SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dear LA44,

I'm sorry you have found yourself here today. That list sounds like a great idea and I hope someday, you are able to cross off all 25 items.

I have read "How can I forgive you?" It is a good book so continue to read it. I am always open to new book suggestions so I will definitely read "Not just friends."

I think I'm really too hard on myself most days. I get mad at myself for not being able to 'just get past it" because that is really what my head needs. It's just taking longer than I thought to get there. My husband is a really good man and despite what some say here, he didn't just tell me because he thought she'd make a fuss. He was gone 4 days on that conference and had visible weight loss by the time he came home. He even contemplated suicide because he would rather not hurt me with an infidelity. It was the one thing he said he would never do. He was hurting too and will forever be shamed when he looks in the mirror.

Does true R exist?? Will it ever be better than before like I've heard people say??

Well then there is no gap in his story. And you do have all the gory details. Except the why, and the why is always the hardest to get over.

I just read somewhere that R often takes 2-5 years

That really depends on the BS among other circumstances.

It can be much worse for a BS if the affair last for 6 months or longer, because of the amount of time, amount of lying and what can happen in 6 months and longer.

In time, you will get used to the crappy feelings, memories and images. They get old to you after awhile. But you will never forget, just like any other experience in your life.

Isn't anyone able to believe that someone made a mistake?? I believe he made a mistake and I'm just looking for some advice on how I am feeling. My husband is doing everything to prove that this was just a one time, horrendous error in judgement. It's me who is looking for a little comradery...

You came here for advice 18 months after his confession. Did I read that correctly?

Obviously something is still bothering you.

Initially you were in shock, at about the two year mark people start to think more clearly.

Have you talked to your IC about this? Why you felt the need at 18 months to finally seek support and other opinions.

You are asking for advice from those who have reconciled.

People who have reconciled, know about the trickle truth, and how a wayward can lie because of the false belief that lying will protect the spouse from further harm.

But in reality in an affair it is the deception that causes the most harm.

From an outside unemotionally involved perspective your husband's story does not make sense.

The question to ask is what made him think it was alright to even consider a quickie at an office function, practically out in the open?

Also, why did it take him so long to shut her down?

Seriously, When she wrapped her arms around him from behind, any wise executive with strong boundaries would have immediately fled the room, realizing they may be putting themselves at risk for a law suit or being fired.

Wasn't he the least bit concerned someone might walk in and see them together?

If you believe your husband is telling the truth, then really, his indiscretion was a small one, and he came forward and told you and now, according to you, he is doing everything right.

So, forgive him, if you wish, and move forward.

Trust, but verify, would be my only advice.

There are a lot of reconciled spouses here who have been lied to repeatedly.

That doesn't mean you are being lied to and even if you are it doesn't mean you can not forgive. That's up to you.

But in the end a lot of faithful spouses are cheated on because they were too trustful to begin with.

Personally, you still sound a little too trustful to me, and perhaps others commenting.

It's not that they are trying to harm your reconcilition. It's more that they are trying to prevent you future hurt.

So trust but verify.

Hi reallyscared, welcome.

Please know, you are on a board with every possible opinion so you won't always get the advice you want. What you will get is honesty from a group of folks that have been hurt/hurt more than anyone can imagine.

We care about your outcome, your healing and surprisingly enough, your husband's too.

Some advice won't fit, others will. Take what you can use and leave the rest....someone will be along to use it.

You asked

Does true R exist?? Will it ever be better than before like I've heard people say??

And yeah, it happens. Betrayal, no matter how long/short, big/small is betrayal. It hurts and takes a lot of time and work to get through.

My husband and I are 7 years out. We have been fortunate to find healing,for both of us and our marriage.

What we have today is better than I expected. We have gone through one hell of a ride to get here, but it was so worth the trip.

I am grateful daily for our second chance, we have grown in so many ways. When I look back at our "old" life I cannot imagine having been so wrong. I thought we were "happy" but my happiness came from places that weren't real.

We got real and we got happy.

Do the work, take the time and trust yourself.

You can do it.

