SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just re-read my first post. It is amazing how much I have grown in the "My Wife Had A Lover" department in just a couple of weeks. From the way I was covering for her and blaming myself I am surprised that I did not offer to move him in with us. This a real shit fest. When I first read that it takes years to get to where you can deal with this, I thought no way, I will be over this in a couple of weeks! You can understand now how my wife got her LOVER, I am a fucking idiot! You must agree I was sure optimistic. I see where it is said 2-5 years to get used to it, not over it, used to it.

Life is not over, but almost, maybe it may as well be.

[This message edited by Jimmy1962 at 8:12 AM, September 13th (Wednesday)]

Jimmy we all knew and felt helpless when you weren't listening. We are still concerned for you.

I hope you are able to get some individual counseling and not just joint because you have a lot to work through on your own.

I and others can tell you and your W love each other and want you to have a happy future together, but it won't happen if you aren't willing to do the hard work.

Take care.

Ps none of this was your fault. It was her choice. How you move forward from here is up to the both of you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:27 AM, September 13th (Wednesday)]

I have been having trouble with counseling, we can't hardly get in. We have been twice and that was joint counseling. I keep reading, and people keep telling me we have a lot of work to do, I keep hearing we need to work on it. We do not know, we have no idea what to do. What is the work we need to do?

To me the work is working through your feelings, emotions and thoughts. Talking about the pain with a professional. We guys try to internalize everything and cover up our pain. Put on a brace face, etc.

I know you want to stay together but you are also feeling turmoil emotionally. The goal would be to work through those thoughts and emotions so that you can live a happy life together, now with the knowledge of the A as part of the fabric of your lives.

The goal would be to make your new marriage as happy and rewarding one as it can be.

For her she needs to work through why she was able to do this and hurt the person she was supposed to protect the most. I know you say that she's a different person and now would never do that again, but you probably would have said the same about her before the A.

While she says she has gone 20 years now without another affair, I would still recommend she work on setting boundaries and living up to them. You never know the next time a smooth operator will try to walk inside those walls. It could happen tomorrow or next year. It could be at the grocery store she frequents or a place she volunteers (see walloped's thread).

You need to feel safe that she now knows how to avoid those land minds. Don't take it for granted.

Finally if getting appointments is an issue, maybe try therapists in another town. I think you said you guys are retired. Maybe make it a weekly outing where you go see separate therapists in the same firm and then go to lunch nearby and discuss. Just trying to think outside the box.

Take care.

I live in a little country bumpkin town. Our therapist is in a larger town that is an hour away. I have been thinking about calling Brian and Anne Brecht affair recover specialists. They have infidelity recovery coaches that you talk to on the phone or by Skype. Has anyone ever heard of that? Will that possibly help me?

While you are destroying yourself trying to find these resources and asking what work needs to be done to save the marriage...what is your WW doing?

This is so backwards. SHE should be the one researching and asking the questions about how to fix herself and the marriage. Your only focus should be on taking care of you.

Is she aware of this site? If not PLEASE don't tell her. But if she already is aware, why isn't she on here seeking help?

Why isnt she offering to look for teletherapists? Why isn't she reading book after book and talking to you about what she has learned? Why isn't she stepping up and getting tested for STDs??

You're going to be the one doing all the work the rest of your relationship. Interrupt that pattern. Put the onus on your WW. She needs to step up. I expect you will respond by defending her. How about letting her defend herself? What has she done to make herself a safe partner? How is she showing real remorse? How can she guarantee that she'll never betray you again? Ask her.

[This message edited by Shattereddd at 8:14 AM, September 14th (Thursday)]

While you are destroying yourself trying to find these resources and asking what work needs to be done to save the marriage...what is your WW doing?

This is so backwards. SHE should be the one researching and asking the questions about how to fix herself and the marriage. Your only focus should be on taking care of you.

Is she aware of this site? If not PLEASE don't tell her. But if she already is aware, why isn't she on here seeking help?

