SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BS here..

You're chasing the easy way out and freedom, which doesn't exist. It may seem to exist in the short-term, but you'll ultimately crash and burn chasing it.

You have two young children. You will not be "free" if you are divorced. You will forever have a relationship with your husband through those children. You will have to work on SOME kind of R with him regardless of your choice to be married.

This post strikes me as very me-driven. You want freedom. you felt like you gave up stuff to try and R - yet what you posted sounds to me like standard family stuff that should've been happening all along. You didn't take your husband's pain to heart when he said you didn't get it. You want to date again. You want validation. You want you.

You are broken. Regardless of whether you stay with your husband or not, you need to work on healing yourself before you think about dating. You have children who need you to model healthy relationships. Your future partners need to have someone who is not a ticking affair time bomb. Mostly, you need to heal yourself so that you are a whole person again who does not need the validation of others, who does not feel the need to seek out "freedom." It's a grass is greener outlook, and the grass will never be greener.

It is also the same cycle that seems to lead WS to affairs - there are issues and instead of working on them, the WS finds a different outlet.

As a BS, the idea of tossing a timeline and "I'm unsure if you're worth it" is just horrifying. To me it smacks more of the entitled "my happiness and what I want are all that I'm focused on." I think it's fine to admit you are broken and lost and are working on it. I think it's even fine to say "I do not know if the issues can be fixed, but I am willing to give myself 200% for the next x months trying to figure that out and work on them."

Regardless, though, you need to try and empathize with your husband - whether he becomes your ex or not. If you do not want to be married to your husband, I would hope those reasons would come from something more deep-seated than wanting the easy way out where you don't have to do work or do the deep reflection.

I hope you read How to Help Your Spouse Heal and NOT Just Friends. I think you need perspective on what has happened to the world - your husband and your family - through your actions. You have detonated a bomb in your house and have finally taken the blindfold off your husband so that he can see the extent of your destruction. Instead of empathizing with his pain, shock, horror that everything he knew is gone - you want to walk out of the house and leave him standing in the rubble while you find a new house.

I know my post comes across as harsh. These underlying things are the same reason I told my husband that he needs to fix *him.* Our marriage, yes, help me heal, yes. But ultimately to get at any of that, he needs to work on healing *himself* and want this for himself, whether we stay together or not. Because he can't live life as a broken person, and our children deserve a father who is whole and who can model what relationships should be.

Lark -

Thank you for "As a BS, the idea of tossing a timeline and "I'm unsure if you're worth it" is just horrifying. To me it smacks more of the entitled "my happiness and what I want are all that I'm focused on."

I am notorious for saying things I think are "good" and being called out on them being selfish and that's a prime example. I'm very selfish and I know it but I'm so into myself I can't even identify it anymore, it's just so natural to me. And that terrifies me. How do I repair 33 years of selfishness? I'm not saying that as "whoa is me" but just showing that I am afraid of this whole healing process and that maybe I'm just intrinsically a very bad person, in which case my spouse does deserve to move on for sure.

I just got my copy of How To Help Your Spouse Heal in the mail last night and I have Not Just Friends, as well as one more book, reserved at the library, so I'm working on getting read up.

You are not a bad person. Selfish? Yeah probably, but we all are to an extent.

What I do see is a woman who keeps her feelings bottled up in fear that she might offend others and cause them not to like her. Your need for external validation, I think, is at the very core of all your issues.

If you don't deal with it, the circular behavior will continue, and you will cheat again, either on your present husband or future partner.

SFN,

Why do you need people to like you?

I haven't read the replies so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else said. I relate to a lot of what you said re: needing validation from an external source and having an ED. I think you're remorseful/regretful re: hurting your husband and wreaking havoc on your family rather than because you're facing a divorce - does that make sense?

I was raised by a mom who desperately cares about what other people think of her. I think I just picked it up from her but I don't know how to change that fear I have. I just really can't stand if people might not like me. I can't ignore an email because it might make someone mad, no matter how much I know I need to ignore it.

I think I'm getting to the roots of my problem which is good and unbelievably helpful - thank you guys so much. You seriously have no idea how much I appreciate all of you!

scaredsorry - yes, that does make sense - it's hard to separate those sometimes, but I think you're right

Another thought is that it's easier to be told what to do (we're getting divorced) than to figure out what you want to do. I always thought life was black and white. This all happened and now I see more gray than I ever thought possible.

To echo, exwayward -

you are not a bad person. The bad people are the ones who do not care at all. That you are here shows otherwise.

we are all broken, and we are all selfish. That's part of being human.