And again, welcome. You have found an amazing group of people.

(((hugs)))

Hey Reallyscared, I have accepted everything on that list. All 25. Accepted. Not forgiven yet. But acceptance is the first step. The list was instrumental in helping me get to that.

Does true R exist?? Will it ever be better than before like I've heard people say??

Yes. I believe it does exist. I have seen many people here get to that place of R. Doesn't mean they stop working at their M. But they have moved far beyond the A. I am not saying I am there yet. Is our relationship better then it was pre-A? Absolutely it is. We are far more open and honest. We let ourselves be vulnerable. We have the other's back. We understand boundaries.

At 18 months, our work is not so much about the A. It's mainly FOO and working through those. Its a journey and R is not linear as per my tag line.

Late to reply, but yes, you are normal. You are trying to make sense out of a senseless act.

Why would some idiot woman do a bump and run on your H? Because she is classless and thrives on the chaos in her reckless life. No morals. Old school convention activity, bag as many as possible. It is sick and some companies HR include education regarding after hours behavior due to sexual harassment charges after conventions. Unfortunately, men and women do not always play well together. I have an acquaintance who is a VP of HR and she said somedays she feels like a playground monitor in a nursery school.

Why did you H respond, even if for just a minute? Only he knows for sure, but I would bet alcohol plus naked chest plus lowered boundary equals momentary loss of control. Hurts like hell, but it is what it is.

Get the book already suggested, Not Just Friends and read it together. The more you do as a couple in the healing process the better you both will feel.

Set up boundaries, together for both of you, not just him. These are life long boundaries, not temporary until you feel better. My minimum boundary for your H would be no more alcohol unless you are present. He can do business on a coke just as well as a jack and coke.

It may sound like nobody trusts our spouses here on SI, and for all of us, there is a reason why. It is an infidelity sight. For me, too many lies, one to many DDay's, the A taken underground after first discovery, and on and on.

I will always have a doubt and that makes me sad. There may be R, but trust comes very late in the process, if ever. I still hurt, I still trigger, I still want to nail the A coffin shut, but I also have learned you cannot hurry the process.

Reallyscared,

Like someone has already stated, take what you can use from SI and leave the rest. Every BS comes with his/her own experiences, and these experiences can shape our perceptions of other people's stories. Yes, it's sadly all too common for a BS to be lied to by the WS. This happens more often than a BS who gets the entire truth from the get go. However, that doesn't mean the latter can't happen. I'm also one of those people whose WS confessed. I'll never be 100% certain, but I'm 99% certain that I got the truth. It sounds like you're in a similar place.

Many of the infidelity books say that R is more likely when a WS confesses rather than gets caught. "More likely," however, doesn't mean R is easier or better. It sounds like a part of you feels like, hey, your story isn't so bad--it could be worse. You might even hear other people saying your experience wasn't that serious. But clearly it was/is otherwise you wouldn't be feeling what you're feeling. Infidelity isn't a single betrayal; it's a series of betrayals. Your WS made a series of stupid and hurtful choices:

(1) While at a conference without you, he decided to hang out, late into the night, with a group that included women.

(2) He decided to drink alcohol, making it even more likely to make stupid and hurtful choices.

(3) He allowed himself to be alone in a hotel room, after drinking, with another woman at 2am in the freaking morning.

(4) He allowed her to remove her top. He didn't stop her or leave which encouraged OW.

(5) He participated enough to see that she wasn't wearing a bra or underwear.

(6) He touched her in a sexual way.

(7) He was turned on by her.

I'm sorry--I'm not writing these out to hurt you but to emphasize that these are all hurtful acts by your WS. What your WS did is a big freaking deal. Of course you're still hurting. Of course you're still in pain eighteen months later. You don't need to get mad at yourself because you can't "just get past it." It takes time to rebuild trust.

Your WS sounds remorseful but I don't know if he entirely gets it. He believes if the OW hadn't been so aggressive, he would have finished his drink and left. That isn't enough for you to feel safe. He needs better boundaries. HE shouldn't have allowed #1, 2, and 3 above to happen.

