SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just writing that title is mortifying. I can't believe my life... the perfect life I thought we/I had... the man I married 23 years ago- who the fxxk is he? After some serious detective work, I discovered my worse nightmare. Is happy ending crap considered infidelity?? Did he??? He said he knew it was wrong lol. He said that increased as the gambling increased? I still do not know details. I am afraid.

found out 2 weeks ago...I don't know what to think or feel..I am walking around numb, almost pretending this is unreal

[This message edited by Sherlytemple at 9:19 PM, September 6th (Wednesday)]

Sheryl,

AMP's are not simply hj's. Men can pay for the masseuse/prostitute to be topless and/or naked. Bj's and full sex can be paid for. Mutual touching, body rubbing, oral and manual sex in her can all be had for a price.

Get the truth first. Don't let him "just a handjob" you.

I'm so sorry.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 8:56 PM, September 6th (Wednesday)]

Hi Sherlytemple I know how you feel! Just found out 3 months ago after my serious detective work that my loyal, loving husband of 30 years has f%*#ked at least 11... 20 year old escorts. I'm sure that isn't the whole story either. So shocking and beyond painful. Yes don't believe a word! Mine lied and lied and lied. Total me at first he just got on sites and never did anything. I found his "reviews" online of his experiences with these whores. So sorry. Know you're not alone in this.

And "Greeneyesbluezy" I love your tag line...hahahahahah

well this is devastating to hear. thank you so much for the information. I know I need to talk to him more... he is a con man ...and I am afraid to hear. I did ask if they ever had their top off and he said no. But why would I believe him,right? He has started counseling... Kaiser and privately ( starting Mon).

Jewel how are you handling it? Are you still together?

Greeneyes...is this backroom stuff something you have experienced personally?

Should I react differently because it's "nonpersonal" or not emotional?

Sherly,

It's what happens at these places.

Non emotional cheating is cheating. Does it make you feel better that he maybe didn't love them?

I don't have the answer whether cheating sex - love is better than sex + love. To me, it's still a shit sandwich, with different condiments.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 9:50 PM, September 6th (Wednesday)]

So sorry Sherly, it is extremely devastating to find out the person you have been married to leads a seedy and despicable second life. My WH was a frequent Asian massage parlor john, and yes it is definitely infidelity. And they offer vaginal sex, oral sex and hand jobs. Just depends on how much "tip" you are willing to spend. It is a tragic, degrading and ugly business. They charge 60 dollars or so for the basic "massage" and then add on services--prob 40 for hand job, 80 for oral and 100 for intercourse.they have to perform these acts on a narrow table, they usually take their shirt off or take all of their clothes off , and have to endure the groping of the man, and they more often than not hop on top and have vaginal sex. Then they either rinse them off with a "table shower" or use hot towels. Disgusting and gross, demeaning and it encourages human trafficking. Sorry to be blunt, but do not torture yourself thinking that this is some exotic tantric experience its just prostitution . The women despise the customer. The men are just nameless faceless johns. It is a different kind of betrayal than if there is a long term emotional affair--they risk their health (and yours) they risk being arrested ( there are a lot of "stings" that happen in Asian parlors) not to mention what they risk in terms of losing their wife and children and jobs. Why do they do it? Mine had a real fetish for Asian women, he fantasized they were "exotic" "subservient" "mysterious" blah blah blah. He even went to China 3 different times, mostly to visit prostitutes, which are readily available to all western men staying in hotels there. If you need to find more evidence check your bank statements for ATM withdrawals of 140-200

dollars. The thing about these parlors is they can remain anonymous and untraceable but they have to have cash . Please do not think that it is any kind of failing on your part that he did this, it is an escape from reality for them, they think they are being super raw and risk taking and living life on the edge-looking for a dopamine rush--just like gambling.

Does your husband watch alot of porn too? Mine did. And he also used Backpage escorts and tried to meet people on Ashley Madison. These guys are sick, and it has nothing to do with us. I do not know how much you have confronted him about yet, but if you can, and you want to know the extent of what he has done try and hold off long enough to look through the bank account and his deleted messages and emails if possible. Once confronted he will lie lie lie, it will only be once or twice, then only a hand job, then maybe a blow job but with a condom etc. etc. when it is usually full on intercourse . Get an STD test too. With guys like ours it is a real battle to find out the truth, they will NOT admit to anything that you cannot prove. You got this!!! Be strong and be mighty!!

Wow. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand. Tracking the money thing will be difficult to dissect, as he was hiding a bad gambling habit as well. I did have a phone app installed secretly and saw that he went to one. But you are helping me understand how the behaviors go together. I did get him tested and saw the results myself, and that was good. But you are right, I continue to find out more crap, more deception each time I get the courage to ask. Last time I asked, he used the excuse that he wanted to discuss things with the mediation of a therapist

" because he doesn't know how to do this"and I didn't push. He has lied our whole marriage and is beyond excellent at it... how do I know if he is telling me the truth? He has said he has gone " every once in a while" since we have been married and then started going once a month... then another time when I was asking how often, because he was giving me no details, he said it increased to maybe twice a month .... how much xtra cash can a man have?? He maxed our credit cards secretly in one year, I know that.

What is the best way to communicate with guys like this?

Thanks for the candor and bluntness ladies.

