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She says she feels bad for them and that she's stuck between work and home, never goes out and feels like she can go somewhere and interact with someone other than me or work for a while.

This is something you and she can can work on, outside interests, meeting new and appropriate friends, etc. That would be a good direction.

"God I wouldn't doubt it. He's creeping me out."

Eh....my WW had mentioned her a LTA AP in similar remarks while in the middle of her A. I wouldn't automatically assume nothing going on.

My first reaction was the same as MindMelted that nothing is going on. I had a jealous boyfriend once upon a time. On my past history, I never lied and he had a good sense of my general past, but I know he made assumptions that were wrong. I did not correct him because I felt that I had been as forthcoming as necessary about my past (I don't think nitty-gritty details are helpful) and he would get mad. He was very jealous.

As far as the neighbor, it strikes me that your wife is trying to handle this guy's crush herself. Again with my ex- boyfriend, I'd do much the same. My ex would have taken it upon himself to handle it, and I wouldn't want that. Obviously, my ex and I didn't work out. One of the reasons is that he wouldn't respect me enough to let me handle MY issues. I didn't want some man to come riding in to save me from the creepy neighbor. Of course me ex would do it anyway, and I always thought it made it so much worse. What I wanted was to handle it my way and have someone listen to me and support my handling of the situation. My advice would be to have a calm conversation with your wife to tell her honestly what you are worried about. I wouldn't charge over there to give the guy a warning. Your wife will still have to live next to this guy after the warning. It just seems like a warning may escalate a situation that can be handle more delicately. On the other hand, I know other women who would like nothing more than to have her H ride in and save her.

I could be very off. Your wife may be very different from me, but I wanted to give you the benefit of another perspective. Like your wife, I don't have many friends. I'm a very capable person who values my ability to handle myself. I love when my H is my partner and helps me, but I hate when others try to step in to solve my problem for me. If I need help, I will ask, but I want my H to trust /respect that I can handle my own problems or ask him for help when I need it. Good luck.

Doing a "soft 180" would be the wrong approach if someone is not having an affair but is being pursued. It might make them feel unwanted by you. Communication is your better option. I would tell her that since he is obviously hitting on her, you want no contact between them, and ask that she read "Not Just Friends" because it gives voice to your concerns.

VAR in her purse. We carry a lot of stuff in there and you'd be surprised what goes unnoticed, especially in an inside pocket.- I'm a 'trust your gut' person.

Hi Coach,

I have to say, going from what you have said, there really isn’t much evidence of an affair at all. I think that like a lot of people who have been cheated on before, we can start to see things that aren’t there. Hey, it happened to us once, so why wouldn’t it happen again? I’ve been there, and I know all about that horrible creeping feeling. But please do not start treating your wife like she is cheating until you have some kind of evidence that she is, because you may end up punishing her for doing something that she is not guilty of.

You say that your wife is a friendly and outgoing person, but she herself says that she has a very limited social life. The healthy brother probably also has a very limited social life. So in a way, it’s not surprising that your wife thought helping him with his studies would be a way for her to get out of the house a few times and just talk to someone else. Which is exactly what she has told you. I don’t think she had any ‘dark’ motivations in going over there.

Unfortunately, it does seem like the guy has got too attached to your wife, but that does not mean that your wife encourages it or wants it. She has dumped the gifts he has bought her, and as another poster has said, she wouldn’t want to tell you about another silly little gift that she didn’t want because she knows how you will interpret it.

However, given that she is intelligent, and understands psychology, there is no way that she could not know that the guy’s attitude towards her is becoming unhealthy. She even said to her friend that he is creeping her out. And when you told her that you thought his attentions were becoming inappropriate, your wife took action immediately, and cut right back on the contact.

I think she hid or trashed the gifts because she liked having the outlet of going next door, and didn’t want to endanger it. It was a silly thing to do, because as I say, the gifts were a sign that the guy’s interest was getting inappropriate. I’m sure your wife felt she could control it, that it was not going to go anywhere, etc, but she really should have shut it down rather than think it was harmless enough that it could be controlled and allowed to continue, just so she had that outlet next door.

As for the guy, his history and behaviour suggests someone quite awkward around women, and a bit emotionally ‘immature’ or repressed. Think about it; the little gifts, bringing mail to the house. Isn’t that the way a shy twelve year-old would behave? It certainly isn’t the way a slick ‘player’ would behave, or even a ‘standard’ man of his age would behave if he were attracted to a woman. Bringing mail to the door and coming face to face with the husband, only to turn and scuttle away? It sounds like something from the movie “Napoleon Dynamite”.

