SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah. Disgusting. To say your WW has some serious character flaws is an understatement.

I don't know what the legal implications are, but I should save all of these files. I have her yelling about how she never wanted kids to a friend of hers.

I don't remember if I am part owner of that car, in regards to the recordings.

Usually you can't use those at court.

Down the road when you file get one more var and keep it on you in case she snaps and calls the cops with a false RO.

It is way too common at least the cop can hear it and arrest her on a false claim.

WTF if things get bad use this as your trump card.

This is war!

[This message edited by Tom67 at 11:33 PM, July 18th (Friday)]

When you talk to the lawyer, ask him about the possibility of subpoenaing those friends to talk about what whether she at any time made such comments about the kids. Maybe they'll be scared of lying on the stand and tell the truth. That way, you won't have to use the recordings (which I doubt you're legally eligible), but still be able to "use" them indirectly.

Also, save copies in a safe place somewhere. If she ever starts badmouthing you to the kids...

Your lawyer can subpoena the work emails if need be.

Does his wife know about the affair you say you saw his wife's fb page.

If she doesn't know and he lives close to where she and him work PM me and I could help.

Who owns the cell phones? Could you tap that?

Is she trash talking the kids or is she just stating she is at her wits end. Many parents state their children are driving them crazy from time to time.

From what you relay, she really sounds like she is deep in a fog and wants her freedom. Why doesn't she just leave then? Many don't leave due to financial issues or children. She doesn't seem to have an issue with either one.

BTW: be sure to erase your internet history in case she gets your comp and sees what you have been up to.

WW tends to fabricate her reality to fit whatever she needs to accomplish at the time. She has trash talked other people to me, to the point that she is writing them off, then turns it off when she's over it. While I think this is common, she takes it to another level. I think her comments about my daughters go beyond frustration, but I agree that her comments to her two confidants, seem to point towards her wanting freedom and feeling trapped in her marriage.

The thing about that is, she lies. If she is frustrated, she'll say something extreme like that to the person she's talking to, to justify her actions and complaints, or just elicit empathy.

She practically begged me to switch places so she could go back to work, when we moved to the midwest. I reluctantly agreed. Inside of the first year she was already disgruntled at her job and told everyone that she was miserable but she HAD to do it because I was in a car accident and unable to go back to work. THat was a lie. I had a couple of potential jobs lined up before we moved out here. I was in a car accident, a couple of years prior, but I only took two weeks off from work. It never affected anything.

She is an habitual liar.

I honestly don't know why she is still married to me.

That's a tough thing to state out loud.

DG, maybe a bit outside of the box, but perhaps however remote there is a facimilie of a shelter/service for men? Infidelity is emotional rape, and in your circumstance some form of shelter may get you what you need, such as pro bono/reduced fee attorney?

I know you are a vet, and wonder if the VA could guide you toward legal help? Here is the link for VA services... You fucking earned the right by noble service to the country, see what they might do.

https://www.ebenefits.va.gov/ebenefits-portal/ebenefits.portal

Maybe contact your local job Vet rep, local/county vet rep to gain some help? We are going to get you out of this mess with dignity, and strength. No compromise friend, never!

What whiney little babies with their mid life crisis crap. They tear up so many lives, then run off to be "happy", leaving all responsibilities behind. Check in with them a few years down the road and they are unhappy....again. Self entitled, narcissistic. It takes a good 25-30 years for them to really get how much they fucked up and fucked other people lives, if they have a sliver of character to admit it to themselves.

DG you are going to have to put your life back together brick by brick. I know you already know this. But don't worry, mark my words, you will build it faster than you thought. You will get a good new job. Your relationship with your girls will be strong. You will be OK. You are going through the hardest part...so just keep going.

1. Keep looking for a good lawyer. Take extra cash everytime you go to the grocery store and set aside.

2. Get signed up for retraining now. There are lots of online classes. More than just Sql. Put it on a credit card. Your wife can pay for it.

3. Gather evidence. Detach detach detach.

[This message edited by Salt at 1:10 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]

What whiney little babies with their mid life crisis crap. They tear up so many lives, then run off to be "happy", leaving all responsibilities behind. Check in with them a few years down the road and they are unhappy....again. Self entitled, narcissistic. It takes a good 25-30 years for them to really get how much they fucked up and fucked other people lives, if they have a sliver of character to admit it to themselves.

Salt: so true. Sometimes it just makes my stomach turn and my blood boil that these WS are and think like that. So sad that we BS, have to deal with adults that act like toddlers with their tantrums and sense of entitlement. Sad thing is that thinking back on our relationships, half the time we enabled them and didn't even realize it.

No wonder why half of us are having/or had issues being estranged after month 6. How can we not be disgusted by our WS or resentful that we have another child to take care of.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:15 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]

Just wanted to post and say that you seem to be doing great.

WW tends to fabricate her reality to fit whatever she needs to accomplish at the time. She has trash talked other people to me, to the point that she is writing them off, then turns it off when she's over it.

As an FYI this is not normal and I can understand why you are worried about getting a D from her. Once you confront make sure you ALWAYS have a VAR on you. While you might not be able to use the recordings in court I have heard of people on this forum using them with the police if the wife claims domestic violence.

