SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Psychmom,

I'm very happy for your R and the others on here! I didn't get a chance to offer R since my WH is unrepentant but I thought I could add something here. I really think what you and your hubby have is what is extra special. I get so confused looking back at the time leading up to my D-Day. I'm painfully aware that many out there assume a WH leaves because of lack of sex. In my case that couldn't have been it since we didn't lack in that department. I thought I was passionate but it was only sex. What was lacking was the "afterglow" part you describe. Maybe it's because my spirit inside sensed he was unsafe prior to my finding out about A, but looking back, I realize I would immediately jump up and want to go shower afterwards (while he was in A yet I didn't know yet!) So even though I was the wife of his youth, I feel I was just the sex during that time and OW HS sweetheart was the emotional connection? It makes me feel so yucky to think he could look at me as the object instead of the OW. It haunts me, yet there was no way i could have known what was going on. I believe I've been trained from my past to think the sex part was more important and I can clearly see from your post that the intimacy is the most important. Im glad your husband sees that and I am learning so that i may grow through what im going through despite no R.

I am new here and am still trying to figure this stuff out at 6 weeks. The HB helps me keep my emotional walls up. I let them down just last night for the first time and I was a mess. How do you navigate through this? Get back on the horse immediately or slow way down?

Sex was not just sex with the OW, he had intimacy (KISA situation)...so getting over the emotional part is hard.

I wish I had some wonderful words of wisdom, sleeplessincali. What I would offer is to do what feels best TO YOU. There are so many variables in each of our stories and experiences, that what "works" for one person or couple may not be best for someone else.

At 6 weeks since DDay, you are still at a VERY fragile and delicate state. A particularly painful and traumatic period for many of us, and I sincerely hope you're getting some support to help you through this. Have you begun reading in The Healing Library (found above in the yellow box - lots of good resources to get you started). You might want to post in the Just Found Out area of this web site. That is where many of the "survivors" can reach out to offer you some support and advice if you're looking for it.

But what you describe, being "a mess" is pretty common at the point you're at, unfortunately. But it WILL get easier, with time and lots of processing the trauma that you've recently experienced.

Psycmom- thank you. I have been reading 24/7 everything I can get my hands on.I don't feel like I belong in JFO as most of the shock is gone and I have a fully repentent FWH and good support system and spiritual ground. I knew right away I wanted R and FWH did not stay in the fog for a lengthy period (12 hours of shock and then a total break down into repentence,guilt, shame ect. NC within 24 hours)

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread, but could identify with the conversation as my breakdown was fresh and a bit confusing since it was not the first time that we had been intimate and had been doing the HB thing for a couple of weeks. FWH mentioned that he would rather take intimate emotional and crying sex over HB any day.....but it was very emotional and painful. We talked about it this morning and will play it by ear.

Hot sex vs emotional intimacy?

versus?

What's hotter than emotional sex?! I can't remember purely physical encounters being any where near as HOT as being in love at the same time and really feeling that soulful/existential connection! And that connection isn't something that happens over night. It's not the same as infatuation or lust. It's that wedding night sex; let's make a baby sex; there's no one else in the world I want more than you sex... the power's off, let's have sex, sex.

And picture that word: "HOT" as flames burning up this page.

I was hit by a fucking fright train of hysterical bonding. For a while there I felt like a teenager; just the thought of having sex... well... you know.

There are have been nights where one or both of us is struggling for various reasons. Sometimes we can just listen to one another, other times not so much. On those nights, when it seems that a little "sexual healing" is in order, something has to happen first. My wife calls it "transitioning." She can't just go from a hard talk to having sex. For her, it's emotional, not just physical (though not always )

I've come up with a few highly effective ways in which to help her transition. And she's done the same. She can "transition" me pretty effectively.

Hot Sex + Emotional Intimacy = Another day of successful reconciliation, especially when she or I thanks the other for "rocking my world last night."

Hot sex and emotional intimacy are why I we started dating in the first place. Hot sex and emotional intimacy are why we found such joy in our relationship. The loss of emotionally hot sex is one of the reason our marriage began to fall apart. Hot sexy emotions are one of the reasons I'm still married today and... now that I think about it, we'll have to get the kid to bed early tonight!

