SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dr. Phil says people do things for a pay off. I agree with that. They continue to do the same things because there is a pay off for them.

He was getting a payoff from these OW. It might be hard to understand exactly what the pay off is, but he was getting a pay off. Thus, he was attracted to these OW's for the pay off he was getting.

My FWH had all kind of "rules" for his affair. I believe in his twisted way it was to "protect" our marriage, and to keep the affair in fantasyland. It sounds like your WH did the same.

One of the major steps I took in my healing is to realize that my FWH doesn't think as I do. Trying to make sense out of the nonsense that WS's tell themselves is crazy making.

Absolut. Sorry but again not looking for people to criticize what this was, just relate. If you cant relate or understand this specific type of situation please just dont reply. For the record all the OW indicated he told them repeatedly how much he loved me and refused to tall about me to them....not once did he complain about me or his home life. He has not diagnosed himself, IC has...he had some serious issues that went undiagnosed far too long. I am not here to defend or dispute his actions. I know he wasnt attracted to them, I know he had performance issues as a result. They were older than his mother and I trust what I trust. I am not denying the As occured or implying they havent destroyed my world, but these people meant nothing to him and when I say he refused younger atteactive women they were also women in his real world, not escorts. I think I have been bery clear on stating this already. Thank you.

Sistermilkshake yes it was the payoff fo him, that describes it well.

He wasn't attracted to her for sex, but he had sex with her to feel validated? How can a man feel validated, good about himself, etc, by a woman so gross he really doesn't want to have sex with her? That same woman somehow is an ago boost just by making herself sexually available? The woman who is so ugly he doesn't want?

Um no.

This is a lie that doesn't even make logical sense

.

These are all questions I went through when I discovered this aspect of the As...these are all the parts that 'didn't add up' to me as well until both his and my IC confirmed that this does in fact happen...maybe not that often, maybe more often than we realize - I don't know, but it does happen and if others are posting this exact topic as well that tells me I'm not alone in this situation. He didn't have sex with them to feel validated, he started the online affairs and met with them in person to feel validated by hearing how great he was and seeing how willing them were to compromise themselves for his sake...he could take or leave the sex because it wasn't what he was after...but those validations were hollow and he never left feeling good about himself even though that's what he craved...does an alcoholic ever feel truly better and healed after getting drunk? He literally stopped at hotels on his way home from work to prostitute himself to these people and then come home as soon as he could...he was never late getting home from work...even on trips where they came with him, he didn't spend any of the trip with them and went off on his own...just got them to pay for his hotel and gas money, then ditched them once they got to the city they went to...so no, I don't think he 'liked' or cared about them in the least...nor do any of us like that side of him, because it was a selfish persona he created and none of us have ever seen in his 'real life'.

Most of these women mentioned how cold and serious he was in their company, how they never understood why he was with them because he was so protective (by not answering their nosey questions) and adoring about myself and his children and so cold towards them...they knew he used them, they knew he manipulated them and yet sadly they put up with that and went out of their way to be his enablers. He lied to them about what city we lived in, what type of work he did, they didn't even know his cell number, my name or our last name. In fact he used a fake name for the first little while with all of them. They were willing to do anything for his company and that's not something the women that were his normal 'type' or had self respect were willing to do because they had standards and wanted a balanced relationship that went both ways. He describes these people as a misery loves company in a sense, and at the time he was spiraling out of control in more than this aspect of his life. He knew they were also liars and cheaters and he felt 'safer' being in their company than a genuine younger attractive woman who was online seeking a real relationship...he didn't want to leave me or his family, so he refused those types of women who wanted to meet him, develop emotional affairs and then result in physical ones...it wasn't what he was after. And that's what I mean when I saw he wasn't attracted to them - he was attracted to the situation, but he wasn't attracted to the people.

The sex was what he felt his obligation in return was to get the compliments, gifts etc he was getting from them...I think someone else mentioned it feeling like an obligation as well. that's how he felt. He never felt good about himself by doing this and he was very vocal about that to them as well - was he searching for validation down this route? yes, but does that mean he actually found it this way? of course not...isn't validation something that can only come from within and healthy relationships to further boost it? He had extreme low self esteem and lack of ego, so he was attempting to get that ego and esteem but clearly this was not the 'right route'...it was the route that he chose because he was not well, had some issues from his past and didn't deal with his pain and issues in an appropriate manner. I have to agree when you said it doesn't make 'logical sense' - of course not, none of this did...that's one of the hardest part to come to terms with, nothing he did in this situation was logical because he wasn't thinking logically at the time.

