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My IC keeps trying to get me to focus on my M. She says that when I feel secure in the M again, OW will be unimportant to me. H told my IC that I am the love of his life, and IC says he should make me know and feel that I am the love of his life, and whatever he decides to do should we ever get D, is unimportant for now.

Long story short, because I don't want to keep repeating myself-

H has cheated with OW three times, twice during our M.

I want him to be disgusted by her actions. I want him to tell me he would never want to see her again, simply because of what she has helped him do to our family and the hurt she encouraged him to inflict upon me. Apparently he is not able to do that now. He says he is committed to our M but doesn’t see OW as the monster I think she is.

Anyway, I feel I have to make a choice. Do I stand by my principles- not wanting to continue the M if he keeps feeling this way because he should reject anything and anyone that hurt me? Or do I try to R, albeit maybe not wholeheartedly but for the sake of the kids, because the alternative- a ruthless, no morals selfish whore OW being the kids' stepmom half of the time is my ultimate nightmare?

What do you think about IC’s point of view? Should I forget what H is saying and focus on R? I feel she is rugsweeping. Is it true that H’s feelings on OW are unimportant and I should focus on the M? Should I give up the M for my principles on something that may never happen?

I really don't understand why your counselor would try to sway you from something you are wanting. If you did not want to R I do not understand why she's telling you that you should.

It's not that I don't want to R. I do, however, feel that my H should not want the OW ever again. Somehow I feel that R and not feeling indifferent about OW are not compatible. I could be wrong?

Okay now I understand better. Personally, I would not be able to R if my H was not totally denouncing the OW either. It would just make me feel unwanted and unloved in our relationship and I could never be happy. Maybe give yourself a timeline. Like if it doesn't improve in a month or couple of weeks then you will not be considering R any longer.

My DD2 is a year ago. Isn't that time enough to find that indifference? Or do some WSs take even longer than that?

I understand exactly what you are saying. How can they not hate someone who participated in causing so much pain to their wives? My H says it's because he did the same actions so how can he hate her for it? I say if he really was remorseful and wanted to protect me from further pain he would hate her. Idk if I'm right but i would live for him to see her as the manipulative bitch that i do.

I think i feel that way for two reasons. If he hates her then it's less likely he will go back there. And i also might feel more like he's "on my side".

It gets even worse, Christy. H says he is totally committed to me, our M and our family. Now. But should we ever get D, he might hook up with her again I feel like he is not letting her go.

Just to offer another point of view, your WS may be reluctant to admit that OW is a monster and what she did was disgusting because that means that HE is a monster and what HE did is disgusting. That may not be something he is willing or able to face.

However, you have a right to feel exactly how you feel. If you need better reassurance from him in order to R then that is what you need. And given that you 2 ddays, whatever he did after the first dday was not enough to keep him from doing it again. No wonder you need to feel reassured before you are willing to make yourself vunerable to that pain again.

Perhaps what your IC is saying is that if you REALLY want to R then you need to let it go. But based upon this post, I am not getting the feeling that this is the case. Rather, it seems you will ONLY R if your WS does whatever you need to feel secure again. IS your IC anti-D or pro-M no matter what? Is your IC pushing R more than you want R?

One more point

H says he is totally committed to me, our M and our family. Now. But should we ever get D, he might hook up with her again I feel like he is not letting her go.

If both ddays were with the same woman, then this would be totally unacceptable. You are NOT someones back up plan! If this iws the case, I would run fast and run hard away from WS.

I know you guys will hate me, but aren't you/we putting bar too high. The AP chose us, is sorry, but we cannot change what he feels. The actions are what they can and should control. NC is an obvious requirement, but hate to OP, that may be too much to ask for, though it would be sweeto to get it I must admit.

Or asking what they woudl do afer divorce, that is too much in my books,

It's ok to feel what you feel. You can't dictate your feelings.

It's also ok for him to feel what he feels. You can't dictate someone else's feelings, either.

If he can't feel hatred, and you insist that he feels hatred, then you are at an impasse, and I believe your R is doomed.

Largely due to YOUR insistence.

Which is ok, if that's what you NEED, and he's not capable of giving it.

Why do you need him to feel hatred? If there's NC, if he's "all in" to R, if he's DOING everything he needs to do, why do you need to get inside his head and tinker around and direct how he FEELS about someone else?

Having said that, I'm disturbed by this:

But should we ever get D, he might hook up with her again

Is this something you are supposing, or something he said? If it's supposing, then you are trying to do mind-reading. If it's something he said, then he's not "all in".

I tend to agree with your IC. If there's commitment to NC with OW, you're the one keeping her involved in your marriage, not him.

Is it true that H’s feelings on OW are unimportant and I should focus on the M?

no. If my husband had any lingering feelings for either OW we would be done. BECAUSE, that would mean he hadn't thought through how she was an accomplice in stabbing me in the back.

I agree with TH. You get to feel what you feel, but then again, so does your WH. Sometimes, that really, really sucks.

I really understand the need to have your WH see the OW as not-the-victim. Btdt, burned the t-shirt after the divorce. I needed now-ex to obviously "pick me" over OW, and that included words as well as actions. He couldn't. He could lie and tell me he loved me, but he couldn't, or wouldn't, insult OW, put her down, or even share much about her. But he had no problems sharing private details about me with her. It became clear that she was his priority, not me.