If it helps at all - BS have a long internal, reflective road to climbing the mountain of healing as well. After an affair, we all come face-to-face with the realization we need to change wher e we are. For BS, we have to face a lot of difficult questions about ourselves and the M pre-affair and post-affair as well , compounded by feeling like before that internal climb, the WS beat us to the point we can barely move. It'd be easy for the BS to say "look, he broke my feet, I can't do this climb" or "I shouldn't have to do this, he's the one who beat me up" or "look, his mountain is way higher than mine, I may have a mountain but it is small by comparison and I'll just stay where I am." And some BS just give up and walk down the mountain entirely.

But in the end, we all have to do that climb if we want to get out of this hell. And we have to do it alone and for ourselves, even if we're supporting and healing our spouse as they do their climb. If we're able to do it, we'll wind up healthier because of the climb. The M has a mountain to climb too and that's done together, but the individual mountains have to be tackled whether you take on the M mountain or not.

here are some things that your said:

1. i can stand when people are mad at me, they have to like me.

2. D is an appropriate punishment

3. I like the "harsh" responses they hit home

4. Eating disorder based on control - I don't deserve food

So where from your past did this pattern develop?

Do you loved by being punished?

Why is "Easy attention" more rewarding than genuine actions of love?

Something that I find unfair in this thread is:

You have all of the information and want to make a decision as to whether to D or R. But YOU ARE NOT GIVING YOUR BS THE SAME INFORMATION. You are still hiding your feelings. It sounds like you are still withholding feeling/thoughts/actions from your A from your BS because it might be too much for him. And that would take away you options.

LET GO OF THE OUTCOME. For once, let him make an educated decision. Or, you are going to not be able to be truly open and honest with him and have an intimate relationship.

If you are actually having thoughts of being happy and single. Than why wouldn't you tell him those thoughts and truths? Because he might D you? But I thought you were happy with that?

You are trying to control the outcome. One thing I can say for sure. BS have hyper-vigilant sensory. Your BS already knows you are hiding things from him. He already knows that you are dishonest with him. And he already knows that you are not being honest with yourself. The simple point is HE ALREADY KNOWS. So what have you got to lose? What is the worst case scenario?

Here is the bottom line from my experience:

I didn't want to hurt my BS either - guess what the minute I acted out. I hurt her. she just didn't know it yet. What you are really saying is I am covering my own ass because I do not want to take accountability for my actions. So I do not want my choices taken away from me until I can sort it all out.

I understand the thoughts, on not trusting myself to be faithful. In the early days for me I knew that if I stopped healing at those points I was not sure that I could be faithful either. So what I did was commit to myself that I would heal. I knew that if I healed I would not act out again. That helped give me confidence.

All that comes down to this:

1. you are possibly still in the fog

2. you still have wayward thinking

3. you are not sure whether you want R or D

4. you do not want your BS to make that decision

5. you are not letting go of the outcome

6. you are not being open and honest

7. you have to heal for you whether R or D or you will be back here again in your next relationship

Something my BS has told on several occasions. "The most cruel thing you can do to somebody, is have an exit A and not exit."

A lot of what you're saying is similar (not identical) to what my STBXH said.

He walked out, thinking it would be easier to walk away, fresh start, all that.

In some ways it is because he is in denial about certain things:

- He refuses to see the pain the children are in, Even when they tell him, he minimises it, tries to change the subject and then puts it in the box in head head marked DO NOT OPEN. He truly believes they are fine emotionally. The reality is that the youngest still checks that I am here each morning. They both pray each night that he will come back and we'll be a family again. The children have their own emotional triggers when waves of hurt sweep over them,often coming out as anger.

- He believes we can be friends. The reality is that he has treated me worse than his worst enemy. If he was willing to truly R, we might be able to get past that. But without that desire from him to heal the damage he caused...how could he ever be a friend? I'm civil, for the sake of the children. At the moment, the pain is so great that I can barely look at him. I'm aiming to feel nothing for him. I will never be his friend because I would never be friends with anyone who had treated me like that, with no remorse. I am worth more than that.

- He believes we will both be happier apart. The reality is that unless he does some long, tough work on himself, he will keep repeating this pattern. He runs away rather than do the hard work...he will keep running every time (and so will you) unless he learns to do things differently. He will not be happier long term. Funnily enough, I will be happier, because I am doing my own hard work on myself. I will be a more whole person than when he left. But I was already doing this work and he could have benefited from that too. I believe that if he had been willing to do the hard work of R with me, then we could have been happier as a whole, together, than we are as a whole , apart.