I suppose I am not good at conveying information. My wife spends more time on this site than I do. She spends countless hours daily on this and other sites trying to get me help. At the moment I appear to be the one in the most need. She is trying to fix herself. This happened 20 years ago and was a single affair. The last 20 years have proven her to be faithful. I am the one logged in here asking the questions, but she has asked the same questions. She is trying to help, but neither of us really know what to do. I do not especially think she needs to write a no contact letter and give it to me to mail, she hasn't spoke to him in 20 years! We could draw up a list of boundaries, for us that would be a waste of paper, we both clearly know what is and is not acceptable. She helped me with the timeline and has answered every question that I have asked. She is remorseful. She confessed. She did lie to me for 20 years, but only about this. Believe it or not we do not have trust issues.

This happened 20 years ago and was a single affair. The last 20 years have proven her to be faithful. I am the one logged in here asking the questions, but she has asked the same questions.

Jimmy1962

It’s quite common for betrayed spouses to make the comment that the spouse they loved must have been replaced by a strange alien.

Kind of like the movie “Invasion of the Body Snatchers:” In San Francisco, a group of people discover the human race is being replaced one by one, with clones devoid of emotion.

The spouse that they knew could have never cheated on them. They wonder if the spouse they knew even ever really existed. They hate the WS in front of them and long for the return of the spouse they remember.

You have a similar problem except the strange alien is your cheating wife of 20 years ago. That woman is gone and has been replaced by your current wife. You hate what that alien did and I don’t blame you. I would want to rub her nose in want she did and punish her. That woman betrayed you and doesn’t deserve to spend her golden years with you.

If you had found out 20 years ago you could have had it out with that woman and it wouldn’t have been difficult because she deserved it.

The problem is that over the last 20 years that woman has been replaced by your current wife. You have 20 years of good memories. So who do you punish now? It's like a drunk driver killing your kid but they died too.

That would drive me crazy too. To make matters even worse when you punish her now by divorcing her you’re also punishing yourself. You were looking forward to enjoying the rest of your years with her.

I have no solution for you but I understand your problem. I even understand your 20 year good wife. I look back on things I did when I was young and it feels like someone else did them. John Wayne was once asked what it felt like when he watched himself in some of his first movies. He said he felt like he was looking at the son he never had.

I do not especially think she needs to write a no contact letter and give it to me to mail, she hasn't spoke to him in 20 years!

The process of cleaning up their act demonstrates to the BS how dedicated the WS is to the marriage. You don't even get that show because it's already clean.

[This message edited by Michigan at 4:41 PM, September 14th (Thursday)]

I am a fucking idiot!

Sorry, but I had to laugh! There's a couple of thousand of us here that need to get that T-shirt.

Take comfort that you are in good company.

And on the affair, remember 20 years ago we were all a lot younger and stupid. I never had much luck with counseling, but I wasn't the one screwed up. "Not Just Friends" is an excellent book. Sometimes just a good friend or two helps more than you can imagine. And of course, you have us!

[This message edited by twisted at 4:37 PM, September 14th (Thursday)]

She spends a lot if time reading here,trying to get you help. Then why not sign up and post? Telling her story, and getting feedback,answering questions,and allowing the former waywards here to guide her in the right direction,seems to be the best way to accomplish getting that help. So,what's stopping her? It's anonymous. If she's truly sincere about seeking help,she will start posting. Honestly, that she's not is odd,to say the least. Maybe there's more to this than she's told you,and she's afraid the very wise members here will see through her,in a way you can't, because you're perspective is clouded by your love for her.

Jimmy you clearly love your wife very much and I am guessing she feels the same about you. This kind of thing can eat away at you if you let it. You are going to have to get some closure.

Why don't you suggest a polygraph to confirm this was her only affair and to check the timeline she gave you? You both can agree that if she passes you can reconcile this issue through marriage counseling.

Your relationship is at a crossroads. It can go 2 ways. You can punish her forever and fall out of love or you can use it as a springboard to improve your relationship.

[This message edited by Smillie at 5:25 PM, September 14th (Thursday)]

My wife spends more time on this site than I do. She spends countless hours daily on this and other sites trying to get me help. At the moment I appear to be the one in the most need. She is trying to fix herself. This happened 20 years ago and was a single affair. The last 20 years have proven her to be faithful. I am the one logged in here asking the questions, but she has asked the same questions. She is trying to help, but neither of us really know what to do.