Listen to your gut. If this is a dealbreaker for you, then it's a dealbreaker. And that's okay. Your feelings are not less important than your WH's. ((amberdust))

I see a lot of confusion here. If you're reporting what your IC said accurately, I think your IC is a major part of it.

You have to heal yourself. You need to make and feel your own safety. You can't base your security on things you can't control. But your IC seems to be telling you to base your sense of security on what your H says. I don't get that at all, especially given your H's history.

At the same time, your H won't be a good partner just because he sees this ow as a monster. Among other things, even if she IS a monster - and she probably isn't - he's attracted to her anyway. If he stays with you in part because he hates ow, he's still got a cheating mindset and is potentially vulnerable to other women. That doesn't help you much at all.

To be a good partner, he needs to figure out how to be monogamous. He needs to commit to you, no matter how many fine women are in the world.

I think you're asking the wrong questions. If your IC is supporting you in this, you need a new IC. JMO, of course.

What does your gut say about what you want and what's possible? Do you really want to R? Is your H a good candidate for R?

IMO, your gut says your H is still in 'mental contact' with ow, and you can't R without NC.

IMO, your gut is telling you that your IC is for rugsweeping, and your gut doesn't like that at all.

IMO, your gut is telling you the truth. That's pretty neat, IMO.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:15 AM, May 31st (Saturday)]

Oh Amber I'm so sorry he said something so cruel! I think i would look at that as him not being "over" his feelings for her.

Idk if it helps but i have seen as time has gone on (only 5 months since true NC) that my WH feelings for her seem to be changing. We went from "i thought i loved her" to "i have no feelings for her but don't wish anything bad for her" to "i can see that her actions are selfish and uncaring and i dont like her for that". The last is referring to OW continuing to come to his shows (he plays in a band). Idk if I could be trying to R if it didn't seem like he is coming around with what he thinks of her. It just seems like if he had any thoughts of getting with her if we got divorced it would be too easy to go back there when things get tough. And trying to R is tough. Regular life is tough with many ups and downs in any relationship. Idk of i could ever feel safe again if he felt like that was an option.

I guess i want my H to see me as the only option for him. If he sees other women, especiallythe AP, as options then i ddon't see how it can work. What a terrible position he has put you in!

But should we ever get D, he might hook up with her again

Yeah, that would be a complete deal breaker for me. He is still emotionally invested in the OW, by his own admission.

You cannot control how he feels, you cannot change how he feels. All YOU can do is make choices for yourself. How much pain are you willing to put up with to stay with this WS?

Cause I'm telling you right now, his words do not say he is 100% all in with you. THAT worries me. That is not how you rebuild trust in your marriage.

And you need a new IC. Her advice is beyond stupid. How are you supposed to "feel secure in the marriage" when he flat out tells you he will go back to the OW if you two don't make it?

Hell no honey. You deserve way better than that.

H says he is totally committed to me, our M and our family. Now. But should we ever get D, he might hook up with her again I feel like he is not letting her go.

He isn't letting her go. He may be technically NC, but he's in contact with her mentally. She's taking up space where she doesn't belong, because he still cares for/about her.

I think if he was indifferent to her, she wasn't taking up head space you wouldn't NEED him to hate her.

You're picking up on his keeping her alive and well and safe in a place that should be reserved for his WIFE. Your gut wants her evicted before you can feel safe. And he isn't exactly doing the work to eradicate or exorcize her from his brain.

Trust needs consistent action and work at rebuilding. Even more so once it's been broken. Your H has chosen you, and keeping ow as a backup plan - is not trusting himself to fully commit to the marriage. Or he doesn't trust you not to divorce him.

I think I would get another mc one specializing in infidelity.

K

I think your IC is an IC, not your MC--and that her approach is totally fucked, not to put too fine a point on it.

Your feelings are valid and should not be discounted.

You might not reach rapprochement with your WH; that is one of the risks he took when he chose to be open to another woman. But that does not mean you must compromise what is important to you.

You're allowed to have dealbreakers.

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:32 PM, May 31st (Saturday)]

I think you need to get an IC that hasn;t talked to your H.

Your H still has feeling for OW. If he's keeping his options open in case you 2 don;t work out then I think u just got your answer.

Your principles are the foundation upin which you should buoild ur healthy boundries. I think you know exactly what you want to do but are struggling because it is so frickin painful and difficult to be true to urself in this situation.

YOU alone have to decide what u can live with. Ex. I have an electric screwdriver, I also have a manual screwdriver incase the electric one breaks as a back-up.. That is what ur H has with his OW.

I guess it comes down to this:

When asked: “What if we were divorced and not together anymore? Would you be ok with her contacting you or you contacting her?”

I want my H to say “No Way! I would never again want to be near anyone that has encouraged me to hurt you, the kids, and myself, for now I realize how she has helped me be the worst version of myself. Let me give you an example of what she did wrong: A… B… C… and let me tell you how that is not ok.”.

Isn’t that what every BS wants or needs to hear to feel secure about continuing the M? To me it says: this person is loyal, has looked inward, is aware of the damage OW has helped him create, realizes she is not a friend because friends don’t help friends lie, cheat and leave a loving innocent family. It says “this person wants to be better than that, now, and in the future”.

Instead, I get “Well, you never know how life goes… curiosity… weaknesss, blahblah”.