I have spent 8m in IC and MC over this (not just with his, I have my own and we have a separate MC - his IC just wanted a couple sessions with us both at the start and now only sees him). I am not on here looking to throw away those months of counselling and start over in evaluating what this was...I am confident in the conclusions made so far and there's still a long road ahead for him that now includes being referred to a psychiatrist...I appreciate everyone's opinions and concerns, but each A is unique as is each AP and WS. Are there common situations? for sure but are there unique aspects or situations also? always. Maybe we're in that 0.01%, but I have spent enough time beating myself up, doubting and feeling insecure about this - I'm not going to go down that road again. I have done a lot of work at IC to truly cope with what this was for him. I do realize that it can come across as if I am rationalizing or blind to what this really was, but I can assure you that is not the case, nor what I came on here to discuss. While it might appear that this whole avenue is an excuse for R, it has been in fact one of our biggest hindrances for R and that's why I was looking for others who have been through this. When I was under the impression there was only 1 AP, I thought all the 'norms' - someone he felt he could relate to, someone he was attracted to or made him feel good about himself and I felt I could get over that and attempt to R. It was once I found out there were several AP, that he wasn't attracted to them and didn't enjoy their company that R started to stall because I had a hard time understanding that he was going to risk his marriage when there was not even someone he cared enough about to risk it for. We have always had a loving affectionate marriage, so regardless of the whys I was blindsided. IC has been the one to walk me through all this, she is amazing and has never faltered in her beliefs that this stems from something deeper within him that started before he met me, and he is struggling with an addiction issue, not to the sex but the need to fill yourself with empty validation from the outside world. For him it was nothing to do with who the OW was and more about punishing himself and doing bad things because he felt like he was worthless...she compared it to an overeater or a cutter, numbing yourself emotionally with distractions that you know aren't healthy for you. The bottom line is I'm looking for others who have been through similar to perhaps provide insight on how they came to terms with As that weren't emotional or even necessarily about the sex...because for me, it's been a further blow to the self esteem to see that he was associating with older, less attractive, out of shape women who didn't even have 'nice' personalities and to know that he risked our marriage for people he wouldn't even date in 'real life'.

My FWH "cheated" on OW (we were separated) with a woman who weighed quite a bit over 300 lbs (we were old co-workers, and had spoken about weight loss before). My FWH is, by many account, drop dead good looking.

In MC, I asked FWH to think of the most disgusting, repulsive woman that had ever made a pass at him. then I asked him if he had slept with her. Indeed, he had. In fact, he doesn't remember NOT sleeping with a woman who had been sexually aggressive towards him (he has some deep seated childhood sex abuse issues).

Yes, people sleep with people they aren't attracted to. All the time. I'm ashamed to admit I have not only slept with people I wasn't attracted to, as a young adult I had an entire relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to, out of sheer loneliness.

It's not far fetched to think people have affairs with people they aren't attracted to.

Thank you wantohelp. I know that was the case here too. Loneliness and other emotions are the drive in these cases more than the OP or sex IMO.

I don't have a similar situation, but I am very curious about how you know all of this about your WH's A. You seem to discuss as if it is all "fact".

How do you know what the AP's said? How do you know all of this is true? How do you know what his performance was like when he was with them?

Unfortunately, one of the things I have accepted is that I only know what my fWW has told me. I don't know if there is more that she is hiding, if she has told me everything. Even if I did speak to the OP, I can't really trust what he would say.

So, I have to operate more from the perspective of how she behaves and how she treats me as opposed to what she has told me.

If our WS's really love us, they still tend to try to protect us from the truth. That's why there is so much TT related on this site.

I hope you really do realize the truth.

I hope you really can R.

I do realize the truth now, there were about 2m of TTs but there are none anymore - I get the truth, even when it hurts because transparency and full disclosure is only way to go forward and we both know that. I think I've gone through it in great detail already above, so I won't rehash. I've had plenty of contact with the OW, most of this came from them. I've seen email conversations between them that confirmed the things I've said. I've gone through 8m of IC and MC on the subject...I am confident in what I know this was and even if not everyone can understand it, or relate to it, I know there are others in my same position. No AP in their right mind (let alone 4) is going to admit to WH having performance issues with them to the wife unless it happened or tell the wife how cold he was towards them. These people were all married too, they weren't pursuing a relationship with him, they just hadn't had sex in years at home and were looking to feel young again by chasing a younger man. they all felt he was out of their league, that's what drew them to him...none of them understood why he paid any attention to them either, and they indicated that in the fallout emails.