I never would have thought of the fake abuse police call until folks on this forum suggested it.

Thanks!

First session with new MC today. Very good MC. She's been doing it for a long time. The cool thing about this is, I get to say things that I normally can't in every day conversation. WW had to say out loud that she had an affair for 3 months, then listen to me rehash the entire story of how i found out, along with the two days of TT until she finally fessed up. She was more pissed off than remorseful, but I'll take what I can get.

I did mention the D word in the course of the session, but she has no idea that I'm actually shopping for lawyers.

Shock, Salt, Free, and everyone else... I am once again on the path to feeling empowered. Last week, Sunday was my downfall. Going to work extra hard to stay strong tomorrow. I will do this, I will get through this, and so will my girls. Well, I am worried about my girls, but I know that staying with my lying, cheating, secretive WW is not a permanent option. If she had shown me her electronics on the day I asked to see them, there might have been a chance.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:01 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]

Sounds like it went well and I imagine your wife having to hear you say the truth in front of a professional MC humbled her even if she only showed anger. Or knocked her off of her pedestal, feeling mightier than you.

If she had shown me her electronics on the day I asked to see them, there might have been a chance.

Did this come up today or anything about transparency.

I had mentioned the electronics in the context of saying that I never had any proof that the affair ended, other than WW saying she did it. When she said she did it, she said she used her phone. After I saw that call wasnt on our phone bill, she swears she did it via her work phone. EVENTUALLY, we will get to this again in MC, I'm sure. I'll tell her that it's easy to solve, she can get the office phone bill for me. She'll make an excuse why she can't, of course.

DG

You are doing great. Bide your time.

Take all you need to make your plans come out what will be best for you and your girls.

Your wife is immature. But worse than that? She is selfish.

Keep the recordings in a safe place. And when you think the time is right make your wife sit down and listen to herself berating her kids. But worse than that making a fool of herself sounding like an immature, selfish person.....

She needs to hear it.

It might just be what you need to free yourself from her and give her the freedom she so desperately seeks.

It might also show her just what a miserable person she is. Maybe she will do something about it instead of cheating, lying and abusing her family.

Stay tough. Keep being a great Dad.

HM

PS

Chopped/ingOnions hid the pen var in a seam of her leather bag. It was small enough that she never saw it. It was sensitive enough that it picked up all of her phone calls.

It's good that you had one MC session, IMO--it may have given your WW some idea of the work necessary to R. Hopefully the MC conveyed the gravity of the situation and revealed some of what would be required, LONG-TERM, for you and your marriage to heal from her duplicity.

Now that you've had that trial appointment, I'd now completely table MC, because there is absolutely no value in MC with a remorseless spouse still engaged in an affair.

I'd tell WW, "Well, that was an interesting experience, and I hope you now have a more realistic idea of what it might take to work through some of these issues in MC. However, I won't be returning until you've ended your affair, identified your affair partner, sent an NC letter with me, provided access to your electronics---from which you will have deleted absolutely nothing from this date forward, and attended enough IC that you have improved coping tools before we embark on joint therapy. Because I'm not willing to endanger my emotional well-being by going out on a limb with a person who can't provide even the bare minimum required for reconciliation post-infidelity."

Truly, attending MC with a remorseless spouse still in an affair is akin to handing her a baseball bat and saying, "Please, hit me about the face and neck repeatedly," or offering her steel-toed boots to kick you in the nuts. It's emotional suicide.

You will not make marital progress, you will not reconcile, and the potential for real, lasting emotional harm to YOU is astronomical.

Stick with IC until you've got a spouse who's committed to R. By committed, I mean, one who's copped to her affair, identified her affair partners, gone NC, provided access to electronics, and so on.

180 in the meantime. 180, sans discussion of the future of your marriage. She has too much work to do for "future" to even be a consideration. That doesn't mean you can't cohabit, as grueling as that becomes with a remorseless cheater. It means that it's unrealistic to expect anything more than a roommate with a bad history---and by that, I mean a roommate who's shown a willingness to harm you.

You're not just throwing good money after bad at this point with MC, and putting your emotional well-being on the line.

Just a forewarning DG, lets say for whatever reason you are staying with her as roommates, know the experience is, and will be PURE HELL... The kids will pick up on the vibe/tension even if you are as pleasant as a saint, and seeing her come and go with what you do know is no fun, and I hope gets you to the anger stage. Good luck.

she swears she did it via her work phone

next MC, bring up the fact you would feel much better if you saw a NC end of affair letter and watch her send it.

A phone bill from work might not be possible.

When the subject of rebuilding trust comes up, hammer home the point of transparency. And when she brings up trust, tell her that the her affair destroyed all past trust and it now has to be built up again.

Saying this at MC gets you on the record of stating exactly at least one of your conditions.

The VAR conversations should be quite interesting next week.

I think your wife is slowly learning the world doesn't revolve around her anymore.

Has she read any books yet about what it takes to actually R.

I don't see any hope of R.

I want it, but I can't live without transparency.

Looking for attorney for an idea of what i can expect. I need a job. There's a lot to do.