SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Mad hatter here.

I cheated first. A month after confessing, I found him IMing OW. I confronted him that night. He sent fake email to her saying he couldn't be in contact with her. I suspected this but wasn't sure. A few days later he went out of town for work to where she lived and had RA. He broke it off with her a week later. Before he had PA with her but was on trip, I had this really terrible feeling. I called him although he had told me only to call if it had to do with the kids. I am still surprised he didn't hang up on me. I told him that I knew what I did was terrible, I was sorry I did it (he had heard it all before) and that I never wanted him to be with someone else. I told him that for two reasons: bc selfishly I did not want to be a BS and the other part was me not wanting HIM to become a WH. He told me, "You ruined EVERYTHING." (I think he had a fantast if having RA to feel better and me never finding out). And the conversation was over.

Prior to this, he had talked about a RA. For some strange reason, I did not shut that talk down then. Maybe I was too desperate. It was the worst month of my life so my perspective was terrible.

MD, I would strongly consider talking to him about the texting, possible RA stuff and telling how you feel. Even if he chooses to do it, think about if you will regret saying it is ok for him to even the score. He may even use that against you in the future if he were to go through with it and become a WH saying you gave him a free pass. Also, it may start as an RA but it could become a longer term A. Being a MH adds a whole other level of hell to this. I strongly recommend you do everything in your power to figure out how you really feel about a potential RA and if it doesn't agree with what you have already said, tell him ASAP. Do you want more guilt on your conscience that you gave him a pass?

Now my H says the whole thing made him feel dirty. He is ashamed of what we both did. I feel it is very unlikely my H would have ever cheated had I not had A first. However, he is responsible for what he chose to do when he clearly knew how I felt. He has tried to push it on me, but just like I can't and don't blame our shitty marital environment for the two years prior to my A for my A, he can't blame the marital environment when he made his choice either.

Be strong and keep working hard.

Thank you again unhinged. We actually did have a good talk today. He let me know that he had started drifting down that path of an affair, but somehow he had a moment of clarity. That it wouldn't changed the past, that it would just end up hurting more people. So he had dinner plans with her tonight and he cancelled them. I told him out of openness that the thought of him with another woman destroys me, I can barely function just thinking about it. I also told him that I understand his desire to want to eve the score, to know the unknown. And I can't fault him for those feelings. I made a home for those feelings when I brought deception and betrayal into our marriage. I told him I can't give him permission to pursue those things, but I will be here waiting for our chance to R.

your last sentence concerns me. BTW BH here.

RA's are no good. Your H is dangerously close to cheating on you. Your A was dead wrong but what he is doing is potentially sealing the marriage's fate. I am concerned because your last statement leaves the door open to his having an RA, the fact that you'll be there waiting despite not giving him permission. Yes, you feel guilty. And should. And you are accepting responsibility. Kudos to you. But do not leave the door cracked for him and his brokenness to inflict more pain. he should know that things are over if he cheats. Would it be a bluff ? Maybe but what else do you have ?? Then you can get back to fixing the marriage after you stop the threat

Thank you sad lady. I explained that to BH as well. The dirtiness and emptiness I now feel after my A has come to light. I told him I do not want him to feel that way. He is a better person and shouldn't tarnish himself just because I did. He seems to understand. I hope.

It is amazing what the human mind will do to block out those feelings during the A. the process of telling all to BH was like a curtain came up and the wizard was revealed in all his dirty nastiness. hate that I could be that weak. Never want to feel that way again. BH may never trust me again, may never forgive me, may file for D and be done with me. But I will never allow myself back to a place where I feel like an A is ok or that flirting is not harmless. Seeing BH flirt with OBS through text messages I just can't believe that I thought that was ok to talk to another man like that and that he wouldn't want more.

Moondancer I have posted to you before and am going to probably repeat a lot of what I have previously said..

Stop sleeping with him. I am the worst person to follow this advice which is why I am begging you to follow it. I am weeks away from giving birth to a child I conceived because I love ex and was desperate to show him I loved him. As a result I got pregnant...

Stop being there emotionally, again not great at following this myself. If he wants a divorce he needs to file, if he is not filing, is using you for emotional support and is still treating you in part like a companion then he needs to sit down and really decide if maybe divorce should be put on the back burner and you guys take it day by day.