I think you already said you were going to read Not Just Friends. That's a good one.

I'm not even a year out from Dday myself, so I can't tell you much about what the future might be like. There's a thread called Positive Reconciliation Stories at the top of the R forum. I go there once in a while when I start to feel like trying to R is like trying to find a unicorn.

God, i hope R is real possibility... I am sometimes worried that I am too trusting, too early, with FWH. Even though he confessed, within 24 hours... And came clean immediately with no TT (dday 1 was wrought with years of TT, all ending on dday2), this betrayal took planning... His first was chalked up to her being aggressive, pushy, and manipulative... And I thought we were R. But he never owned up or stopped any of the behaviors that led to his EA... And so, it wasn't all that long before he was back in the land of Wayward.

You are still bothered by it... Because you know this isn't an "accident". And while his story is possibly true... He is as much to blame for it as she is. Quit being hard on yourself. You are allowed to be upset, and distrustful. You are. It's great that he is remorseful... And in time, you will see it that fully, and trust it FOR REAL.

Reallyscared, yes you are normal. It takes time and lots of work to recover from this stuff. I am going to go back to your user name and your original post and ask you a question. What are you really scared about? Are you scared that you can't get over this? I think this is a threshold question for everybody who has to deal with infidelity and only you can answer for yourself. Is this something you can get over or is it a dealbreaker for you? What your WH did is minor on the continuum of infidelity (if you have been reading here for a while, you know that there are some truly awful stories), but it is still infidelity and that may be something that you can't live with. If you can't that's ok, but you have to acknowledge it and move to D.

If you decide that you can live with it, then you have to go about figuring out how you and your WH will work through it. You have been given some great advise on this thread and you will probably get more. I second the suggestion that your WH's alcohol use should be a topic of conversation between the two of you. I sounds like that was a major factor in what happened. Once you have a plan for how to deal with it, then you have to work the plan. I am an advocate of both IC and MC--but you need to see what works for you.

My main suggestion is to be gentle with yourself. You can R and make your M stronger, if that's what you want. You do have to deal with the reality that things can't go back to being perfect (if they ever where--maybe this is a wake-up call for you and your WH?) I know you feel like your WH allowed another woman to come into your M, but he didn't really let her in. Yes, he made some mistakes, but he did a lot right as well, so give him credit for that. Focus on the positives, not the negatives (yes, easier said than done!) Give yourself the time to heal from this. I promise, true R does exist, it just might not look exactly the way you imagined it.

Reallyscared,

What does forgivness mean to you? What does it look like? It's such a confusing thing to me. I've read book after book on forgivness and I still don't think I can ever change the way I feel about my husband's betrayal. I kept putting pressure on myself to reach a place where It no longer hurt and I wouldn't think about it so much but it had the opposite affect. I will always feel pain when thinking about it. Just like I feel pain when I think about my sister's passing 2 years ago. I'll never be ok with my sister dying or my husband's betrayal. Both events changed me forever and I expect some days it will be easier to deal with than others. I accept that it happened and there's nothing I can do to change it. I feel like my decision to stay with him and love him in spite of the betrayal is forgiving him. As long as the good days out number the bad days, I feel like I'm making progress but that's just me. I read something last night that described the way I see forgivness perfectly.....

Forgivness is the conscious decsion to suffer the hurt that rightfully belongs to someone else.

Wow...so much to take in. I will try to answer your questions. But this was great advice and it does get me thinking.

Why now at 18 months am I looking for support? We told no one about this except the people we felt had to know or could help such as our family doctor, my husband's sister, IC (we both had our own), MC and a very close personal friend. So, over the past year and a half, I have read books, done IC, MC, meditation and talks with my husband. I think when I trigger and I look at the time that has passed, I realize that it's not reconciled yet and since I don't really talk about this to anyone, I never know if it's normal to feel what I am feeling at certain times. For instance, a couple of months after DD, we went through a whole honeymoon period where we couldn't get enough of each other. We laughed together and cried together and consoled each other. I have read here that other people have gone through that "we almost lost each other" phase as well. I didn't find that in any books. I found it here through real people. I stumbled upon this site by accident just browsing the internet after someone at work mentioned the name of a hotel in a city where I know this took place. I triggered. And I'm tired of triggering.