It sounds like the guy has a rather pathetic crush on your wife, which she – being intelligent and with her insight into psychology – probably felt she could easily control and limit. Really, as I said earlier, she should have stopped it, rather than letting it continue, but perhaps she worried that stopping it would mean ending the friendship and the outlet she had found for getting out of the house for an hour or two.

The guy sounds like he may be a bit “vulnerable”, and maybe she worried about hurting him if she had to cut him off abruptly. As I say, his ‘advances’, such as they are, are like something a high school kid would do, and I can’t help wondering if maybe he is a bit emotionally backward, or – and I honestly don’t want to cause any offence to anyone by using this term – perhaps he is a little ‘special’. That could be why your wife did not shut him down immediately. It might not be the case, but maybe you could ask why she let him continue buying the gifts. If she says because she thought it was ‘sweet’ and ‘meant nothing’, you can ask her what she thought it meant to him when she let him continue. Her comment to her friend makes it clear that she does sense an unhealthy element to his interest, but she has to be careful how she handles it, because as you say:

“I still have a gut feeling something has happened. Either he has made sexual advances towards her and she doesn't want me to find out because of fear I may do something to him (I am a gym rat, workout daily and am in amazing shape, I used to box, and this man is in his mid 50's, overweight, so yeah if I got my hands on him he would be in trouble)”.

What could she say to you, without worrying that you would go next door and rock the guy’s world? And it is quite possible that he has done nothing overtly sexual towards her, but he gives off a questionable vibe. The trouble is, being intelligent, your wife may have played that down more than she should, thinking that she is smart enough to be able to control him rather than ending contact all together.

I think it is possible that she let the silly situation continue because as dumb as it was, it gave her an outlet to get out of the house for a few hours a week, not because she thought the guy is ‘hot’ or she wants a sexual relationship with him. That was not wise, and it is good that she has now basically shut it down.

As for her stormy response to you, some have said that it is a typical ‘gaslighting’ response, and I am sure it has elements that match the response of a guilty person completely. However, it also has elements of a person’s response if they do feel a bit trapped and controlled and limited in their contact with others. I really think you need to talk to your wife and ask her about her comments relating to being smothered and trapped. Do it calmly and sympathetically. Encourage her to talk.

I don’t really see what she had to be gas-lighting about. If she wanted to cheat, I am sure a bright, attractive woman like your wife could find someone better than the middle-aged Napoleon Dynamite next door. But what if she was not gas-lighting, and she really does feel a bit desperate and cut off from people? Tell her you are concerned that she is distressed, and get her to open up about this. Tell her that you didn’t realise that she felt that way, and that you want her to tell you about it.

There are good reasons for getting her to open up. The first is that she sounds quite overwrought, and you appear to have had little idea about it. That’s a breakdown in communications, and those are never good between spouses. The second is that if she continues to feel that way, it may leave her more vulnerable to having an affair in the long-term if she ends up desperate for an emotional outlet outside the home. Everyone here knows where that can lead!

So honestly, Coach, I think the biggest and most important thing you need to discuss with her now is not the creepy dork next door, or a discrepancy in the number of her sexual partners, but the fact that she said she feels trapped, and that she was so emotional about it. That is way too important not to address it, in a patient and loving way. Also, the things she said about the marriage.

That really needs to be discussed, because it is clearly stuff she has been thinking about. It didn’t come out of nowhere when she had her outburst, did it? Words like, “Smothering” aren’t made up on the spot, in the heat of the moment. It looks like something that may have been building up for a while, and it just took the confrontation about the guy next door to bring it all tumbling out. You say that your gut has been telling you something was not ‘right’ for a while. Do you think that what you were picking up on may have been a change in your wife’s demeanour, because she was feeling the tension that came out during the confrontation?

And you can also explain to her why you were asking about stuff. In the confrontation, she took it as an accusation, but you can explain that it was an attempt to understand, not an accusation or an attack.

“I do admit I have been controlling in the past. I have been cheated on by a past gf, and rugswept that for years. I guess my brain is just hyper sensitive to this and I don't want to be made a fool of again.”

It is good that you know this, and you have to be careful not to let your suspicions run wild. That is not always easy to do, I know from my own experiences.

I think that OutoftheDeep, Mindmelted, and Northsider12 make some very good points, and it is worth re-reading their posts. There can be reasons other than cheating that caused your wife to react the way she did, and you have said yourself that there is no evidence of anything beyond a few gifts and a middle aged man acting like Napoleon Dynamite. Really, that’s all about him, not your wife, isn’t it? Would your wife really risk demolishing her marriage and family for that guy? It just doesn’t seem that way to me.

He may be acting like an annoying dope, but that does not mean that your wife responded to it or wanted it. If she does feel trapped, or controlled, or ‘limited’, she may have let the friendship continuing longer than it should purely because she has so few friendships outside the home, not because she wants an affair with the guy.

