SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I can't tell you how many times over the years here on SI that I've seen that when the WS says the ended things with the AP, they actually just took it way underground.

Just from what I've read, sorry, but your wife has not ended this A.

You need to go into surveillance mode, and you need to keep your cards close to your chest, do not tip your hand.

Personally, I put a GPS tracker in his car. He was ditching his car in random parking lots and getting picked up by the OW. I never would have caught him if it weren't for that GPS tracker.

We men tend to go into a damage control mode once we find out our spouses have cheated.

Like you tell her she has to end it, you get both your asses to MC, you go to IC, you demand she breaks contact, changes work…

All this is done as if to end the affair and set things on course for recovery.

What’s wrong with this scenario is that it’s not YOU that had the affair. It’s not YOU that needs to change things so the affair isn’t ongoing. It’s like trying to herd a cat along a predetermined path.

What’s missing is what your wife wants.

How about what you want? Isn’t that missing?

Well… no… not really… Or more correctly we can quickly find out what you want.

Wanting your wife not to have an affair is like wanting to win the lottery. You can want all you can but you can’t really control it.

Wanting to stay married is actually relatively easy to get. If what you want is to remain married then simply don’t interfere in your WW affair. Fact is that nearly all infidelity relationships fizzle out over time. Few last more than 6 months and very few lead to a lasting, permanent long-term relationship. If your biggest concern is losing your wife – If that’s the worst possible outcome of this situation – then don’t rock the boat.

Allow her to have her Nathan. Don’t ask, don’t tell. Suggest she uses protection. Ask that she showers before getting into bed with you. Don’t wonder what she’s thinking of when she’s all dreamy.

Does that sound appealing?

If not then really reconsider what’s the absolute worst outcome of this situation.

I put it to you that SHARING your wife is immensely worse. I put it to you that remaining in infidelity is the absolute worst outcome EVER in your situation.

Agree?

Well… Then we know what YOU want. You want OUT OF INFIDELITY.

At present it’s like you have grabbed your WW hand and are trying to pull her out of a burning house. Only she doesn’t see it as a burning house. She simply wants to enjoy the flames, or stay close to the warmth. Her reluctance is slowing you down and might lead to both of you getting caught in the flames. Granted you could lift her up and carry her out (that’s what you are sort of trying right now) but once out chances are she wants back in to enjoy the flames.

This is seen in her reluctance to commit to the marriage. It took a specialist to make her think she wants to stay married. Her tears? I’m guessing they are for having to sacrifice her “true love”. For letting go of her fantasy.

I am going to suggest you take a radically different approach:

Tell her she’s free to see her other man.

She can be with him, date him, and tell everyone how great he is…

But not as your wife.

She can have her doubts over whether she wants to remain married to you. She’s free to end the marriage if she so chooses. That’s something you both can do and don’t need to cheat to reach that conclusion. She’s free to file if that’s what she wants.

BUT she can’t see OM, pine for OM or want to be with OM as your wife.

Then tell her that until and unless she clearly and vocally commits to the marriage and to ending the affair then you are simply assuming the marriage is over. That she has committed to the infidelity and that you are resigned to having lost her.

Don’t enter into arguments about divorce. Your mantra should be on these lines:

“I am too attached to this marriage to be sensible and logical about divorce. I will have an attorney that should ensure we both get fair treatment. There are procedures and laws in place that should ensure we can do this fairly. Other than that there is no purpose for us to discuss the details now.”

If she starts complaining about you and why she had to have the affair:

“I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage then that’s something we could address. Since you are committed to infidelity and we are therefore divorcing then there is really no need for us to resolve this issue”.

Then you simply move on. You gather what info you can for divorce, start planning your future and start detaching.

No need to argue, be grumpy or whatever. You are moving out of infidelity.

Chances are she will jump on with you. Chances are that when she sees you are serious and have realized you aren’t willing to be her second option then the romance of the affair will crumble.

Right now she thinks she has to “sacrifice” her brave white knight because she’s enslaved by the old king. Once the old king tells her she’s totally free to go BUT she has to leave the palace then the white knight isn’t so appealing. Especially when he doesn’t come riding over to rescue her.