Set some boundaries for yourself. Telling him you are not okay with him having sex with another woman and then telling him you will be there to R no matter what is not a boundary. BTW you have zeroed in on OBS as his possible RA partner and made a statement about how you could live with him having a RA but it being her made it worse. Not trying to downplay how you feel here but no. Anyone would be excruciating, you do not understand until you've been there. I thought one particular one would be worse then another but both ripped my heart out. Also he is already in A territory, the texting, flirting, dinner plans, lies abouy having sex with her all are A behavior, just because he hasn't put himself physically with her in a sexual manner doesn't mean he isn't skating the fine edge of his own EA.

The staying out all night. OMG ex used to do this all the time but would answer when I called. One day after my confession and his RA he did it and never answered. I called his best friend assuming he'd gone out with him and he freaked out too. Around noon he walked in and I was completely panicked. That was the day he officially broke up with me because he could not stop hurting me. I never really found out where he was other then with an old high school friend and that it was far so he'd crashed at the friend's house. He actually felt genuinely bad that he'd panicked me and realized how much I was breaking apart. That doesn't mean things got better, because they won't if you don't lay down some boundaries yourself.

I understand wanting it to work, it feels like the worse unfulfilled need you've ever had when going through this situation. Unfortunately its not always the best for us. To be perfectly honest I feel like you and your husband need to separate, not necessarily divorce but separate. Each of you need to heal solo or the destruction will continue. Please consider what I am saying.

I'm a BS but nothing you did gives him permission to emotionally torture like he is. That's what he's doing by staying out all night, ignoring your calls and making damn sure you know he's texting OBS while he's ignoring you.

This is extremely disturbing and isn't the behavior of someone who wants to reconcile. If a WS was doing this, SI would be all over him. This borders on abuse and is definitely a control tactic. He comes home, you cry and tell him how worried you are, his ego laps it up and he gives you sex as a reward and to keep you tied to him and off balance.

I'm sorry sweetie but your H sounds like a giant douche and you'd probably be better off kicking his ass to the curb. Please stop being codependent and start standing up for yourself. Nothing you did makes you deserve this kind of disrespect and torture.

((((((Moon dancer))))))

[This message edited by CheaterMagnet at 2:37 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

Moondancer,

He hasn't yet filed, but in every other way his words and his actions are saying he wants a divorce. It sounds like, to him, the marriage is over regardless of what any piece of paper says.

Regardless of whether he wants to reconcile or divorce, the best thing you can do for the both of you is to work on healing yourself. And, if you want to help his healing, then I would ask myself, What can I do to help him heal that is not dependent upon whether we stay married or not? Then do that.

Moondancer,

Truely sorry for your pain.

I am a madhatter too. I will say that my RA did work for me, but not without an emotional cost.

There would have been no possible way for me to have stayed with my WS otherwise. My pride and honor had been decimated... We succesfully rug swept our affairs for 27 years, until i triggered massively 2 years ago. i was done and told my wife just that. I was a mess as my early post here would reveal. a year of IC for each of us and 6 months of MC has helped significantly.

Would i do it again if i could turn back time? Honestly i would not. I will for ever feel like the BS, and i really regret the hurt i inflicted on my AP to this day. Plus with clarity i have now i can see There was no honor in my RA.

Wish you the best.

S.

Moondancer,

With what you have posted about your BH and yourself. Unless he can get some help to deal with his issues you guys are going to continue this sick cycle.

His perceptions about what a married man is allowed to do is pretty screwed up.

He has fought against IC and that is a huge flag in my eyes.

Sweetie,

You know true R means more than working on just your why's...it involves marriage foundation repair.

My FWH cheated...100% on him.

Our marriage issues..75%-100% on me.

We BOTH had to change, do the work, put egos aside.

Will he do this?? You can't rewrite your past marriage issues just because of the A, at some point the way HE is will need to be challenged and changed.

He can't continue to be the same way if your marriage is to be successful. You aren't the only one who has to do work here.

In this whole mess I'm most scared for you and your self esteem. You do know that you deserve better than to be a whipping girl? At some point it stops becoming punishment but abuse.