Thanks the for the post, psychmom!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 6:58 PM, December 6th (Sunday)]

Psychmom, thank you for starting this thread. I,too, could have written much of what you said in your posts. The sex is so much more about intimacy and we both see it as far beyond physical bonding. WH claims A sex was awful but purely physical - very different from what we are experiencing as we try to R. I remember saying to WH on DDay (as he begged for my mercy and for me to stay) that I was not sure we could ever make love again - but it was in short order that the HB began and it kind of scared me. I was relieved to find SI and to know that it had a name (HB) and was a frequent occurrence in R relationships! Our marriage prior to A had been so lacking in communication and intimacy for years - I know I was very unhappy for a long time and just thought it was the way things went when you were married for a long time, raising 5 kids and having demanding jobs. i so prefer the "new normal" but so wish we could have gotten to this place in a different way! I still worry that the toll on me has been too great to completely recover. I so love my fWH and our current Marriage, but I still have so much pain

Stilllovesadly, I, too, learned of HB from this site, and it was well after we were in the midst of it. Had no idea that this could be a reaction to hearing of a spouses' affair--didn't know if it was a normal response or not, only that it seemed to work for me and for us.

Our sex life had settled into a routine rut. But as was our pattern in most issues related to our marriage, we didn't address it directly. But when the wake up call came, with the realization that we were moments away from throwing away 20 years of marriage, a family life with 2 lovely daughters on the verge of adulthood, it was like the past and future flashed before our eyes. For me, time stood still as my mind raced from the past to the present to the future, trying to soak it all in. That was the moment of the beginning of my crazy which lasted for the next 3-4 months.

Fortunately BOTH of us had a similar epiphany. While mine focused on the family I felt I was losing, his focused on the realization that I DID love him. And so began our HB. What has emerged from that is far more authentic and real than the fantasy sex associated with affairs and ONS. And for most healthy people, it is much preferred, much more satisfying, much more likely to endure. And it is now the foundation of our new marriage.

Thing is, I'm still an almost 56 year old woman. Fit and healthy, but there are biological changes not to be denied. But we are now able to talk about these things in a way that seemed nearly impossible before. Do I worry still at times? Sure. But I don't dwell on it. And I don't do anything I don't want to do just to please him. That would be dishonest and not likely to endure. So it's forced communication and compromise, which for us has been a very good change. For anyone struggling with the sexual aspects of your partners' affair(s), I share your pain and sadness. But maybe my experience offers a bit of hope that the mind can take us in good places as readily as it can take us to the dark side.

WH and I had a short stint with HB. In all honesty, it did far more damage than good. While my WH claims that it was meaningful to him, it left me feeling used. I didn't feel as though *I* mattered. I still don't actually. Some of it is the fact that WH cheated on me throughout our marriage. Some of it is because I can't get it out of my head that my WH told me immediately after D-day that the sex he had with my sister is the best sex he has ever had. Some of it is because he has called me by other women's names while we were having sex. Part of it is because I spent years of my childhood being violently raped so I already came into my marriage with a high need of feeling like I mattered in order for me to be able to enjoy sex.

As a result of all of that, I have really struggled with the sexual issue. It is something I am working on in IC, but I am starting to lose hope about it. My IC wants me to take it in baby steps so that all I focus on right now is allowing him to snuggle with me again without sex being on the menu. I'm even struggling with that much.

My H and I HB for the first 10 month's or so but has now slowed.

We cuddle every night but sometimes I get upset if we have not had sex in a few days and all the mind movies start again.

H is understanding but I still feel the need for more intimacy but as H says he is not a machine and I get that we both have stressful jobs and work long hours.

Need advise on how to over coming feeling needy all the time.

Psychmom

Like your husband I have always looked at lovemaking as a way of expressing emotional intimacy with my wife. I don't think my wife ever fully understood that was how I looked at it. For many of us guys we are emotionally closed off and for many of us making love is one of the few ways we could show and receive real love and affection.

I had built such a shell around myself growing up that I couldn't really accept shows of affection in the way they were intended. It was always "I don't deserve affection, they are just doing it because they feel like they need to make me feel better". I never looked at it like she did it because she loved me.

Because of this our lovemaking for me was the one way I could show and really feel love and affection, it was really important to me.

I never liked "quickies", to me they were just used for physical release and I never felt comfortable using her that way.

Anyway at several times in our marriage I told her "I would rather take lovemaking out of our marriage if I have to wonder on a regular basis if we would get to make love tonight". I couldn't explain the "why" I needed this. Because of this I became more and more distant to her emotionally over the years, I was closing my self-created emotional shell completely.

This has still been a problem for me in our reconciliation and our reconciliation is going wonderfully.