One more thing: You need to be vocal about the affair. IF she doesn’t clearly agree to remain married and working on reconciliation on her own free will then you need to let people know why you are divorcing. You need to discover if the OM is married and tell his wife. You should see their business relationship – manager, supervisor, same dept? And seriously consider contacting HR. You need to contact that “friend” that raved over Nathan and tell her her friendship isn’t welcome to you and your kids. Most of all you need to let Nathan know he can have her because this isn’t kindergarten and you refuse to share.

Sounds drastic but I can more or less give you a 90% guarantee how this will go:

She will be silent, she will make all sorts of threats and list all your faults, she will brood…

Once Prince Charming starts working on saving HIS family, once the bosses start taking them aside and asking them questions, once she thinks everyone at the office is looking funny at her… Once she realizes that it was all fantasy and that reality is a bitch…

She will reconnect to the marriage.

Forgot to add:

IF she tells you she wants to be married then it’s HER ROLE to convince you.

She needs to convince you it’s over.

She needs to convince you there is no contact.

She needs to convince you that her boss knows so that their interaction can be limited.

She needs to convince you that she’s committed.

She needs to…

Get it? The role of enforcing that the affair is over is reversed. As long as you aren’t convinced you are willing to walk. In fact – you DO walk constantly out of infidelity. It becomes an issue of if she can convince you she’s being honest and is allowed to walk with you.

She’s crying because she can’t see her lover? Yes she can – it’s HER CHOICE to be your wife. If she prefers Mr. Valentino then go ahead. But it’s HER CHOICE. Just like it’s YOUR choice to move on out of infidelity.

Very very sorry you are here, but feel I have to add my voice to the choir.

Our stories are similar - out of town co worker (boss in my case) with office communicator etc...

I trusted and loved her totally. She had a perfect image and reputation. I thought 'not possible, not her'

The one thing I hope you hear and accept - THEY LIE.

She IS talking to him - at every opportunity. If you allow her to deal with this 'her way', the affair will continue in some form, and your pain will become unbearable.

I tried to do it the way you are considering for 8 months or so - it was a nightmare. God if only I could go back... You are at the point I wish I would have done things soooo differently - don't make my mistakes.

- You can't nice her back

- you need to expose this affair completely

- you need to accept that she is NOT your friend/confidant now and that she IS manipulating you and will continue to do so as long as you allow it.

Don't be afraid of 'pushing her away' - she already left your marriage. You need to take charge in the ways others have advised because that is the ONLY healthy way to go forward.

You can and will be okay - with or without her. TAKE REAL ACTION - you will not regret it later like I regretted my inaction...

here is my opinion.

1) You hopped into MC way too soon. You were ready to work on the marriage before you even knew the extent of the damage. MC is a waste of $$ and time if she's not remorseful. She seemed to be regretful that she got caught.

2) None of this is your fault and your wife can't be trusted. She cake ate and did so with two young kids, willing to damage your family for some bullshit fantasy. She deprived you and gave to him.

3) She can't break it off and is now trying to find ways to keep it going. I know you say you trust that she has broken it off. Don't !!!

What would I do

1) Fire the MC and tell her no MC until you determine whether this marriage is worth saving and right now you are leaning against it because of the level of betrayal. Again MC is a waste of time in your case and your MC sucks BTW.

2) Tell her she needs to quit the job. If you can't afford it, she no longer goes overseas, PERIOD, and tell her HR and keep them separated.

3) Your wife will break in half if she is served papers. So serve her divorce papers and break her down. This will knock her off the fence and then you'll see the real remorse if you ever would.

4) Good call on Cordell and Cordell. Excellent law firm. Have them draw up the papers. Once she is served, it will be up to you to determine if you want to go through it or not. I would say stretch it out for a while and make her have consequences.

5) Eblaster or webwatcher on her computer. Look out for the legalities of this. Cordell and Cordell should be able to tell you but you need a way to monitor her. VARS too.

6) Don't believe a word she says. She lied to you, cheated in a vicious way. this woman is an adversary right now, the enemy. Glad you decided to sleep in different rooms. keep that going.

Until she is on her hands and knees and weeping, you have nothing to fight for in this marriage.

Listen to Happyman and Nononsense. Nononsense handled his situation decisively.