“I get that if I was accused of something, I may be aggravated about it. Especially if I have nothing to hide, but she was a bit over the top. I explained that I was just trying to find out all the pieces of the puzzle so I could get this out of my head because it's been driving me nuts. She used it as a chance to tell me that she finds me controlling, and that we can't succeed without trust. She never once made me feel better about the situation. She says she feels bad for them and that she's stuck between work and home, never goes out and feels like she can go somewhere and interact with someone other than me or work for a while.

While I'm sure she understands how it makes me feel, and while she's trying to make it better (no contact) I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle missing.”

You know what I think you should ask her, rather than anything about the guy next door or her past sexual partners? Ask her what she wants. Ask her what she needs. Do it gently and calmly. Maybe there is a piece of the puzzle missing, but maybe that missing piece is a breakdown in communications rather than infidelity. Sadly, our history means we tend to assume any bad feeling must mean cheating is happening, we jump to that conclusion, but it actually sounds more like your wife feels quite cut off and isolated, to the point where she will befriend a slightly odd couple of guys like your neighbours just to have contact with other people not related to the home or work.

Your wife has now accepted that the guy has an inappropriate crush on her, but losing that social outlet, one of the few she has, may make her feel like her world has become more limited again. So I say again, I think it would be much better and more productive to ask her what she wants and what she needs, and get her to open up to you. You have said that you and your wife are best friends, and best friends open up to each other, don’t they?

That's why I also think any 180 at the moment could be counter productive. The things she said during the confrontation could be interpreted as a cry for help, or a cry of distress, and if you turn your back on her after that, what message will you be sending to your wife? Basically, that you aren't listening. That will just widen the communication gap, and that is no good for either of you, is it?

She is not working at the moment, and you work at home a lot. It's a perfect opportunity to talk with her and get her to say what she wants out of the marriage. I can't really see a downside to doing that. Can you?

These are just my thoughts, to take or leave as you see fit.

[This message edited by M1965 at 4:14 PM, July 10th (Monday)]

I have to agree with M1965, morph, OutoftheDeep, and mindmelted. I think they've given you great advice. I won't repeat what they've said so eloquently. I think calm communication is the key.

Her reaction is how I would describe the way a guilty person would react when confronted. I don't know what she's guilty of, but she's trying to shut you up and make you stop looking for dirt.

She's done nothing with this guy. That is the reaction of a woman who isn't interested in the man.

This ^^^^

Wow, so many responses, thank you again everyone for your input. M165, thank you very much for your help as well. While I agree I made some mistakes early in our relationship, I have been very open and honest with her over the past few years. I don't feel like I control her in any way, she is a grown up and can do what she wants.

During our conversation, I was not aggressive, I was calm and did not get off the couch or raise my voice. I am not a confrontational person by nature. I would much rather talk out our issues than fight.

Regarding the overall theme of responses, I will take the advice given, give her the benefit of the doubt and let her make her own decisions. I had a conversation with her this afternoon, where I clearly stated that her being around this man makes me uncomfortable, and I believe is a threat to our marriage. I left it up to her to decide what to do.

I've decided to get IC to help me work through my trust issues. Ive come to the conclusion that the only thing I can control is my actions and I have to let everything else go. I'm going to focus on being a good dad and as good of a husband as I can be. If I get burned again in the end, so be it.

Once again, thank you all for your help. I'll reach out with an update if it's needed.

I am glad that you plan to work thru this in IC.

And I do agree with comments here by MI1965 (I wish I had his way with words) and others that you need to work on the relationship between the two of you. I would keep the focus of your discussion on that.

The one thing I dont like, and maybe this is because you haven't told us everything she said, and doesn't mean I think she is cheating, is that she is not really trying to alleviate your fears.

My wife always gets hit on and when it happens she comes and tells me. Each time (whether in the grocery store, at a big corp meeting, or at dinner w friends). Of course she's out there more in the world (corporate, volunteer, friends) so she isn't worried about losing some of the attention. But she always tries to make me feel secure when it happens.

It may be as others have said, that your wife doesn't want to lose this outlet of benign contact. But if she were smart she'd be telling you, "ugh yeah, the old guy thinks he has a chance w me. It's sweet but you got to be kidding me if you think I'm trading in my smart handsome loving husband for anything with him".

And don't think it doesn't go both ways. The other day I told my wife about the young lady who chatted me up on a plane ride home (she initiated, not me). I tell my wife every day how much she means to me and ensure we are doing more out in the world together than just hanging on the couch watching tv.

We have a good relationship but we both work hard at it every day.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. It was just something that hit me when you described her reaction. Maybe express to her that it hurts that you don't try to help alleviate your concerns and instead brush them off. You just want to be taken seriously. Communication is very important.