.......

She spends a lot if time reading here,trying to get you help. Then why not sign up and post? Telling her story, and getting feedback,answering questions,and allowing the former waywards here to guide her in the right direction,seems to be the best way to accomplish getting that help. So,what's stopping her? It's anonymous. If she's truly sincere about seeking help,she will start posting.

Exactly this^^^

It's often said to (especially new) BS's here to keep this place their 'safe place' and not to tell their WS they are here. But in this case, you say your wife already knows about this site and reads here more than you. You say she's here trying to get help.

So why isn't she posting on the wayward forum? If she uses the 'stop' sign it prohibits any BS's from posting on her threads. She would be on a protected forum talking exclusively to people who have been in her shoes. There is a whole community of FWS's here with a wealth of knowledge who would provide exactly the sort of advice (from personal experience) that you say she is looking for - how to help you, and how to help herself. Why isn't she doing that?

Do you people here believe that I should do what my minister / counsellor / uncle and my paid therapist tell me to do???

When my wife told me about the affair I reached out to my uncle who is a minister, he helps people with all sorts of problems. He recommended a therapist and gave me their number. I called the therapist the first thing the next morning and they were expecting my call, my uncle had called them already. The therapist could not get us in for three weeks. After my uncle heard that I went to the other mans home looking for him with a gun, he got us into the therapist the next day.

Do you people here believe that I should do what my minister / counsellor / uncle and my paid therapist tell me to do?

Hellfire

She spends a lot if time reading here,trying to get you help. Then why not sign up and post? Telling her story, and getting feedback,answering questions,and allowing the former waywards here to guide her in the right direction,seems to be the best way to accomplish getting that help. So,what's stopping her? It's anonymous. If she's truly sincere about seeking help,she will start posting. Honestly, that she's not is odd,to say the least. Maybe there's more to this than she's told you,and she's afraid the very wise members here will see through her,in a way you can't, because you're perspective is clouded by your love for her.

sinsfothefather

It's often said to (especially new) BS's here to keep this place their 'safe place' and not to tell their WS they are here. But in this case, you say your wife already knows about this site and reads here more than you. You say she's here trying to get help.

So why isn't she posting on the wayward forum? If she uses the 'stop' sign it prohibits any BS's from posting on her threads. She would be on a protected forum talking exclusively to people who have been in her shoes. There is a whole community of FWS's here with a wealth of knowledge who would provide exactly the sort of advice (from personal experience) that you say she is looking for - how to help you, and how to help herself. Why isn't she doing that?

Well, my therapist, my minister/counselor uncle, and a few others that I trust and have spoke with about my situation all, ALL, tell me to stay off this site.

I found this site when I was at my lowest and I feel that it is helping me. I have printed out pages of comments that some of you have made on my posts, I read them over and over because they give me comfort. I showed them to my therapist, she said "this is good stuff" and she wanted to keep them. She again told me that she thought I should stay off this site. My therapist and all of the others that I have mentioned were adamant that I SHOULD NOT ASK and my wife SHOULD NOT TELL me details about her affair. I told my wife that she had two choices, not tell me what I wanted know and I file for divorce, or tell what I want to know and I may still file. She agreed that she had nothing to loose and told me everything. It helped me tremendously. It helped me for her to do exactly the opposite of what the know it all's told her to do.

My wife is a little apprehensive to do exactly the opposite of what professionals are telling us to do. Does she listen to the professionals and stay off these sites, or does she listen to total strangers some of which make some pretty awful assumptions of her and comments about her.

I personally feel that I am getting some help here. I am intelligent enough to listen to what I find helpful here and ignore the rest. You guys have been a help to me. You guys have been a help to my wife, even though she is not posting (yet) she is learning.

I see everyday on the Just Found Out forum where someone writes a post and says that they have been on here a while looking but are just now posting. I have never seen anyone give then nine kinds of hell for not posting earlier!

Please give my wife a break. She is trying any and every way that she can to help me and make this better for me. She has said several times that she wants to make me better even if that means that I leave her. She is really trying, give her a break.

