SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Agree with realitybites and want to add - beware of crappy ICs.

If you hear something like "affair is already in the past, you should now think about the future and about the things you did that led to your WW cheating", just run.

I'm still of the mind that there is more going on with her phone then "privacy issues". Have you considered running Dr. Phone or another app on it to see what deleted texts come up?

Have you considered having her read "how to help your spouse heal from an affair"?

Is switching to a new job away from OM not an option?

I agree, that you have done all of the heavy lifting, she is coasting on the fact that this will be swept or she is still in the affair. Not trying, not taking blame and not believing you will really ever divorce her.

MC is completely useless until she is telling the truth. She will lie to this person just as much as she is lying to you.

OZ! YES!

She says she won't be controlled or emotionally abused by my snooping. She's not willing to live her life like that.

Haha! As others have said above, the whole thing is crumbling around her little head.

I'm still of the mind that there is more going on with her phone then "privacy issues". Have you considered running Dr. Phone or another app on it to see what deleted texts come up?

(Freeme)

I agree.

3rd party? You already have a 3rd party in this relationship and THAT is the problem, sweetiepie! ( Sorry, a little projection there of what I would have told her)

Privacy was forfeited when she was caught screwing around, if she wants privacy, there's the door.

She thinks it's still your fault, she hasn't accepted the blame or responsibility for her actions. Not good.

Her actions and response show she is in a defensive panic mode, be careful, and I agree with others, a good talk can get it out it the open for all to see, but know when it's time to shut up and walk away. She's good manipulation, at the first sign of it, shut it down.

You've received a lot of good advice, I'm not sure how this is going to end, but you might seriously consider if R is the right choice for you. Is it actually possible that you could love and trust this woman again, after the shitstorm she is still throwing at you? She certainly is not remorseful or contrite, and I have my doubts as to if she ever get to that point. It's YOUR option to R, not hers. It's an important decision, so don't rush it.

Whatever you decide, it's better than where you are now.

Doing good, Oz. Doing very good.

I think the fact that needs a 3rd party to validate your concerns versus listening to her husband is a deal breaker in and of itself.

She thinks she can control the outcome. She doesn't understand that staying M now is 100% your choice. If she wanted a D she could have done so prior to the A. Now she placed the decision about the future of the M in your hands.

I think you are safe to assume she is not telling the truth. There was a lot more to Friday then she is willing to talk about.

After some time she will realize how little control she does have and will attempt to hoover you back in. Trying regain the advantage. Don't take the bait. Look up the 180 in the healing library.

I hate talking tactically about M and R, but honestly that is more than likely how she sees it. It is like a chess game.

The fault in the "D," is really irrelevant in the longer timeline. People will make up their own "assumptions." If her behavior is any indication, everyone will figure out what happened.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 12:22 PM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

It would be a huge mistake to let a counselor be the mediator for a situation where you have every right to be prosecutor, judge and jury. Your WW is simply trying to avoid consequences.

Her demonstrations of remorse can't be mediated. They can't be negotiated. Either she is or isn't.

She isn't.

Her behaviour is running so on script, that her future behaviour is very predictable. I've lived it, and read it here again and again.

Firstly, do not argue with her...it is self-defeating. She is selfish and entitled, she has shown you this...that is who she is. Do not cling on to who you thought she was as that too is self-defeating. You cannot reason with someone like this. Her selfishness and entitlement has enabled her to convince herself that you are responsible for her decision and choice to cheat. I know it sounds crazy, I too thought wtf! when faced with this mindset, but the reality is you are dealing with someone devoid of taking responsibility for their own actions. They're weak, they can't face guilt and self-blame.

Going forward, expect her to get verbally abusive, mean, cruel. Again you're probably thinking 'no..she's not capable', but not that long ago you wouldn't have thought her capable of cheating on you. As divorce becomes more of a reality to her, she will start to get angry with you. You will be well advised to purchase a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and keep it on you at all times when in her company. When they're this screwed up and angry, it doesn't take much for them to falsely accuse you of domestic violence. Again you're, probably thinking 'no way!' but watch as the anger unfolds. Protect yourself!

I concur about protecting yourself with a VAR...you may even be able to get an app for you phone to do that with.

Either way, protect yourself.

you were right when you said you were done.

Stop the MC. Do not take her to IC.

meet with the attorney and file for D.

She works with the AP, she is still in the A.

She shaved for him, not for you.

when the cheat the second and third time, you wonder why you did not file at the first A.

Do not continue to hurt yourself. Save yourself.

File for D now.

D in Australia is a bit different. You have to "separate" for 12 months before you can file.

It's possible to separate in the same house, but in reality it's one moving out.

Despite lots of opinions to the contrary, I think I'm better off moving out.

Certainly for the long term, moving out now makes it easier than asking her to move out and having to do it when we do finally divorce.

We have another MC booked on Monday. I suspect this is the last one I'll be going to.

Whilst initially I believed her about Friday, I now don't again. Regardless of the truth, I can't move past it.

She knows what she could do to help me trust her, but she refuses to do it.

I have now resigned myself to the fact that it will never work.

Let's say we move past it all, I'll always wonder about the Friday.