My username? I never thought I would be the type to forgive an infidelity. It would be a deal breaker for me. That's back when I was very black and white in my approach to this sort of thing. But now...now, I am married to a man (who I still believe is a wonderful person and father even though he screwed up) who I love and would miss terribly if we were apart. We always said that if we filed for D, we were so compatible that we'd find our way back to each other again anyway. So, I am afraid because he is still the one. If my black and white mentality doesn't let go of this, then D is the only other option. So, I needed to find real people who have R'ed and can tell me that, although this is hard work, it is possible and doubts along the way are expected and...well, normal.

And to Seethelight, it was not an office function and he was not the executive. We have discussed his boundaries in length in MC and he is in agreement that there is an acceptable amount of alcohol and there is a time to go home and also he needs to be more aware that not everyone has innocent intentions. Being preemptive is key.

I have had similar somewhat negative responses from other members on topics I have posted too, you're not alone on that one. My husband is a recovering phone sex, pic sharing and porn addict. He crossed the line alomst a year ago, although I didn't find out until this past March. He advertised himself on CL, found a willing skank, got in his car, drove to a sleezy motel, paid for it, and exchanged oral with some stranger. I rage daily inside. He is in SAA for his addiction and sees a specialized counselor. I can't wait for the day when the mind movies and rage and triggers lessen.

Sounds like you have a good man. Mine is a compulsive liar and seriously troubled person. But I still love him. As long as he continues transparency and counseling and recovery, I will continue to R. Forgiveness? I have never been good at that. Only time will tell if I can handle this new troubling life I have. Good luck and much love to you. I think you have a good shot at successful R.

Hm...I know its upsetting for you, and even though its hard, we all mean well, and we only want to help you.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for me, sometimes when I read newbies stories, I get fired up and angry FOR them. Sometimes Something they say triggers feelings inside me, and the need to protect them is overwhelming. Literally. Like a mother lion with her cub!

I think many on here have posted saying they find your WH story fishy because so many of us have had similar stories.

My WBF told me for nearly 4 months that he never hooked up with the OW, that it was all texting and flirting, and that he only hung out with her once.

I wanted to believe him because it was easier to deny than to admit what I really knew deep down inside.

Of course...he was lying. And when I finally got the whole truth...I was absolutely devastated. And I felt like a fool for believe him for so long. I didn't understand how he could possible sleep at night with such deep dark secrets.

Some waywards come forward and "tell the truth" out of guilt. But they change the story in their favor so that they can get it off their chest, but still seem like the "good person" and the victim, instead of someone who really fucked up.

Maybe something inside you is telling you there's more? Only you can answer that.

Just know that you are not alone, and even those who say things that might upset you, are trying to help you.

I look back and get so angry at myself for believing the lies for so long but, I totally trusted him and, that's what trust does. It believes that there is no way that person would possibly, intentionally hurt you. No way! I think about balancing the checkbook at the end of the month and it doesn't add up. It's just a penny off but....

The stories I heard didn't add up but, I trusted and believed the best from him. He might not be the best person but, he wouldn't do THAT but, he did. Over and over and, I still believed the best.

Id say that the majority of people here go into marriage believing that infidelity would be a deal breaker but, here we all are. Some chose D because, it was what was right for them but, the rest of us are on an internet infidelity forum trying our best to find our way back from the very brink of insanity. From what you say, you have much love for each other so, to me, that's a great start. It doesn't erase any if the pain you feel but, R is totally possible especially when you are really right for each other in every other aspect of life. He messed up royally. You will move past this place when your gut is at rest.

I think you are very normal. Sadly a new normal, but normal.

