SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No the necklace wasnt for being with other men. It was to do something nice for her and to try to help repair us.

Like I said, I dont know what to do. Im doing the best that I can right now. I have good days and I have bad days.

Sometimes I feel like we're closer than we've ever been and sometimes, after looking through affair emails, I feel sick.

Sometimes I want to just says the past is the past and be do e with all the affairs. And start a new life together. Is that wrong?

She says she doesn't have feelings for these men and that she only thought she was in love with the one man.

She told me the other day that she now feels like she's gotten gods forgiveness from the affairs. I didn't really know how to take it. I'm still hurting and truth be told, I want her to still hurt from it.

[This message edited by Thumper1 at 11:45 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]

Thumper, I am sorry. I know I am being harsh, but I am hoping some "tough love" will wake you up.

Your WW doesn't deserve expensive gifts right now. Sorry. That is just the truth.

I understand that you want to reconcile and that does mean being "nice" to each other. However, you are under the impression that you did something to cause your WW to do this, it seems to me. Your WW isn't being "nice" to you because she is still lying. She isn't being "nice" if she feels she should have some "privacy". She has changed all the rules, behind your back, and now she has to pay the consequences of that. She has to be willing to accept that if she wants to continue in a marriage with you this will be the way it is going to be.

Complete and utter TRANSPARENCY with a freaking smile on her face and gratitude in her heart.

Thumper

I am sorry but you are still totally in denial. These other men just wanted to fuck your wife and if you do not think she did a lot more you are wrong. You are correct in telling her you are doing everything you should be doing by monitoring her and she is telling you she wants to be free to do what she wants.

Your statement she can continue to pal with this friend so she can be happy is naive and you will be sorry .

She is telling you

(1) I did all this stuff but you don't need to know everything because I think we should move on

(2) I need my privacy so if I want to do this again you may not catch me because I will be smarter.

(3) I'll hang around and go out with my friends who are cheating on their husbands. And it's none of your business where I go or what I do. Just trust me?

(4) since I do not want to tell you any more I will be angry and pissed if you continue to bother me with this

(5) I wl miss you and give you sex so you will give me my way

Now read those and tell me where you see any remorse here.

You are telling her that no matter what she has done or what she does you want R and will out up with anything to make her happy.

Sorry for the 2x4 but you will be hurting for a long time. She has absolutely no consequences other than you looking at her e mail . She should be doing everything to help you and please you. She satisfied her own needs with multiple men.

She retains the option to do it again .

Good luck

Yea but how do I make her see that and have a "smile on her face" about it?

Badhurt,

I understand what you are saying with your points. But I dont plan on giving up access to her email anytime soon. And I have her phone backed up daily and I will continue to check it and her find my iphone whenever she goes somewhere. Whether she likes it or not. Ive even thought about buying one of the applications to track everything on her phone but it requires a jailbreak and I want it to be hidden. Or maybe I shouldnt want it hidden. Maybe I should tell her that im doing that and when she gets upset say tough shit.

[This message edited by Thumper1 at 11:55 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]

ETA: It took me a looong time to write the following (interrupted by a phone call), so I missed a number of posts.

atsenaotie's is particularly important for you to absorb, IMO.

*******************************************

I want us to be open and honest with each other and thats what im trying to be.

I'm with you 100% on this. For the M to rebuild, you both need to be honest. Every question she answers honestly builds a little trust. Every question she refuses to answer subtracts a little trust. (IMO, trust can go negative.)

I think you're being wise here.

So when do you trust that you've got all the info you need? I think that differs for all of us.

OTOH, when written texts and emails say one thing and her mouth says another, I go with what the doc says. Until a WS finds remorse, you should assume she's lying when she generates a sound.

She says it hurts her to relive the affair.

Well, it does. It's very painful, whether she's truly remorseful or just sorry she got caught. But what did she expect? She did this to herself, and actions have consequences....

For you to R well, she's got to change from cheater to good partner. One of the very first steps is to 'own' - take responsibility for - what she did, and she does that in part by answering your questions honestly.

Not talking about her As is a way of avoiding responsibility.

Coupling this with her continued friendship with another cheating W, I'd say she's a very poor candidate for R right now.

Your MC sounds like he believes you can love her back into your M. That makes her the prize, and you the supplicant. I don't get that at all.

You're the prize. She needs to win you back - by being remorseful, going NC with her men and her cheating friend, being honest and transparent. She needs to get into IC to figure out how to change from cheater to good partner.

