am therefore going to try to humiliate and emasculate (insert female equivalent here) my WW. And maybe an OW or two, or three, or four...

Fucked up "coping skills" are just plain fucked up. No matter who coped first.

I think you are afraid to let him be angry, and would rather be complicit in his cheating than really dig in.

I had a RA, that too with her best friend (I know it hurts tooo much, so I deliberately choosed her for my RA. There are two more reasons, she was the enabler,then she was onto me many times and I warned MY WS about this, her replay was that she was too beautiful and never wanted anything with me.

I had a six month A, did it in my home right under the nose of my WS. It felt good. I was/am not worried about the best friend as she was the enabler whom I thought was a good friend of me and my family.

As against many opinions here, My wife was the only women in my life, another women made me feel different. It gave me an esteem boost, I felt strong because many women find me attractive It helped me to realise I too have options, I got many things which my wife denied but gave to OM, that too felt good.

My wife was in fog, she was reluctant to give details about her A and OM, when she caught us, she immediately came out of her fog and jumped in for R. This also gave me an esteem boost.

But the thing is that MY A hurt me more than my WS and when I was having my A right under her nose in my home, at that time it felt good but

now that is the most repelling thing which makes me vomit.

RA are good for a temporary esteem boost, I was already had an issue with self esteem, WS affair took it to bottom. WS was the only women in my life, so doubted my skills when I compared myself to OM, OW helped me to solve that issue (when I saw her having big Os.)

But in my case my RA took the fog out off my WS in a second. She wasnt even ready to talk about her A or OM.

but in long run RA is going to hurt the original BS more than the actual A by the WS, if they try R. I felt good when I saw my WS crying while discussing my A but now I am seeking IC to find how I could be so cold and cruel to my WS.

I am now in R.

I personally would be okay...irritated but okay

Interesting that you find affairs merely irritating. Why is "revenge" on your spouse (or accepting it for yourself) so important? To want to hurt your spouse is beyond me. Why be married if you are going to be playing this game of "tit for tat"? Why would you want to be married to someone who, as kannan posted,

I am seeking IC to find how I could be so cold and cruel to my WS.

I had a light bulb moment here as I put kannan's quote in the box.

If one truly loves someone else, their well being would be your priority. I would suggest if you separate and divorce now you will be showing great love and caring for your WH. You will be saving him from himself. He will be able to keep his integrity. He won't be going to IC wondering how he let himself turn into such a cold, heartless, cruel person.

I don't care for the term RA, either. An affair is an affair. Period. "Revenge" is just an excuse, like any other excuse that WS's use.

I agree very much with everything in your post, Mrs Panda.

I think you are afraid to let him be angry, and would rather be complicit in his cheating than really dig in.

I agree with Mrs. P. Not to mention, if you essentially allow him to do this to you, how will that help you? You are going to constantly compare yourself to this OW or whatever OW is his flavor at the time. You will lose trust. Hell, your husband is already a WH. He's ACTIVELY DATING the OW in front of your face. It's like he's triple dog daring you to do something about it all while knowing you ain't gonna do a damn thing about his cheating. You're too complicit and will do just about anything so he doesn't get angry with you.

SisterMilkshake,

Our marriage is strong enough for both of us to make mistakes. And I would look at the Affair as a mistake. My husband looks at mine as a mistake, not a marriage ending event, but a mistake. We would deal with the consequences and move on.

We all have different types of marriages and not all of us have same dealbreaker's as others.

Majortom from your words I feel you know this but blaming your xGF is easier then dealing with the real reasons behind your decision to have an A.

I rationally know that to be true, but my heart is in a different place. I think OP's H could be in the same spot. What it is sure is that he feels entitled, and he's the only one that can realize that he's going to hurt himself more than anybody else