Reading your post has made me realize I need to talk to her about this. It is amazing how someone else's post on this site can open your eyes to what is really going on inside us.

We are both much more affectionate than we ever were before. When we kiss each other goodbye or hello or for any reason our kisses are longer, deeper and full of "I love you" rather than "love you".

Thank you so much for your post, I think it has helped me.

Good Luck, Be Strong, we really do care about you.

(((Furious1)))

Thanks Sisoon. I think I might have finally gotten over the hump, lol! Okay that was tacky. Anyway, the baby steps worked.

I so agree that the very hottest sex involves deep emotional intimacy. It's a false dichotomy. I have read that you can have super hot sex in a friends with benefits situation because lack of emotional involvement allows you to be more uninhibited and less concerned about caring and taking care of the other and you are just in it to please yourself, so you act selfishly and therefore more real.

To me that short changes the possibilities that a deeply intimate couple can achieve when they throw out the idea that you are so truly safe a deeply intimate partner that you feel safe enough to experiment as wildly as you want. You feel valued enough to be given space to express your deepest desires, even those darker, raunchier ones.

The Passionate Marriage book encourages couples to experiment with role play and maintaining eye contact throughout sex, which enhances intimacy and makes it hotter. Many couples just close their eyes and tune into their own physical sensations and end up just in their own heads, many times fantasizing or just ignoring their partner. That is fine, but we should all learn to embrace a wider range of modalities so sex in your long term relationship does not get too boring and unconnected.

My fWS and I have been incorporating some of these principles. We're on our second year post DD, and the sex is better than ever. We keep tweaking things to get the most out of it and gently expanding our horizons.

[This message edited by Aumanny99 at 5:55 PM, December 10th (Thursday)]

Maybe someone can weigh in for me. I posted earlier in this thread about my emotional breakdown, and am still so very conflicted. I know these things take time. Not sure if I should make my own thread, but it fits in here.

I am noticing that I am angry (mask for fearing volnerabolity) because I feel desperate for sex, but I am hesitant to feel any volnerarability during the act nor do I want to ask for it, but I have asked repeatedly and get mixed responses and results. I would almost rather take it off the table or just have sex for the sex and not emotions right now. WH is wanting to take it way slower with less frequency. He wants it for the emotions, and because we argue so much, it is hard for him to get into the mood. He would rather cuddle. I feel like he should want to have sex like rabbits but there is no hysterical bonding on his part. I understand his POV, we are not in sync and that is frustrating me. I'd rather just close my self off because then I would not feel like psyco crazy woman. I'm angry at my self for wanting sex with someone who betrayed me and I'm mad at him for not wanting it as much and I'm mad at him for making me feel like an entirely different person. It's like all of my supressed worst qualities are now at the forefront of my personality. I'm not sure what I'm asking here...

Last night to stop the movies, I had to make a salad in my head. Thank you to whoever posted that suggestion about controlling your thoughts.

@sleeplessincali:

I am in the exact same boat. My fWS never wanted as much as I did. I would masturbate to keep myself from getting too frustrated between times that she was in the mood. That was fine with me until I found out about the affair. What really angers me is that she says part of her motivation for the affair was the she was "horny". Great, right? Why did she not express that extra horniness with me?? Her response is that in our arguments I was disrespectful and dismissive. So those hurts made her feel that I thought she was less than me. (Untrue but I could see why she thought that). AP made her feel like an equal, so the affair started out of that friendship.

So fast forward to now 13 months after DD and now she's back to only wanting it about once a week and reports that her sexual appetite is waning. So I get to be with her when she's not extra horny and not as much as I want. I end up having to be the initiator and the seducer. My pride and self confidence with her have been in the toilet after knowing about her affair (a LTA of nearly 3 years). Why was I not enough? She says I had also put on too much weight and AP was running every day at 5 a.m. to get in shape for her. Man I get angry thinking about all this again.

So, how do I keep motivated to seducing and coming on to a wife who clearly is not that into me, but was so into her AP she broke her vows to be with him. She assures me now sex with me is better than ever and even better than it was with him. But I struggle to believe that when she never initiates and doesn't act horny at all with me. Shouldn't a truly remorseful wayward do their best to be super lusty and romantic with their betrayed just to prove that they truly want to repair the damage they've done.

By the way I've lost 20 pounds and have addressed most of the emotional hurts both in and out of therapy with her. I'm calmer in our arguments and sensitive to her in other ways. This has resulted in a better relationship over all, but the lack of enthusiasm for sex still fills me with doubt about how into me she truly is.