I've heard this approach from Christian Cs on radio, but I've also heard Christian Cs who make great sense. They advocate the approach that you're reading in these responses, but within a Christian context. IOW, I think you'd do better with a C who is more experienced in helping couples R.

Forgive, yes - but my advice is to do so only after you're sure she's repented.

You sound like you know what it takes to heal. Giving up your demand for honesty would hurt you, your W, and your M.

I understand your W's lying when she was laid up, but she has no excuse now. Yet she keep's lying and keeps up her friendship with her WS/ow partner in crime. Protect yourself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:05 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]

Because you need to set your boundaries of what you will and will not accept.

Make a list. Post it here. Let us help you refine it. Is she willing to do these things for as long as it takes? If she isn't willing to do what you need her to do, she isn't remorseful and not a good candidate for reconciliation.

You need a VAR in her car. And a GPS on it. The first thing serial cheaters do, and your wife is one, is get themselves a burner phone so don't count on the I phone. She could leave it at work and go Fuck some guy at lunch and you would never know.

Your snooping needs to be concealed. She already knows you are watching so she will take it to the next level.

But here is your problem. You already know what she has done, maybe not all the details but enough to make someone sick. And do you want to be in snooping mode for months or years.

That is why everyone keeps talking to you about the word remorse . And you are getting nothing but regret she got caught.

You must blow up that relationship with her cheating best friend . Do you realize that her friend could be keeping her in touch with other men or providing cover for her. Are you going to tell me that you are going to sit there and have her tell you they are going out after work with this woman. The way for you to do that is to expose the friend to her husband. It will take one major potential problem off your plate. Right now she and this friend are probably talking day about how unreasonable you are and your wife is getting nothing but support for this friend to stand her ground.

Please do not tell us how mad she would be. Your problem is instead of being mad at your wife you are buying her gifts.

You must accept the fact that she did all this, all by herself , and only she can stop it.

Your wife is not all in. Everyone here is telling you that. You will see a lot of times this saying"

"You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it"

I do t think yours can be saved , sorry, but it certainly will not be saved by you "nicing" her back, which is what you are trying to do.

Read so e of the posts on wayward side. There are women quitting jobs, voluntarily and happily being totally transparent to their husbands, and willing to move mountains for the gift of R.

Your wife is resentful, and is totally in control because you are being determined to R at all costs. That is a losing proposition.

When she believes that you may leave her you may see some change.

All this is confusing, and there are some different opinions but the one thing that everyone has responded to you has said is that your wife is not committed to R or you and that she is just covering her ass.

Thumper,

My situation is different but I beg you to listen to the folks up the thread. Your wife cannot lie to you about how many men she had intercourse all week long and then go to church with you on Sunday and that be progress. It's not progress. It's rugsweeping and it's setting her up to continue what she has been doing. She's not remorseful and she quite possibl is still cheating, just gone underground with it. You need to put VAR in her car and GPS. You need to install keylogging and surveillance software on the home computer(s). You need to be an advocate for yourself in this relationship because as of right now it is not a partnership. If it were, you wouldn't have to ask a bunch of strangers if "your pussy made my dick sore" is proof or not that she had intercourse with him. Please discontinue marital counseling. It IS a waste of time and money because she's not bringing honesty into the room. And get yourself into individual counseling, stat. Big hugs to you.

I tell her how beautiful she is and how much I love her.

Thumper1, this is as good a place as any for you to start. Why do you love a woman who went outside the M to have sex with other men? Why do you love a woman who had so little regard for you? I ask you these questions as a man who once had to find these answers for myself. Any honest evaluation of your situation would have to conclude that your WW is not acting very lovable right now.

While she may be beautiful on the outside, the inside turned to other men to help her to feel whole and OK about herself. She had sex with multiple other men in an effort to feel better about herself. This does not sound like a beautiful person to me. It sounds like a damaged and selfish person.

It may be that you are still feeling love for and seeing your wife and M as you THOUGHT they were as opposed to who and what they actually are. Tis is normal, many of us had to struggle past projecting our dreams and desires onto our WWs and M in order to see the reality. It may be that you have insecurity about yourself and fear losing your WW, even if she is treating you and the marriage in a most horrible way.

Sometimes I want to just says the past is the past and be do e with all the affairs. And start a new life together. Is that wrong?