I am intelligent enough to listen to what I find helpful here and ignore the rest.

Boom. Nailed it.

You're getting a lot of advice, some of it is hard to read. Remember that we have all received these 2X4s and had to "take what we need and leave the rest."

You're doing great Jimmy, sincerely.

As to your question...it really doesn't matter what we think, or what the licensed professionals think (by the way, they are on this site too). What matters is, what do you think you should do? What does your gut tell you?

Personally, I found myself spending too much time on this site at one point. It became unhelpful in my healing, a form of pain shopping. I had to, as it appears you are doing, evaluate what I was getting and what I needed, and made adjustments.

That being said, this site...these people...saved my life. I'd still be living in infidelity, believing my XWW's lies, risking my health, if it weren't for the guidance and insight from this community.

There are a few things I think would he helpful for your WW.

The first would be for her to stay out of JFO. It is not a good place for new waywards trying to get a grasp on what to do. It would just be frustrating and scary. There is a lot of excellent advice given in JFO for BSs, but there is also a lot of projecting. There are a lot of very hurt people in there and any wayward can easily become a target, as I am sure you have seen.

If or when she decides to post in the Wayward section have her be sure to use the stop sign. There is equally excellent advice available for waywards in that forum and I think it would be very helpful for her to understand what to do to help you.

Hi Jimmy,

I think the reasoning behind the "don't ask, don't tell" approach is that the less you know, the less that can torment you; and the less you know about what a person has done, the less material you have that might make you think less of them. And so on. And it does make sense in a rug-sweeping kind of way, because as countless threads in this and other forums prove, the real issues can be extremely difficult to deal with or redeem. It is much easier to say, "Hey, why don't you plan a nice vacation in a month's time" than, "Hey, why don't you go over every last detail and analyse it". But it all depends on what kind of healing you want to happen.

In the UK, we have a saying: "Papering over the cracks". It means ignoring problems, and laying an acceptable veneer over them, like putting wallpaper over a cracked wall without fixing the crack. "Don't ask, don't tell" is similar, and based on what you and countless others have said in this forum, they want and need to know every last detail. Absorbing it all can be a gruelling experience, made harder if the trickle truth process means that people wind up feeling like they will never know everything, as they are hit with a series of fresh d-days with every new revelation.

That is why I believe it is best to lance the boil, let the bad stuff out, and apply treatment and disinfectant. And you know what? Sunlight is a fantastic natural disinfectant. I'm not kidding, it's a scientific fact; exposure to sunlight kills germs. Exposure.

Dealing with the details can be horrible, and the rollercoaster of emotions it generates can be exhausting. I think that it has been beneficial for you to be able to fire random thoughts at various boards here, as and when they occur to you, because it is a pressure release valve for you, and you do get some good and wise feedback.

Yes, you will also get some responses that conform to a "Burn the Witch!" outlook, and those can be extremely upsetting and traumatising if you don't have the ability to filter them out. I feel very sorry for some posters who arrive in a clearly vulnerable and upset state, and who vanish quickly after a barrage of messages saying, "She's a homewrecking slut with no morals, ditch the bitch or you're a weak, emasculated idiot".

That stuff helps no-one, and the recipient has to have their mental firewall up to be able to filter it out. Some people in the aftermath of infidelity are so exhausted that they have no firewall, and they can be very hurt by a bombardment of "Burn the Witch!" That is why these forums have a bad reputation in some quarters. However, you are a bright guy. You have your firewall up, and you have the ability to pick the good from the bad, the useful from the angry venting or projecting, and from what you say yourself, the overall experience has been beneficial for you. That being the case, I don't think it is a bad thing for you to continue reading and posting here.

In fact, I believe that reading and posting in other peoples' threads can help you work through your own issues, because you are considering things from a detached position, rather than what is directly affecting you. It can help you get a broader perspective on things. Yes, there may be a potential negative of encountering things that trigger you, but if you start to find that happening a lot, then give the forum a break for a while. It should not become 'pain shopping', nor upset you more than it is doing you good, but I think you will know it if those things start happening. So I think you can use these forums safely, because you have your firewall up, and you are aware of the potential negative tangents that could open up to you.