Exposure is very vital when you want to save the marriage.

and DO NOT tell her you are exposing.

do not be surprised if she says "I was going to reconcile with you until you exposed" That is Bull Sh!t (cheater speak).

EXPOSE

PS, Your MC Su@ks

Western is right

[This message edited by convert at 12:44 PM, July 16th (Thursday)]

I found the OM's wife on Facebook. Should I tell her? How should I?

You can use the facebook account to send an email to her directly. The way you do this is when you pull up her account, look at the URL. It will be something like

https://www.facebook.com/ima.cheatedon.59

You can then send an email to...

ima.cheatedon.59@facebook.com

And it will be routed through facebook directly to the email she used to establish her account. Better than just posting it to Facebook as a message.

I am so fucking glad I came here. You all are awesome and putting this in perspective.

i am sure everyone accepts your thanks, but none of it means anything until YOU start implementing it starting RIGHT NOW.

When she gets home tonight you sit her down and tell her the YOUR conditions to remain in this marriage, not hers. She gets no say. She either accepts it or leaves it. NON NEGOTIABLE.

Send Om wife a FB message and DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE.

She is still in this affair big time which is why she wants to do things her way. You have not accomplished anything yet but make her more sneaky.

Until she BELIEVES there is no more tolerance she will continue to lie.

You MUST tell her she is going to tak a polygraph sometime in the future whether or not you have any intention of doing it. That will convince her she is not going underground without getting caught anyway.

Everyone has given you basically the same advice in different words. none of us wants your thanks as much as we want you out of this mess intact. That responsibility is now up to you and you alone.

You need to act and get it out of your head to sit and wait and not make any decisions. Decisions are exactly what you need and the decision need to be uncomromising and no backsliding.

I agree with Confused on the VAR, the eblaster etc.. and spyware for the phone.

I would also demand to see the emails and call her bluff on the fact that she deleted the account.

I would also demand a polygraph.

Tell the OMW Blow him up

Think about this. How do you deal with an addict? Do you ask them to stop their addiction? Beg them? Convince them it is a bad idea? No that never works. They have to hit rock bottom and then decide to get better, or not.

Emotions are porn to women, and she has a major addiction to those feelings for the OM. Not feelings for you, you do not matter at this point to her. Sorry to say that, but you mattered to her this would not have happened. And she would not be crying over him.

So let her hit rock bottom. Shock and Awe. Do what Western and the other posters are saying. File.

You have to be willing to lose her and the marriage. If you don't then it's a future of more D-Days or an open marriage.

I plan to. I want to get some proof before I tell the OBS.

Legally, I don't think I can do anything to her computer for work. I'll see what I can do about the macbook.

She only has one phone, it's from work. I am sure I cannot do anything with that.

I have control of the bank accounts. I would know if she had a burner phone. That much I know is a fact.

This has helped me already. I see the errors of my ways so far. She is going in to see an IC tomorrow. I don't know about getting rid of the MC, yet. I sure as shit am going to bring the hammer down on both her and my wife.

I agree with informing the man's wife. ASAP - it is insurance for you, and will help pop your wife's bubble. I don't really think you need proof unless it is quickly and readily available.

I disagree that you need to read the emails necessarily. You may want the option, but I'd hold back on that. See if your wife defogs. While they think they are "in love", usually after NC and some long nights witnessing the pain they have caused their loved ones, waywards usually see things very, very differently. Those emails are going to feel like battery acid being poured on your heart. You will never be able to unsee them, and the truth of the matter is, they are meaningless. Most of the stuff in them is BS.

I also don't agree with getting rid of the MC. Folks here are quick to judge on counselors if they appear to be 'siding' with the WS. Give it a little time.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 1:11 PM, July 16th (Thursday)]

your MC may not have experience in infidelity.

Also some MC I have seen on these boards favor one gender over another or a WS. I have seen some very hostile towards BS.

It's a bad field to play gender favoritism or take sides against the betrayed but it happens. Fire this MC

I would bring the hammer on both of them. When is your next appointment ?

Inform the OBS even without the evidence. You have seen it firsthand and maybe she will get into PI mode and find the evidence and share it with you.

What did Cordell and Cordell say ? You making an appointment ?