He also thought he'd be ok financially with a new start. Actually,he's getting further and further into debt, to the extent that he wants to negotiate our financials by email, rather than using solicitors or mediation...a recipe for disaster. Yet he's still taking the children out for expensive trips, because of the guilt/shame he feels at splitting our family apart.

His family are disgusted with him and are hurting, but still reaching out. He hardly talks to them anymore, avoids them. You see, the only people he surrounds himself with now,are people who are cheaters themselves,or who don't know me. He can't bear to be around lifelong friends and family, so his circle of friends are work colleagues who only know the image of himself and our marriage that he has painted for them. He cannot face people who know more than that. His old friends used to be a huge part of his life. I find it hard to believe he's really happy at leaving them behind.

Oh, and he thought he could run away from me, from the reminder of what he'd done. But he has to see me every week to exchange the children, and will do so for at least the next decade....You will have to see your BH too.

Now if you're done, you're done. But please don't think D is the easy option. Also, don't assume that your BH will stay friends during D. He doesn't trust you. Why should he? So how do you think that will play out during a D? How do you think that will work when your co-parenting over the years to come? Neither R or D are easy, and if you're heading for D simply because you want to run away....you can't run from yourself, honey.

First, thank you for starting these threads, the responses are so helpful to me. It's frightening how similar many of our paths are.

Second, an observation from your threads

I have a desperate desire to be liked by everyone and to avoid conflict and I'll do anything to have things be as good as possible

I think I'm seing that in action! I like you You are incredibly polite, responding to every post and mostly agreeing with everyones' point of view. But people pleasing in a M is a recipe for disaster. I'm a BTDT. Now is your chance to be real with your H. It'll be hard. Probably harder than telling him about the A. Also likely the only thing that could save your M.

familyfirst is very wise.

scaredsorry - you know, last night my husband said that to me - that I am letting other people control my future instead of taking ownership and going after what I want for it. That was a great insight you had. Thank you.

DrJekyll - yes, I am hiding thoughts/feelings/etc from the affair still - I just don't know what to share and what not to. I know he's not the type to want details about the actual affair so I assume he doesn't want other information that would be painful either. Like am I supposed to be honest and tell him the good part I was getting from the affair instead of just telling him how I regret it ever happened? Do I really tell him how good it felt and that's why I couldn't stop myself? I guess I do....and you're right, I do need to tell him exactly how I'm feeling about a D. He needs to know I'm not sure about R so he can make a decision for himself based on that knowledge.

Softcentre - thank you. I can see I'm not like your STBXH in many ways but you're right, I can't run from myself.

familyfirst - you're totally right (here I am agreeing ) The thing is I just don't realize what it is I need to be honest about. I was honest that I had a PA but I haven't been able to give him a good reason why it happened. I think I'm close to knowing it though so I do plan to talk to him about it tonight. Do I need to be more honest about how it happened? Right now I basically told him that I did have a PA and when it happened. He hasn't asked more so I haven't said more. I don't know what information is important to volunteer up and what's not. That's why I say nothing at all. He keeps telling me he expects me to say something but I'm at a loss of what to say.

I do realize I need to say how I'm feeling about staying married/getting a divorce which is going to be hard.

I ultimately really want to stay M I think, but I feel like right now I'm not at a place to do that. I need a lot of help before I'll stop straying I think. I really wish he'd agree to a separation but he won't - it's either M or D for him. I can't blame him, but I feel like our M has the best chance if we can S and I can work on myself and we can work on our relationship during that time, but still have that separation between us. If that makes any sense at all.

If you separate and leave he house all you will be doing is giving yourself permission to go out and either start sleeping around with new men or you will hook up with the OM.

That is not being fair or kind to your hubby. All it is is running away. You want him to hate you and despise you forever? Take the route that so many other walk away wives and husbands did, and you will be despised by your kids , your husband and your family. We have all seen it played out time and again.

A true trial separation means you stay celibate, you go to IC, you figure out why you have shit for boundaries, you and husband only see each other for MC once a week, you don't date other people, you slowly start dating and courting your husband again...and above all you give it a set duration. At the end of whatever time you and your husband agree to stay apart, you come back at the end and together make the decision as to whether you want to stay together or not. It's hard ass work. It's ugly work. It's painful work.

You gotta make a choice. If you want to be free to date others the just file for divorce. Don't drag it out. If you are going to move out, file for divorce and be done with it. And remember, just because you two file doesn't mean you cannot get back together later or even remarry.

You both have so much work to do on yourselves it's unreal.

I'm not running away from this post but I am headed home (to talk with my BH) and probably won't be back until tomorrow afternoon or maybe even Mon or Tue. I appreciate all of your input and advice and thoughts. Thank you!