Yes, it is wrong because whatever problems inside of your WW led her to turn to sex acts with OM as a way to soothe and affirm herself are still there. We see people here on SI who rug sweep to start over with a newly loving and supposedly former wayward spouse, only for them to show up here again a few years later after another A. Even if she does not have another A, she lacks the coping and communication skills to be an emotionally intimate partner in your M. These are part of her issues that she needs to address for your M to have sustainable hope. I am not saying you may not have issues to work on also, most of us do, but she clearly does.

Keep reading, keep posting. This all takes a while to absorb, as does the reality of a wayward spouse. But trust us, you cannot nice her back into the M.

--Ats

Is staying with an unremorseful entitled serial cheater really something you want to deal with the rest of your life?

Your WW should have no expectation of privacy and should be welcoming transparency and actively working to rebuild your trust.

Many people reconcile by accepting but not forgiving. Dont feel pressured to forgive and continue to read the evidence until YOU no longer need to. Your WW is rug sweeping and seems clueless as to her role and responsibilty for R.

[This message edited by whattheh at 2:12 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]

Wow...you find a pic of her with a butt plug in...one that was taken by another man, so you know what else he probably did to her ass & yet you buy her a diamond necklace????

PLEASE listen to what these GREAT people are telling you. They are right.

I am just livid about the abuse dealt to you by your WW. And that you seem somewhat OK with it.

March her cheating ass in for a lie detector test ASAP & then you will get your answers. Also make sure & let her friends BH know about his wife. Then she & your WW will have something else to discuss at work instead of comparing cheating stories.

But PLEASE get tough.

Also I am Catholic & have prayed to the good Lord above to forgive me for my A years ago so much that I am sure He is sick of hearing from me. And I still can never say I feel He has forgiven me, so that is just total bs with her saying that. I will worry till the day I die & so should she. It is like she feels that God has forgiven her, so you should to, but yet you dont even have the full truth.

Sending much "tough" strength & "nice" hugs your way.

Wow...you find a pic of her with a butt plug in...one that was taken by another man, so you know what else he probably did to her ass & yet you buy her a diamond necklace????

But PLEASE get tough.

You need to read the above every hour and maybe you will see how astonishing what you are doing is to most of us who have gone through this before.

i doubt the recommendations will change even when you get to 100 posts. The question is how much pain wil;l you endure before you get it.

I know you are hurting and want this to go away. It will not. The other posters are right. You gave her a present for su**ing off several OM. So you are okay with her mouth on their d**ks and her swallowing their cum as long as they did not put it in her? What's the differnce? The OM got his. Probably was happy that he did not have to reciprocate. I feel bad for you but you need to get your head out your a** or get used to the taste of OM's semen when you kiss her. She is not remorseful and you cannot reconcil thsi way.

***UPDATE***

I've been checking her phone and email since I found out. Since my last post I haven't found anything. She has been very good to me. We've had sex a couple times, greets me at the door, sends me texts throughout the day to see how my days been. Sure I see the info I told you in black and white. But she did tell me that if I read her texts and emails that I would find things out that looked bad but weren't true. In reality, even if she's still in denial about the sex with this guy, what difference does it really make? He isn't communicating with her anymore. The one time he tried, she immediately showed me. I blocked the people on her Facebook. I keep a check on her work email and all the sent/deleted emails, and I've found nothing.

The facts are we had grown distant, she cheated on me, slept with at least 2 men, had oral sex with several more, had a life altering wreck, now she wants to be with me as much as possible.

I can't change the past, but I can make sure that this doesn't happen again. She knows that I will leave if it ever happens again. Sure the thoughts still haunt me and I don't know that I'll ever get over it completely. But I do love her and I believe that she loves me. And I can plainly see that she's a different person. We're both trying to make it work, and it seems to me that we're doing a good job at that.

Hope all is going well for you. I agree with a VAR in her car and others placed strategically. No more MC. But both of you go to IC. Also you both need STD testing. I see myself when I read this. I tried to nice her back too. It sucked. It didn't work. Just like everyone here is telling you. But I get what your trying to do. But it's a mistake. Sometimes you just have to figure it out yourself. I ignored the advice too. I was different. Yea right. This shit becomes predictable after reading here for a few years.

I know your world is upside down. We All get it because we've been there. But if you really want to save your marriage then you need to play hard ball. Being mr softy is going to be the biggest mistake of your life. Weomen don't respect wimps.

No more presents and gifts for her. Your killing your chances at R.

Suggest you go see an attorney. Yup. Go get divorce papers drawn up. Then let her know either she comes clean with you or your gonna file because you will never heal until the truth is told. Print out all email and go through each one with her. Identify each partner and then I'd do my best to contact their wives to inform them what kind of person they are married to. Your wife is damaged goods. Protect yourself.