The only way I feel like I'll ever believe her is of she tells me the worst. Then what? 2 weeks in and she's at it again? I can't handle the disrespect. For me, truth or not, my reality is that she did see the AP on Friday.

So I'm at a point where I don't trust her. She's actively concealing "nothing" from me and expecting me not to be controlling.

It just isn't going to work for me.

I know it will absolutely break my heart missing my kids for half the time. It'll break my heart when she does move on and when she likely goes back to the asshole she had the affair with.

At some point though, I'll heal and move past the pain, but I know it's going to hurt like crazy.

I don't want to think that she'll be vindictive, but I suspect that she will. She is that type of person. I'm not.

There are a few things in the 180 that I will do, but there are some that I won't.

My core values are too important to me.

I'll l keep you all updated.

For now, I'm not doing well. I've made it very clear to her where I stand. I don't think she quite thinks it's reality yet, but after our next MC she probably will.

I will still go in willing to consider all outcomes, but right now, I can't see any option working other than D

It just isn't going to work for me.

I know it will absolutely break my heart missing my kids for half the time. It'll break my heart when she does move on and when she likely goes back to the asshole she had the affair with.

At some point though, I'll heal and move past the pain, but I know it's going to hurt like crazy.

I feel your pain, brother. I'm in the exact same position as you. Life will be very tough for a while, but it's the hope for a brighter future that makes this worth it. You refuse be a doormat any more!

Strength for the both of us.

"I changed the PIN because I knew you were snooping". What the hell?! So she wants her privacy after cheating on you? My goodness. When she cheated she lost all of her rights to any privacy until you guys reconcile, heal, and recover any trust. Is she for real???

Oz your wife is a gaslighting goddess. That is some hardcore gaslighting,"I changed my PIN because you are snooping on my phone" wow that is some crazy intense gaslighting. She changed her PIN because the A is still going and she blames your snooping not her having an ongoing affair. I'm sorry this is happening to you. She is still in the affair, lost in the fog. The only thing you can do is file and move out. Maybe that will snap her out of it, it usually does and it's pretty much your only option to get out if infidelity quickly.

From what you said she is not ready to end her affair. She wants the marriage and her affair. Usually waywards do not immediately end the affair after d-day and that is what's happening right now. She shaved before work Friday because she had plans to be with him and her locked phone is because she is still communicating with him. Shock and awe is all you can do, file for d. If she wants R then it is on yiur terms. Total transparency and she quits her job. There is no way for your marriage to survive this if she is still seeing him at work all week every week.

Why has your WW not changed/quit her job?

As long as she has the possibility of seeing her AP on a regular basis, it will keep the fire of the A alive. The contact is the fuel.

It does not matter if they do not work in the same department, or do not have official daily contact, just being in the same building gives them the opportunity. What needs to be done is to take away that opportunity.

If you are dead-set on D, then don't ask for her to quit/change her job, as she will then have income to support herself.

You go on about being the better man, and I applaud you for that noble gesture, but noble gestures are lost on barbarians. If there is anyone that you need to be noble for; is your children, and yourself, certainly not your petulant/stubborn WW.

Please note that your noble actions can be misconstrued as being weak, and weak = doormat, and doormat = continued A.

I just want to cast a vote for outing her A. And here's why- We kept it to ourselves, especially with the kids (they're adults, but still. If we wanted to stay together, I didn't want the added grief of family angst over this). Yet he broke NC with a couple texts. After that I had enough. I notified a friend who was married to one of his friends, also a golf partner and sometime customer of his. It is amazing that when he felt the shame of his stupid little A in the harsh light of reality, he suddenly began to actually get the gravity of what he'd done. He didn't have any consequences before except for having to answer to me and going to MC. But after exposure, it all changed.

You don't have to tell everyone, just someone that matters to her.

I've told her she needs to tell her mum. Something she plans to do today.

Im giving her the opportunity to do it, and I know that most of you will disagree, but I'm not an ass.

If she doesn't do it, I most certainly will.

My dad half knows, but will know for certain next week. I've kept it from my mum, because it's more harm to me with my mum knowing.

Over the course of the next few weeks, I'll drop feed our friends, and ultimately when it doesn't work out, it will all come out.

Thats just it, if nobody actually knows whats really happening from you, then she gets to either write the narrative or keep it under wraps as much as possible.

Either way, she gets to avoid any real consequences.

Keeping quiet is far worse for you than telling all your friends and family right now.

I'm always amazed by how grown ass people often play these childish games with each other, I might call them the infidelity games, but it seems to qualify for the infidelity games you need to have the maturity of a 15 year old.

Dude your wife cheated and slowly you are figuring out the caring understanding doormat route is not the route to go but why in heaven do you need a third party to tell her what she did was wrong?

Not only is she pushing back against your R attempts but she's actively undermining your authority. You know she's done wrong, she knows she's done wrong but she needs a third person to qualify this? So in essence what you've just signed yourself up to is a very long road where each and every step in the R process will now need to be rubber stamped by a third party.

Sorry you are going through all this Ozz,is it possible she got all shaved and pimped up to see her boyfriend on Friday night at the leaving party ,but he maybe dumped her ,and that's why she was crying for over an hour .

For your own good ,I think you need to push through with the divorce plan ,maybee she can see the damage she has done .

You can always reconsider, if you can see a real change in her attitude