Thank you everyone. I have been doing lots of soul searching and you are all right. I do not deserve the mental abuse. I did do a horrible thing and I will forever be sorry for that.

My goals for next week are to worry about myself and the kids. I will not be focusing on what BH is doing or who he is talking to.

I did see a sparkle of promise in our latest talk. We spoke about our current marriage being over and it's only a piece of paper. But that if we decided we wanted to work on our relationship we would have to start a new marriage, either legally or in spirit with a renewal ceremony.

He has realized he has been rotten to me, and he apologized in his own way, admitting that he is not a man who easily apologizes, but he does feel bad for his behavior since Dday.

We has invited me over tomorrow to watch football and talk when the kids nap.

Baby steps. And no sex today. We talked about that as well briefly. He admits that it is slightly more than stress relief, but by no means promises it means things will work out. And I admitted that I do look into too much. another conversation for tomorrow.

What cheater magnet said.

If you're in recovery NC = NC for all involved.

I dont understand the evening the score thing. So you have to get even if your spouse has an affair? I've never felt this way...

Moondancer,

I am hoping that by you being firm, steadfast, but most of all doing what is healthy for YOU means that one day your B.S. will R with you.

I really think that if you set up healthy boundaries( no sex, won't accept any madhatting, keep on with the why's , don't allow him to play games and mentally abuse you ) you will get there faster.

I am glad you two talked of a possible future.

I really think if you 180 things will happen faster..and it will help you heal too. You have to protect yourself at some point and it won't hurt to show him what he is missing.

Im going to say...this situation is too new, too raw...to talk about R right now.

He is still to pissed and your still too guilty. Both of you are coming from a place of desperation & despair. You to save your marriage him to wrap his head around what has happened.

I think you need to stop. Take the kids and go to your parents. I say take the kids because you are the more stable... And he needs silence...to yell, scream, etc.

Dont stop working on you, or becoming safe. I dont think R requires both people all the time...sometimes your gonna carry more of the load...sometimes he is. Take the load...remove the kids and you from the house(since its his). 180...not show him what he is missing but to let him feel everything...without the excuse of you and the kids. Im a BS....so trust me when I tell you I am always conflicted about posting here. You, my love, have got to stop saving him from this pain. He HAS to feel it & make whatever decisions he makes. He couldn't stop your affair bevause your coping skills were crap....he has to learn to cope. He cant do that if your strapping on tights and cape shielding him from pain. He couldnt save you...and you cant save him. You are learning to save yourself...he has to do the same

Moondancer, I very rarely comment on this forum. Actually this is the second time, and both on your thread. I understand, that your husband might not want to listen to you, because of your problems. But, you tell him this is from me, a betrayed also. He has to stop feeling sorry for himself and concentrate on his kids. They need him. Out of pure hate for my fiancé leaving me for another man, I never dated again. You know what that got me? I am a 49 year old virgin. My hate put me here, no kids, no grand kids. Lonely and alone. The only thing that saved me was my sisters kids, that I have raised. They view me as a dad, and keep me going. He has kids of his own. He needs to pull his head out of his ass and raise them. There is no revenge to be had. If there is anything I can pass on to a younger hurt man, that is it. Moondancer, if he will listen, pass this on to him. I have lived a life hating, and wishing for revenge. It is stupidity. He may not listen to you, but please, try to get him to listen to me. There is no such thing as revenge! There is only punishing yourself. I send you all my hopes Moondancer.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 3:26 AM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

Oh, kiddo, if I were a religious man I'd pray for you. Hell! I just might anyway.

Please read what Unagie wrote to you several times. Read it carefully. In the last six months I've come to respect her opinion quite highly.

You are not going to get your BH back by allowing him to use you this way.

He just realizes that he doesn't have to respect you. You are teaching him how to treat you. YOU are doing that.

If you want better treatment from him, then start setting some boundaries. Stop being so afraid of losing this marriage that you are allowing him to emotionally abuse you. That is not love.

very good post Unhinged.

While I am completely opposed to revenge affairs, it is nice to see Moondancer committed to hier husband's healing from her two year affair. Communication has to start now though. You are right