I post because I care. I see me in you. And want to try and help. I did it all wrong and now were divorcing. It sucks.

Hi Thumper,

I'm glad you are having a good couple of weeks with your WW but nothing has really changed. Please get STD testing, continual STD testing, at the very least.

Sure I see the info I told you in black and white. But she did tell me that if I read her texts and emails that I would find things out that looked bad but weren't true.

If you are okay with her lying to you about sore pussy/dick texts meaning that the only had oral so long as she greets you at the door, that's your right. But she IS lying.

In reality, even if she's still in denial about the sex with this guy, what difference does it really make?

She's not in denial, though. You are. She's perfectly clear that she's lying to you about how she fucked a guy so long his dick hurt. The difference it makes is that there are 7 billion people on earth and about 3.5 billion of them are men and this is not about her talking to one particular man; it's about her having the integrity to not go outside of her M with ANY man.

He isn't communicating with her anymore.

Via a method you have found.

The one time he tried, she immediately showed me. I blocked the people on her Facebook. I keep a check on her work email and all the sent/deleted emails, and I've found nothing.

Apps, burner phones, burner email accounts, calls from the landline at work, text messages, etc., etc.

The facts are we had grown distant, she cheated on me, slept with at least 2 men, had oral sex with several more, had a life altering wreck, now she wants to be with me as much as possible.

I hope she still wants to be with you as much as possible when she's more recovered from the wreck, truly.

I can't change the past, but I can make sure that this doesn't happen again.

No, you can't.

She knows that I will leave if it ever happens again.

She knows that you say that but that you are also accomodating her past/current cheating.

Sure the thoughts still haunt me and I don't know that I'll ever get over it completely. But I do love her and I believe that she loves me. And I can plainly see that she's a different person. We're both trying to make it work, and it seems to me that we're doing a good job at that.

I'm glad you think that. I think she's rugsweeping. She has the broom and you are holding up the rug. I hope I am wrong. Best to you both. Stay vigilant and please get tested for STD's.

Thumper1,

I just read your thread, and truthfully do not know whether I want to give you a bear hug((t1)) or (well, I'm not sure what!)

I know this is all so overwhelming to you BUT you did come here for advice. With over 40K+ people here you are right...you will get advice. Advice from all who have been in your shoes (and some even worse). Our advice is not to beat you up, or down. It is purely to help another BS navigate thru these depths of hell, and maybe come out of it with less scars than the rest of us.

That being said,

She has been very good to me

No, sweetie. She is blowing smoke up your ass to get YOU to back away.

I would find things out that looked bad but weren't true.

Again, she is blowing smoke up your ass!! Things look bad because they ARE bad!!

if she's still in denial about the sex with this guy, what difference does it really make

It WILL make a big difference to YOU when you come out of the shock of all of this!

now she wants to be with me as much as possible

No, she wants to divert your attention from what she is doing to what she can make you believe she is doing. HUGE difference!!

I can make sure that this doesn't happen again. She knows that I will leave if it ever happens again

There is NO way in all of hell that YOU can make sure that SHE doesn't betray you again. NEVER, ever! And I am so sorry, but she does NOT know you will leave her. You are showing her, by buying her presents, date nights etc that if she plays her cards right, let's things cool down a bit, that you will still be here when you have DD2.

I am so, so sorry that she is still playing you. Please know you are not the first to be played at the beginning, nor will you, unfortunately, be the last.

What YOU can do is re-read all the advice you have been given. Look at it as if this was your BFF's life, not yours. And see if you might not agree with the advice.

Please go to the I Can Relate section and read the Men's thread. There are some very amazing guys to help guide you thru this. They have BTDT!

DO NOT let anyone tell you that you MUST forgive and forget!! Forgiveness can be just for yourself. Forget??? Sorry, but we will all be taking this shit to our graves!! It is now part of your history. Doesn't mean it has to rule your future, and many of us have come out on the other side, but it will always be there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a lecture. My heart just hurts so badly for you.

Please, please, please take to heart the advice.

Sending strength.

I found out through my WH's email also. While I still had access to his email (before he deleted the account), I printed all of them. I don't know if I'll ever need them for evidence, but just to be safe I printed them. I haven't read them all because of the nastiness of the 'one' I did read. I just put them in a safe place where he will not ever find them and I probably won't ever need them but they are my insurance/proof of affair if I do! Ha!