[This message edited by Western at 1:13 PM, July 16th (Thursday)]

Why are you bringing the hammer down on the MC?? Just fire their stupid ass.

The HAMMER has to come down on your wife and why are you paying for her to go to IC??? When she comes home and tells you her IC said you have to be patient and let her disconnect at her own pace, are you going to accept that shit.

Unless you insist on her signing a document allowing her IC to tell you everything, you have no idea whatsoever she is telling IC and only know what a proven liar is telling you that the IC said.

You are backsliding from previous posts and you are making some big time mistakes here even now.

Your next post to us should not be talking about MC or IC. It should be telling what time tomorrow your appointment at the attorney's office is. That will be more productive for you than the charade you are going through with her now.

[This message edited by nononsense at 1:20 PM, July 16th (Thursday)]

I agree with Nononsense. IC for yourself to recover ? yes.

However, you rushed into MC and got a bad one as well. Fire the MC.

Lawyer up NOW !!

I've been following this, and I'm going to throw my voice in with the chorus of others.

It's way to early for you two to be seeing a MC.

First, your WW needs intensive IC first to deal with herself. To get to the bottom of her problems that led her to do this to you. You need IC first to help you process this shit. To help you heal you. Right now MC is a waste of your time and money.

Second, that MC is crap and needs to go. A bad MC can do more damage than none at all. When the time does come that you're ready to try and fix your marriage, you need to interview the potential MC carefully. What are their views on infidelity? (and if they say the blame for the A falls 50/50, or that its perfectly OK for your WW to keep working with the OM, run like hell.) What experience do they have trying to fix a marriage destroyed by infidelity.

On informing the OBS, you need to do it. With whatever proof you have, or don't have. Firstly, the OBS deserves to know what her WH is doing. She needs to be able to make an informed choice about her future, just as you do. Second, once the affair is exposed on both sides, it makes it that much harder to take it underground. You now have another set of eyes watching from the other side. And besides, usually the OM is so busy trying to save his ass he doesn't have time to worry about another piece of ass. Once your WW sees just how fast he dumps her, it'll help knock her back to reality.

I have control of the bank accounts.

That's good. But take it one step further. Take half the money and open a savings (not checking) account at a completely different bank under your name alone. Remove your WW as an authorized user on any credit cards you have in your name. Protect yourself.

ETA:

Lawyer up NOW !!

Yes. This. Consulting a lawyer doesn't commit you to anything. Most lawyers offer a free half hour initial consultation. It will help you see what might happen in the event you do end up filing. I don't know where you live, size-wise, but I usually recommend finding out who the top family law lawyers are in your area and taking advantage of the initial free consultation, if they offer that. For the most part any lawyer you consult is one your WW cannot use against you.

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 1:30 PM, July 16th (Thursday)]

I have found out more now. Because of spying. I see the chat history of her and one of her friends. She spells it all out. They didn't have sex overseas, they had it right here in my hometown. He came over here.

They been seeing each other for around a year but she had feelings for him before my second daughter was even born.

I can't do this. I thought it was my anger that brought her to this with the traveling, but she barely traveled during that time.

This is about far more than me and my relationship to her. I also remembered a time when she got very close to another man online. I stopped it then. I see a pattern now.

Last night she cried and said that she was so messed up inside. That she was trying to get over the other man. How she feels as the betrayer. I was happy to see her finally cry but I grew more sad. I don't know if she will find her way back to me.

I have been in your same place for 1.5 years.

WW is still mooning over AP.

I have small kids too.

its sickening and many people like our wives do not understand that getting into an affair is like falling into a tar pit.

She might also benefit from private therapy as might you in time.

Your emotions are going to get wild, so hang on dude.

Because of spying. I see the chat history of her and one of her friends. She spells it all out. They didn't have sex overseas, they had it right here in my hometown. He came over here.

And her friend has probably been encouraging her all along the way and laughing it up at how you were clueless. ordinarily this friend would have to go but in this case your wife has to go so it does not matter.

I also remembered a time when she got very close to another man online. I stopped it then

You really did not stop anything. She just found another man.

I can't do this.

Then don't. Stop paying for useless therapy. You will be old before you ever trust her again and she has been checked out for quite a while.

Go read my post above. It places the power of recovery in YOUR hands.