SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ETA: just saw your last post. If he's a known SA, then yes, I absolutely think that behavior is hugely problematic. Is he seeing a CSAT?

If you haven't already, I'd consider posting the issue in the SA thread, or post putting something like "need help addressing SA husband's girl watching" in the title.

That way, you'll hopefully get feedback from people who deal with SAs and recovering SAs themselves.

Gotmegood- that is exactly how I feel. Prostitute involvement has been difficult for me to process. Sorry you have had this as well.

Spotless- good advice. I lurk on the SA thread. I am so creeped out by all of this I find it hard to articulate in posts but I am starting to find my voice here in SI and not feel so alone.

All you folks rock.

KK, I don't consider your WH as 'stopping all SA behaviors' if he is continuing to openly ogle other women......

Do, however, enjoy your vacation. I love Hawaii....

So then nobody but me thinks that it's disrespectful for one's unfaithful husband to be openly ogling women while out with his wife?

Yes I think its disrespectful.

KK, I don't consider your WH as 'stopping all SA behaviors' if he is continuing to openly ogle other women......

This ^^^^^

I believe it's called "scanning",and it's part of the sickness.

I watched my x do it incessantly, and he was involved with hookers as well over the years.

It is very disrespectful. He doesn't get it.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 1:11 AM, February 24th (Monday)]

I sent you a PM. Please read it. Nothing but good advice for you.

To add you are NOT at fault for feeling uneasy. This is on him. Not you.

I'm trying to cut back on this. I thought since I don't smoke....

Gonna chime in on scanning being an SA behavior. Its beer. Compared to whiskey and bourbon and vodka for the other behaviors. Although, it could be full blown using of the hard stuff for your H, I don't know what his daily drugs of choice were before he scaled back. It seems he has defined "sobriety" in a way that still allows him to act out. Which isn't sober at all, by the way.

Does he have a CSAT? (certified SA therapist)

Any alcoholic--or person acquainted with an alcoholic-knows that there is NO "just beer."

The drug is the drug, period. Beer is as intoxicating as whiskey.

solus sto -

I was saying he is still using, beer is alcohol, so a drunk drinking beer is still drunk. Also, if all he ever drank was beer anyway, he is still using first-line behaviors, and has not scaled back even at all. If he previously did more hard core behaviors, he likely is rationalizing that this isn't acting out because it is not as bad as what he used to do. It is still acting out. As much as beer is still alcohol, scanning is still acting out.

If he's not aware he's doing it that blatantly while you are right there, then that's even more disrespectful.

It'd be disrespectful even if he had a clean history otherwise. If I am with my wife and take notice of an attractive woman I will point her out, though my wife is more likely to do that. That is our dynamic though, and for us it works because we're present in each others thoughts. Usually it just takes the form of commentary during TV like "That womans tits are way too big for her skinny arm body, how does she not float away" or "That woman has a very interesting face" or "Matt Smith is attractive in that just this side of unattractive way of being attractive" though I honestly just kind of nod and go along with comments like the last because while I think the bowtie is stylin I have no fucking idea. Anyway.

If you aren't even in his head while you are right next to him and he is openly leering then it's just plain wrong IMO.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:37 PM, February 24th (Monday)]

I would bring it to his attention that it is not acceptable and it makes me uncomfortable and is disrespectful to me.

After that, every time he does it I would step on his foot (hopefully I would have stiletto's on) or I would elbow him nice and hard. Just a friendly reminder....

OK.

Is it not a fine line that separates normal looking and what you guys have taught me is scanning? He is very complimentary when he is with me and holding my hand. I think this is me being overly sensitive due to his SA, and it doesn't feel right to project that onto him when I really feel he is doing the work. I don't feel he is leering, but what I have taken to heart from you friends is that I must now open a dialogue with H about this. I still find all of this extremely uncomfortable but am learning much with your help about living with this new reality as we want to R.

He doesn't need beer, he has champagne, I have to work on myself to not feel like rubbing alcohol.

Gawd, Hawaii is beautiful!

This is an issue for H also.. I know the insecurity you felt. I could imagine it as I read your post...ANd yes, many vacations are ruined because of it. ANd special events, dinners, holidays..It can pop up any moment....I cannot wrap my head around how this can happen after all the fights and damage of A or EA... How can this be ok? Or even considered? ... It makes you feel rejected, ugly, unwanted, unloved, so mistreated to do it in front of you. I have discussed this quietly, and timely. I have screamed, I have demanded, I have requested nicely. Some change, not enough. Bottom line is, we need security and feeling safe to have R. THis behavior brings DDay back to the moment. The threat of A is right in front of you, slapping you in the face. Its a vicious circle.

They say they are not aware...( they can be aware of a girl, but not aware of himself?) . I just cant believe that... I told H I would certainly D over this..Its abuse. He is now trying harder then ever, but seems to really struggle with it....Is he that sexually desperate? I have said all I can on it....I feel completely comfortable making a scene next time it comes on....I will say what I feel like saying, to him, where ever we are. I am no longer going to suffer in silence...Hawaii, Or the grocery....Hes not going to continue to enjoy himself, while its all ruined for me. I can ruin his vacation too. Find your voice. ANd keep it..Dont keep silent until its a better time...Speak when you need too.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 6:03 PM, February 24th (Monday)]

Please talk to him about how his looking makes you feel. Right now you are taking it on the chin because you don't want to rock the boat when it appears he's trying in other ways. Unfortunately by withholding your feelings from him, you hobble him in his ability to see how little actions can have a big impact on you. He needs to see that and address it for you both to heal and grow. Continuing to hide how you feel from him in this instance will only compound your pain. That does not mean you have to make it a big huge confrontation. Wait until you two are alone and just tell him "Hey, when we were out today I felt like you were really checking out several other women and it hurt. I felt less than I just want you to know how I feel."

Then put the ball in his court and see how he handles it.

Is it not a fine line that separates normal looking and what you guys have taught me is scanning?

Well, not a fine line between double and triple taking and scanning. Really, truly, if this is a guy who wants to recover from his addiction, and not continue to wallow in and enjoy his addiction, this behavior should be discussed between him and his CSAT and him and his SA sponsor. And if he isn't seeing either of those two folks, my hunch is that he's white knuckling his addiction (except for liberally using scanning) and continuing in it, and not recovering.

You should certainly discuss this between the two of you as well. If you find it harmful to your M, he should know. Do you have any boundaries established with regard to this behavior?

It is not a fine line. You didn't describe a guy who happened to notice once an attractive woman. You described double and triple takes. And an SA in recovery(or purporting to be). No fine line there.

The fine line between checking a girl out and scanning isn't such a fine line, really. It's not just looking - it's a part of a complex and cyclical process. Scanning was (I hope 'was') a major component of my SAWH's every day life and he says he didn't feel he could be truly sober without stopping the scanning (along with the subsequent masturbating). Every woman - pretty, ugly, old, young, whatever - was cataloged and critiqued and mentally banked away for fantasies of various types. He would create entire scenarios in his head the entire day - at work, at home, in the car - wherever and whenever. It's a messed up type of object-ification (written that way to emphasis he object part) and dehumanization. These women weren't actually people with feelings and lives and happiness and agency - compassion, empathy and sympathy are things he still sometimes struggles with. Scanning has a bunch of components to it that all need dealing with.

[This message edited by carnelian at 8:16 PM, February 24th (Monday)]