As for your wife posting, I think she could do it, and that it could be beneficial for her. There are plenty of 'waywards' who post and ask how they can help their BS, and they get useful feedback. As others have already said, she can get a red 'Stop' sign applied to her thread (I think she would have to message the moderators to get that applied), and that will mean that only other waywards can post in her thread. That means she won't be facing a lynch mob, but she will be able to get advice from others who have been in her position. Also, I think you should work on her posts together, and - as her husband and protector - you should read through the replies with her, to make sure no-one is being hurtful or negative.

These forums can be good, positive, and very beneficial, as long as you are aware of the potential pitfalls and you are ready to recognise them. What is so great about them is that they offer something which many professionals can't, which is advice from people who have actually been through the same things, and whose experience is based entirely on what happened in the real world, rather than just theory. Both forms of support are valid, and both can offer much good stuff, so why limit yourself to one or the other? Instead, why not pick and choose the good and useful stuff from both?

I've been following your story from the beginning, and I truly wish you and your wife well as you work through this. And I do believe you will work through it. It may be stormy, and at times just awful, but what you have for each other is long-term love, and after the fiercest storm, there is always a calm sea and a bright sunrise. You will both get there, Jimmy, and if we can be of assistance to help you get there, it will be our privilege to do that.

Sending you strength, and all good wishes.

[This message edited by M1965 at 11:33 AM, September 15th (Friday)]

You've got some great advice from M1965 there Jimmy. The only thing I'd add to it is that it's actually automatic that you have a red 'STOP' sign (prohibiting any BS's from posting on the thread) on your thread if you start a new one in the Wayward forum. Only 'Waywards' are allowed to start threads and only they can post on threads with the red stop sign. You have to *manually unclick* the STOP sign to remove it. The protection is automatically applied, and it's the poster themselves that removes it, if they so choose to do so.

I've seen a lot of bad advice given by professionals. Your IC may be trained, but that doesn't make them an expert. Your Minister and uncle have no clue.

All want you to rugsweep. Of course your wife is listening to them.

What matters is what you want and need. If you need details,she gives them. Only you know what you need,and don't.

Perhaps you should do some research and find a IC who is more qualified. One who encouraged full transparency and honesty.

We may be total strangers. But it sounds like we've helped her husband way more than the supposed professionals.

No one isn't giving her a break. People are encouraging her to step up and do certain things that will aid your healing, her healing, and the healing of the marriage. Reading is good. Posting and getting specific advice for your specific situation is better.

Most supposed 'professionals' have never experienced what they're counseling others on. They read the books, receive the diploma, and buy the t-shirt, but they have no idea how it happens and what it actually feels like. In other words, they don't know what the hell they're actually talking about. They find some avenue that seems to work for most clients and they stick to that as their go-to one-size-fits-all solution.

The beauty of this site is that you're hearing from people who have been through or are going through what you're experiencing. The folks here have, through trial and error, found what works for them. It's not all the same answer for everyone. We all deal and heal differently.

The site allows you hear from folks who've been there and to hear the different ways of finding a solution. It allows you to see that there is hope regardless of where you are in the process. It also help you to realize that you're not alone; that there are thousands of us going through the same or similar situations. It gives you hope.

Anyone who tells you to stick your head in the sand and not ask questions or learn about what you're dealing with, is an idiot. The worst thing you can do is to separate yourself and not ask questions. We all have our tipping points as far as how much we want to know, but we all want to know at least a little about what and why.

Something that I noticed while working toward my BS in psychiatry is that most of the students taking the courses were doing so because they were emotionally screwed up and were trying to understand their own problems. So when you're confessing your issues to a counselor or therapist, know that a high percentage of them are more mind-fracked than you are.

There is an excellent self-help book, available about anywhere, the top seller for centuries, with testimonials from tens of millions of people, the key to serenity. It will enable you to get off the drugs, stop seeing counselors, forgive everyone, and achieve happiness. Its instructions are clear. It has been thoroughly proven to work.

Just don't let anyone know. There are plenty of people who will think you are nuts for consulting it.