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Yes. That's what I've been doing all along. I keep trying to grasp any bit of control because...we had none. Honestly? We never really do. So now I'm focusing on the only thing I can control. Me and my health. Easy? Heck no. No. Not when I've been fighting and grasping for any bit of control I could get. But in a way, it is a bit of a relief. I now look to see what he does as I let go of the outcome bit by bit. I most definitely am slow to transition to this. Hugs, psychmom.

I don't think there is an easy or straight forward path to understanding what goes on in the mind of a person who can betray someone they claim to love. We all have sadness, disappointments and FOO issues, but that doesn't excuse bad behaviour. I think it amounts to selfishness myself.

The real focus should be on your healing not on the actions of a cheating spouse. What do YOU want in a marriage? What do YOU need going forward? What do YOU need to do protect yourself and heal from this?

I wanted to understand why my spouse betrayed me, but no matter how much I tried to understand it, the only answer came down to selfishness. Cheating is a choice, not a mistake. What is a mistake is to think that it's an "accident" or "crisis." No, it's a matter of one person unilaterally making a decision on the well-being of the most intimate relationship in their life. Who does that? Selfish people.

Find the answer to your own healing and let your cheater spouse figure out why they did what they did. When they have that answer they can let you know, and you can decide if you want to buy it or not.

Don't you have to want the "thing" before you start the rationalization process? A person doesn't just start rationalizing something out of thin air. Doesn't there have to be some sort of dissatisfaction, unmet need (ugh), or something lacking for a person to start down the rationalization trail? Isn't that what you were doing when you (psychmom) rationalized that if you fixed your WH your problems would be solved? Is that just a lack of understanding of the depth of the trauma that happened to you? We have all bitten off more than we could chew more than once in our lives. Sometimes that's just a matter of perspective. I see this in my children very often. I can offer insight into something because I've lived through it. They sometimes cannot see my point until they've made the mistake so to speak. I think that's why a drunken ONS may be easier to forgive (understand?) versus a longer term A. If a wayward continues cheating\betraying there has to be something else happening with them or the relationship, or maybe both. The rationalization to keep doing something that you know is wrong and harmful is a beast of another nature.

Is willful destruction of a marriage truly just a character thing? Are cheaters simply selfish people that think the rules don't apply to them coupled with a lack of ethics to adhere to their commitments? Can that behavior be modified or even really understood? That's the thing that nags at my mind.

Marriages go through ups and downs. I was missing things from my marriage, but I didn't cheat. I do think it comes down to character. Integrity is a part of that character. If a person is unhappy or missing something in a marriage, they need to speak up and share that. We aren't mind-readers. And when spouses lie to us and deny they are unhappy but are having an affair? That's manipulation - straight up. To say it's anything else is to minimize and complicate what is really straight up fraud.

Marriage isn't about deception. It is about having difficult conversations and informing your spouse about your needs and frustrations.

If you want to look at porn, have hookers, sleep around with others that's ok but inform me, your spouse, and let me have a say if that is ok WITH ME IN THIS RELATIONSHIP. I signed up for fidelity, loyalty, honesty and good and bad, not deception, manipulation and half-truths.

feeling of control over the situation.

Really? And just whom have you ever truly controlled in this life time?

Control is an illusion. You know this.

Mr. Psych might one day find the attention of some random woman irresistible, dye his hair again, and crack open a few bottles of scotch. And why not? He's been down that road before. But you know, he also knows what's down that road, and it seems rather obvious he taking the higher road today.

Fear is the basis for all negative emotions, right? It's the primary emotions upon with all negative emotions spring. Personally, I'd be afraid to commit to Mr. Psych. I still a bit hesitant to commit to Mrs Hinged.

For us, those like us, it's the fear of what we don't understand. I hate not understanding something. It really pisses me off!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:37 PM, January 1st (Friday)]

Ah yes..and the idea that we likely never will fully understand? That is just petrifying! How can we stop it if we don't know? How can we keep ourselves from being hurt? We can't. But it is as I told you. Now that we have been through this? We know. We know their MO. Their pattern. We know when they change and the subtle things that before, we made excuses for.

But the alternative is scary as hell. It means the risk always is there, could occur again at almost anytime. It removes any feeling of control over the situation. Am I struggling for an answer that doesnt exist to protect myself from this truth? Im starting to believe this may e the direction to pursue.

And that is real where we need to be; understanding that all we REALLY have control over is ourselves. All the attempts to find the "answers" don't shore us up against the potential risk in the future.

What you end up with, I believe at some point is the total appreciation for the fact that you will be alright, no matter what the outcome, You learn just how strong you are and what you are capable of enduring and how well you are able to it.

But that is not it. If your husband is doing the work to learn how he thinks, what is unhealthy in him that allowed him to become unhappy enough to look for a quick fix, the risk of taking that self destructive path in the future will lessen, I believe. So the quest really may be for HIM to understand his mind during the affair, AND prior so that he can gain insight into himself and what he was not able to work through in a health way. These skills need to be build up and practiced consistently. I believe that once some of that can be seen on a regular basis, the risk will decrease in a way that may be manageable.

This is my hope....