The search for the answer to your own pain is always shifting and on going. You felt safe and secure within your own two walls and you found out that there are people out there that truly don't care about whether someone is available or not available and will try to "break" into your house. You found out your WS was a little weak at one point and "allowed" someone for a brief moment a way to possibly break into your solid home and marriage. It weakened the wall you thought you both had around your relationship. You feel that no matter what you have done yourself and with your partner that there is a weakness someplace that allowed someone for a brief moment to enter into your "space". It quite literally freaks you out and you are working hard at shoring up your defenses again.

It can be done. R is possible. You love your husband and you feel he has told you everything. That is huge and a blessing. You however found out he is weak, if only for a brief moment and that has you feeling that the ground underneath you is not as solid as it once was, it unnerves us all. He did great in telling you right away, no question, that is a big hurdle to get full disclosure. All that matters is that YOU feel you have what you need from him.

All of this just takes that dreaded word...time...and every day he can be truthful and everyday you have full transparency and everyday you both work at a truthful life is one more day towards R.

M/C is also great as we find many times on here that the A is just the tip of the iceberg of what needs to be talked about in a marriage. For both sides. Hopefully you can find a new one again who will help you both navigate thru your thoughts and feelings during this crazy time in your lives.

Reallyscared

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for me, sometimes when I read newbies stories, I get fired up and angry FOR them. Sometimes Something they say triggers feelings inside me, and the need to protect them is overwhelming. Literally. Like a mother lion with her cub!

I agree with these words.

We don't want you to put your head in the sand, and then be blindsided again.

You deserve the truth. A polygraph can give you that.

The truth, no matter how ugly, will help you make informed decisions and that will help you heal faster.

For instance, a couple of months after DD, we went through a whole honeymoon period where we couldn't get enough of each other. We laughed together and cried together and consoled each other. I have read here that other people have gone through that "we almost lost each other" phase as well.

Yes. That is called hysterical bonding and it's normal and can also be helpful to reconciliation.

Sometimes, though, it can make the betrayed spouse feel used. That is normal too. Also you might see saw back and forth in your feelings and that is normal.

I triggered. And I'm tired of triggering.

My IC told me the triggers will always be triggers, and the intensity will always feel as if it's the first time you found out of the affair.

But, the duration of them will lessen with time and you will rebound from them more quickly, if your spouse is behaving in a loving way when you trigger, and does not get angry and start a fight.

Accepting and moving on from the fact that this happened in your marriage and life is every bit as lengthy, but harder than grieving the loss of said spouse to physical death... When one loses a spouse to physical death one loses the physical presence of the spouse along with all of the hopes and dreams that went with that marriage...But one tends to have support from family and community in dealing with this death..When one deals with the loss of dreams or way of life as he or she knows it thru betrayal/infidelity, there usually gossip/scandal instead of the outpouring of support..

So you are normal. Even if there is no rug sweeping, no new hurts involved, no D to contend with, we are still talking YEARS... It takes that long to move to a place of healthy acceptance that this happened..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:47 AM, June 12th (Thursday)]

Because I wanted to be the only woman in my husbands life since our wedding day and now I can say that I wasn't the only woman in his life since our wedding day. Not in a million years would I have ever expected him to be weak like that

I think that is a big part of what you are struggling with right now. Look, everyone has weak moments. If you are confident he is being truthful, and you feel he is doing everything in his power to show remorse and to take the steps necessary so that you can feel safe and this will never happen again, then at this point, you need to start working on you and forgiveness.

It is normal for infidelity to take a long, very long time, to heal from. It is the breach of trust that is so damaging. Trust if a fragile thing. It takes time to earn, and once lost, takes a much longer time to re-earn.

Hating the OW in your case is also normal, but after a period of time, it is only detrimental to your own healing. It doesn't hurt her that you hate her. She doesn't care. You need to work thru the anger towards her, and then get to the point where you realize she is nothing. Write a letter to her that you don't send, and then burn it or shred it. Write a vent on here to her to help get it out of your system. Say what you need to say, no holds barred. Get the anger and hate out of your system, then look at what she has. Nothing. You have him, not her. He is sticking around, doing the hard work of trying to earn your trust back. And that is not fun nor easy. He could have taken the easy way out and left, or never told you. But he told you, and from what you have said, he is showing remorse and doing everything he can to help you thru this. That does show dedication and caring.

and look at her....she apparently couldn't even get him to finish. And I am sure she did not like the rejection when he stopped things because she slapped him. I am sure it made her feel like a cheap whore. How sad.

