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As a former, and years-long, sufferer of Ostrich Syndrome, I have to say that while I'd love to see definitive action, I completely understand toopol's response.

We all do the best we can. Some of us are afraid to face the pain except in the smallest of doses. That was me. Unfortunately —and this is the source of much of the zealous pressure being exerted on toopol to detach and ACT—this approach DOES leave you open to additional injury. In my case, it was terrible additional betrayal and injury.

Toopol, we just don't want to see you hurt more. There are ways you can help insulate yourself from it. That's all.

You'll act when the pain of the status quo exceeds the pain of facing the enormity of the problem.

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:29 AM, June 3rd (Friday)]

As a former, and years-long, suffered of Ostrich Syndrome, I have to say that while I'd love to see definitive action, I completely understand toopol's response.

We all do the best we can.

As the ostrich, this is of course a little weird to read, but I appreciate it nonetheless. It's true: *I am doing the best I can.* I'm journaling, I'm talking to my girlfriend, I'm reading this thread, I'm reading elsewhere, etc. etc.

It's difficult because I believe most of what she has told me about the affair, whereas most posters here (based on their own true experiences) are skeptical. I can't responsibly spare any time to discuss it right now (long story) but maybe next week I can explain why I don't often doubt the story she's told.

So is this like a home office? Meaning does your gf go monthly(bi-monthly) for trainings, meetings, peer evaluations

No. She has rarely traveled before, and then only for a couple days at a time. This was her first trip to this destination and the first trip that lasted anywhere near so long.

When you think about it, a woman in a multi year celibate relationship doesn't just jump into bed with the hotel service staff on a business trip for two whole weeks, all the while discussing marriage with her boyfriend.

Further detail: When we became a couple, she told me that she didn't want to have sex until marriage, but she was happy to do other stuff. So we pretty much had oral sex all the time. We sometimes talked about sex, and she described being confused about it, since she had grown up with the idea that she'd wait for marriage, but that didn't really make sense to her any more. I was sure never to pressure her about it. After two years, one night she told me "I think I want to have sex with you" and the next day we lost our virginities to each other. We've had a healthy, happy sex life since.

About the proposal discussion: she didn't know about my plans when the affair started. She thought I was still wrestling with the decision, as I had been for the previous year. (Of course, she did find out about it halfway through the affair, and she didn't end it, which is awful.)

Yet again I end up "defending" her. But it's frustrating to hear people spinning theories about how she may have lied to me. I understand that you do so out of concern for me, with the aim of protecting me from potential lies and further betrayal. But so far, she hasn't trickle-truthed me at all. There have been no further confessions, her story has stayed consistent, and she has never tried to withhold information from me or try to dissuade me from asking questions. Her answers come without hesitation and have the painful ring of truth. So far, I believe that she betrayed me horribly for two weeks, then decided to come clean.

Her confession doesn't undo the betrayal. I am still a total fucking wreck. Even if I trust her story, it's plenty bad already. It reveals a hidden rot in the core of her character. But that's where my mind is going, not "what else don't I know". I know that cheaters lie, but even knowing that, I don't believe that she's lying now. I can't force it.

Your GF may be one of the rare few who do confess and just hold nothing back.

It doesn't happen very often, which is why many are suspicious. Usually ddays happen because they're made to happen - through someone finding out, through STI, through something else. It isn't that common for someone to just up and confess. And often when a dday happens - a WS will reveal the minimum. What can be proved, what is already known, what they worry will come out.

Ddays tend - not always, but often - to have a WS go into self-protective mode.

So if everything she said is true - she's never betrayed you before, this just happened randomly, carried on for a couple weeks, she confessed because she felt bad (and not because of an STD), and she told you everything - she becomes an outlier.

Doesnt' make her impossible, just an outlier.

Not to say that has any bearing on any future chance with her, either way. If you have a spouse who is capable of mass levels of deceit and long-term lies - is that better or worse than one who just randomly snaps and starts screwing the hotel guy? It's neither. It just presents different challenges.

I don't think clarifying aspects of your relationship make you defending her.

toopol,

Regarding defending her. I get it. I do. Go take a look at my threads where I was literally pissed off at folks for even suggesting my wife was lying to me. So I did the same thing. And then of course I realized that what else is an affair but one massive pile of deceit. It was a definite mindfuck and I couldn't reconcile the two - my wife whom I'd known for more than a quarter century, and this woman who'd have a 3 month affair.