Hi Coach,

It sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward.

The fact is, anyone who has been cheated on will always be aware that it can happen again, and it can sometimes be hard to not feel like we are on guard duty. That's just human nature; a bad or traumatic thing happened to us, so we watch out for signs it might be happening again. I don't think ever goes away, and frankly, I don't think it's a bad thing that we do stay vigilant, as long as we keep it at a reasonable level where it isn't making our lives worse, or our partners' lives worse. And I'm not saying that about you, it is just a general point.

The key thing is to learn how to manage that vigilance and suspicion, and a good IC can help with that. There are also ways that couples can learn to defuse awkward situations, like the arrangement that Stevesn describes. His system with his wife makes both of them feel secure because any interest from third parties is immediately mentioned and discussed. And that door swings both ways, so neither person feels the 'rule' applies to just them. I really like that, and think it is a good idea.

It could be that your wife has never been cheated on, and that she doesn't understand the way betrayal can leave a person feeling, and so she didn't say much in your initial confrontation/discussion to put your concerns to rest. The reply Stevesn suggests would be the perfect response that I would want to hear, but sometimes it takes our partners a while to understand what we need. It is even possible that she said very little about the issue of her cheating with the neighbour because to her it is so utterly out of the question that she didn't see it as a dragon that she needed to slay. Unfortunately, for those of us who have been betrayed, every dragon, big or small, does need slaying.

You have done the right thing telling your wife that you are not comfortable with the actions of the neighbour, and that it is attempted intrusion on the marriage, whether or not your wife takes the guy seriously. She may well feel capable of keeping him under control, but a bright woman like her should also be capable of empathising with you enough to understand why his attention are unwelcome, and why you would prefer them to be stopped rather than maintained (however controlled they may be). I think your wife will come to see that, particularly as she said she finds him "creepy" herself.

I do think you should ask your wife some 'open' questions, like, "Is there anything troubling you? Is there anything you would like to change?", just to get her to open up and talk.

I think you are doing the right things, Coach, and please do post whenever you feel like it. I really wish this forum had been around when I needed it, but that was before the days of the internet. Now that is here, and you have found, please do make full use of it, and of us.

He definitely keeps his distance from me, which throws up more red flags to me.

My WS had an affair with someone who worked for him. This statement has really stuck out to me because this employee knew me as his wife but every time I came into the business she would go and hide never talked to me or even say hi. At the time it caused me to wonder about her, but stupid me I trusted him.

He definitely keeps his distance from me, which throws up more red flags to me.

In this case, I am sure:

1) Coach gives the guy a look that tells him exactly how much his bringing the mail to the door is appreciated.

2) Mrs Coach may well have told him that her husband does not appreciate his antics.

3) The guy is self-conscious or guilty about what he is doing. However, just because he is guilty of an inappropriate crush does not mean Mrs Coach is happy about it. A few of my female friends have told me that they have had odd guys latch onto them at work or in a social setting, and it can be tough to get rid of them without being outright nasty, which a lot of women are not comfortable doing. Sometimes they have been a little scared of guys like that, wondering what they might do if they are told to get lost. It can be awkward if an oddball sets their sights on you, but it is not your fault, it is the oddball who is the active party.

She is reacting oddly, yes, but I absolutely believe your wife is innocent of any wrong doing with this guy.

She would not respond to her friend that he was "creeping her out" if there was something going on. And given she has already discussed this creepy guy with her friend, it is clear that her friend believes this guy wants her but NOT vice versa. I am just thinking of how my convos have gone with my girlfriends with guys I like/have a crush on/have something going on with versus UGH that guy is harassing me AGAIN. Friend would not say "Oh he wants your body LOL" if your wife were having an affair. She would say "So how are things going with hot neighbor guy" or something along those lines. TO me this is very cut and dry.

Why your wife lied reminds me of the old adage that take a guys number he claims to have had sex with and take off half, take a girls number and double it. I don't think this is a massive red flag. I think that MOST people at some point in their life lie about something and doesn't make them cheaters. Especially if you are first dating you tend to really hide anything you may feel embarrassed or judged over. Your wife may not be perfect but I truly feel from what you have written there is no way she is interested in this guy.

Like the others... I don't believe anything is going on with either of the two dudes. I think the two dudes is a red herring for your 'gut feeling'. If something is going on... it ain't there. If there was anything going on I believe it would be on the other side of her bisexuality. If not the best friend like you said maybe someone else. I for one don't believe you can turn your sexuality on and off like a light switch. If your gut continues to scream at you maybe do something like put a miniture var in her purse. Between your gut and the other 2 red flags I believe if she is having an affair it may be a female. Just some food for thought.

[This message edited by Marriagesucks at 11:21 AM, July 12th (Wednesday)]