However, it could have been any woman. It didn't have to be her. Any woman could have come up to your H and started undressing, and he had a typical male response. It is very difficult for a male not to be somewhat aroused when a naked woman exposes herself. It is a biological reaction, and from what you have said, he came to his senses in order to stop. That took some good willpower.

Infidelity is terrible. It makes a mess of our lives. But it doesn't have to define our lives or even control our lives. Life IS messy, and we all have unpleasant issues that we have to deal with.

But if you and your husband are willing to do the hard work to work thru this (and it is very difficult, soul-baring work), you can come thru this even stronger than before. Stick with us, understand that everyone on here is coming from their own experience and perspectives, and like others say, take what you can use and just thank the others for caring enough to respond, because they DO mean well. (and they are usually right! The first response to my first post was not what I wanted to hear and I left the site for a week. They were right though, I just wasn't ready to hear it)

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 11:54 AM, June 12th (Thursday)]

I just read this whole thread, and as you are searching for ways to let go and heal, maybe it would help to focus on the good that has come of this. One good thing is that this has changed your black and white thinking. It is always easy to think in black and white, but now you are learning that life is really shades of gray. This hopefully will help increase your compassion and aid you in unknown ways. It also has changed your husband for the better in terms of increasing his boundaries, making him a better marital partner. Although it was more fun and much nicer believing your marriage was perfect before this, it wasn't perfect then either. You just weren't aware of potential weaknesses. Now you are and can work to shore them up, so that your marriage in many ways is probably better than it was even with this pain. I don't mean to minimize anything you are going through, but I thought it might be helpful to look at the positives. I'm sure there are others.

My situation had lots of lying, which is also a great thing not to have to deal with. So kudos to your husband for his truthfulness. That's a great aspect of his character.

I am terrified of feeling the way you are 18 months out as I'm only two months out and desperately wishing for all of this to be fully processed and in the past somehow. I know this is completely unrealistic as I am not sure I even want to stay in the relationship. Today I think I do and feel hopeful.

In any case, in my situation there are also positives as I had false illusions too that I no longer have. I think that I have a clearer view of who my husband is, problems in our marriage that predate this, and things I need changed for the future. If you haven't checked it out, you might visit marriage builders.com as I find the ideas and tips there very helpful.

Anyway, good luck on fully reconciling. I think you will get there.

Hi all,

Thanks for all your input. I needed to take a break from the site because I found I was more on the defence than anything. It also led me to bring more things up with my husband, things I already knew the answer to and I hate to relive it and I hate to watch his eyes as he relives it again for me.

One thing that I will take from this site, along with many other things, is that I am being too hard on myself. There is no timeline here and we are committed to getting our old carefree selves back again. He understands that I need to replay it in my head and know all of the details. I do empathize with him though, if that makes any sense at all, for the shame he has inflicted upon himself. We will be laughing some night at something and when he sees me smile, the first thing he does is apologize for taking away so many laughing months. That shame will never leave him. True remorse helps me believe him and believe in us. So I need to give myself time. Pushing myself to let it go just sets me back I believe.

And to all of you who truly believe your WS story, I get it. Sometimes you only need to look into the eyes of someone you promised your life to, and know they are telling the truth. I don't need a polygraph. My IC tells me that because I was so shocked by this, it would make sense that it's taking me some time to overcome it. Not that it lessens it, but if we were the type to be fighting all the time, have financial issues and nothing in common, then it might not be a huge surprise that we would allow space in our marriage for an affair. But the fact that his boundaries or lack thereof, allowed this, has shocked us both. Because we did get along. That takes time too. Absorbing the shock first and then dealing the why and now affair proofing our marriage so this never happens again.

Hugs to you all for all your hurts and your opinions...