Here's the thing. They were right. She lied again. And ask around. My wife has been an example of the nearly perfect remorseful spouse and still is. Yet she had lied about some things still until I sort of forced it out of her. Someone on this thread mentioned about the guy with the remorseful wife who lied about NC with the OM because he had said he was divorced and It wasn't true - he was still married - and she needed to confront him about it. That was me. My wife. And she broke NC and lied about it. Did it prevent us from reconciling? No, we are still working at it, but SI wisdom was right.

My point is, I understand defending her. BTDT. But please understand where people on this thread are coming from. We've seen it all and have lived it. And in some ways we are suggesting the pain of the shot now to help you heal faster. It'll hurt. But the hurt later will be worse and we are trying to spare you that pain.

You are your own man. You'll do what you want. Just don't discount what we're saying simply because you think we don't know her. We may not, but the behaviors repeat and are unfortunately common.

Yep, mine lied about a lot of things, she broke contact with the OM.

They all have to lie. If they are going to lie about small shit, they are going to lie about the major faults.

toopol,

Just checking in to see how you're doing...

toopol,

Just checking in to see how you're doing...

I've been occasionally checking in here and reading other threads. I've been doing a lot of journaling and having long conversations with myself. No big news to report. Good days and bad days. Two steps forward, one step back.

How was your gf's business trip?

How did you feel about it when she actually went?

What did she do to make sure you were as comfortable as can be (besides not going at all, which would have been the right thing to do...but horses and barn doors, right?).

What has she been doing since to show you her remorse? Not long overstating with protestations of love. I'm talking actionable items. Anything?

How are you feeling? Gut, not brain.

How was your gf's business trip?

Ongoing, for another couple of weeks. We're both doing okay, but it was obviously a stupid decision and has made things more difficult.

What did she do to make sure you were as comfortable as can be? What has she been doing since to show you her remorse? Not long overstating with protestations of love. I'm talking actionable items. Anything?

We FaceTime from her hotel room every night and every morning. She FaceTimes into our weekly therapy sessions, and scheduled an extra session when she felt like she needed it. We talk about the affair and about our relationship a lot. At the start of her trip she was at a hotel that was close to the one where the affair happened, and she moved to a further, less convenient one in part to put me at ease. Maybe there's more. I don't know.

How are you feeling? Gut, not brain.

Right now, I feel shitty and pessimistic. This time yesterday, I felt optimistic, like we were on a good path to reconciliation. Generally things are slowly getting better, but I'm still blowing in the wind.

Yesterday I tried to figure out some key questions. If I choose to reconcile, do I think the pain will fade over time? Yes. Could I forgive her, eventually? Yes. Do I think she might do it again? Maybe, but I believe that she genuinely regrets it, and we're more guarded against it now, and we'll keep working on her "whys" in therapy. And if all of that goes well, is this the relationship I want to keep for the rest of my life? I'm not sure; it's hard to say "yes" so soon after the affair. But two months ago I was ready to propose to her and commit to her forever. If I think we can get past the affair, heal, and come out more fortified than before, why shouldn't I go for it?

That's my general thought process, but I'm on a downswing right now. We just talked on the phone and both made each other sad. This whole situation is just awful to live through. That's true for both of us, even though we both acknowledge her ultimate fault in it.

We broke up: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=586552

I figured I should start a new thread at this point, so go check that out for the whole story. The short version: over the course of her second trip, she slowly came to the decision that she did in fact want to see the other guy again and give that relationship a shot. I feel pretty awful, of course, but I saw it coming and braced myself. I'm prepared to move on.

This might be the most kindest thing she did for you through this whole process. She ended it. You never had it in you to end this thing inspite of your protests.

It looks like she was lying all this time. A painful lesson but you had to go through this.

You could have ended it with dignity and in control. Now you ended up being dumped. This must feel absolutely horrible. But it was necessary for you.

When experienced people tell you to "Run". Maybe next time you'll hear them. Our experience make us wiser.I am sorry you are huting but trust me, you won a lottery ticket here. NOw you are ready to start a new and healthier relationship. Btw, don't foll yourself, when she took the second trip she already had in mind cheating on you.

Yikes!

How long was the trip supposed to be? But yeah, I'm about to read the new thread. Hope you DUMPED her while she was "thinking about" her new life with herpes bell boy.

Hoped you moved out or moved her junk out before she got back into town. She kind of did you a favor.

As others have warned, she faked her remorse.

You hopefully learned a life lesson here.