Sherly - I am so sorry you are here. I just wanted to encourage you to read in either the Emotionless Infidelity or Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts threads in the I Can Relate forum. There you will find many people whose spouses engaged with prostitutes. (I never let my WH refer to the women he engaged with as escorts or masseuses...they are all prostitutes and our WHs need to face that reality). Anyway, these threads are very supportive and it sometimes helps to be with people who understand exactly what you are going through.

I don't really have anything to add. I echo treading very carefully with regard to what your WH claims to be the truth. At this point, you can't trust anyone but yourself. If your gut is screaming, listen to it. My WH lied to my face repeatedly for five months after DDay and on the lives of his mother and our child that his activities were "only" xyz. My gut wasn't having it and finally after an epic meltdown on my part he admitted to more. It shouldn't have had to come to that and I'm not sure what I would have done differently... maybe I would have made a polygraph a condition of staying married, or simply said I don't believe you and unless you tell me the whole truth now we are done? It is so hard to gather the wits to be so firm, though, in all the raw confusion and emotion.

Take care of yourself and don't rush to promise your WH anything. Seek individual counseling for yourself and consult a lawyer about what divorce would look like for you...this doesn't mean you will follow through, but it helps you feel empowered.

What is the best way to communicate with guys like this?

Honestly?

Through a divorce attorney.

He's not reconciliation material. At all. He's a serial cheater. They don't change. A handful have through intense therapy, but most don't change.

He's cheated on you your entire marriage. He's lied to you entire marriage. He's continually put you in financial jeopardy with his irresponsibility.

What exactly are you trying to save?

My biggest piece of advice is to know that he's NOT SAFE for reconciliation. The cheating and lying is lifetime pattern behavior. He's high risk and that means the chances of him turning his life around becoming the man you want him to be are not in your favor. I'm just being realistic.

Please proceed with extreme caution if you do decide to reconcile.

I'm so sorry you had to join our club.

Think about the kind of women who are working in these massage parlors. They are usually illegals, drug addicts, or under age. Some are victims of trafficking. They are not prostitutes like Julia Roberts from Pretty Woman. Your husband is using very vulnerable women for his sexual gratification. Do you want to live your life with someone like that? I would think long and hard about it.

Shirlytemple I am so sorry you have reason to join us here but it's good that you have found SI; it's a true life saver.

Yes, it's infidelity and it's disgusting, very, very sick. They lead an abusive, violating double life. They exploit these women, sometimes girls, and they exploit us.

I found out two years ago my H had been going twice weekly for the past ten years. I am no longer in clinical shock and we do still live together but life is not at all the same.

My H ceased all such activity and went into therapy; he attends SA meetings even though technically not SA though he sure had the habit. Your H may be SA but whether or not he is a very sick person.

But Shirly you have to focus on you and regaining your sense of self, your sense of sanity. Please try to find a good IC who can work with trauma victims. Try to find a good support group--check out BAN and SANON meetings and go to as many as possible to see where you feel comfortable. Finding IL support is invaluable. SI is great but you need real life people to. If you can confide in a solid, supportive relative or friend. Try exercising every day; be sure to get proper rest even if it means using a supplement. Have you already been tested for STDs? If not then do so. I know many people find it humiliating; I did not. Doctors are used to all sorts of things. You need not go into any details just tell them you want testing for everything. I know I felt better just doing something healthy for myself. In fact I felt better just doing something.

Try to be with good people as much as possible. They need not know if you do not want to tell but do not be alone. Other people can help you feel normal.

Read as much as possible. I know most of the material is about a traditional affair; a large amount is about SA. But read on anyway. Some of it can be helpful, especially ways to start to feel better.

Do not burden yourself with serious, weighty decisions now. That can wait till you are out of shock. In fact, it can wait forever. Now is only for committing to self-care.

You are not alone. There is. group here on SI for those of us whose Hs' committed Emotionless Infidelity. I have found it a godsend. There was no such group two years ago when I discovered. There is another group for Spouses of Sex Addicts. That can be very helpful too.

Yes, they do what they do to escape. It's not unlike a drug. But spouses of drug addicts and alcoholics to not quite feel the extreme disgust and shame, the loss of self esteem, the whole ugly reality as do we; at least that is what I have been told by those whose partners had other addictions as well. And knowing why they went or what 'benefit" it provided does absolutely nothing to comfort. Is there any relief in knowing there was no attachment or love or affection? Not for me. Im more hurt than disgusted by his need to use those women that way; my self-esteem is down not because of my looks or my ways, but because I was living with a man with no morals, no conscience, no heart. And now, even though he's stopped, even though he may in some ways feel worse than I, certainly a different kind of worse, I think if I were younger and had no children, no extreme financial need I would not continue--I think Id want to cleanse myself of the taint he brought to the relationship.

But again, try now to think about healing and doing all you can to reach your place of okay. And you will. You're not alone and you will be okay. And lots and lots of people right here on SI to help.

Thank you all. Marji, thank you. You truly understand. I am just finishing with work today, but read your messages throughout... and I had some serious crying jags. Reality is starting to hit. Interestingly, I find this weird ability to turn it off at times, just so I can function- pretend it didn't happen so I am not so miserable, so that I can drive down the road straight lol. I talked to him today, and tried hard to hear more and get him to talk to me. He said it was never more than a hand job and some groping? sigh... I fear and feel there probably is more to come as you all have mentioned. He doesn't do porn as far as I can tell... he does not leave his work computer unattended. I have scored the phone and his ipad..does anybody know how to check history on one?

On the radio just this afternoon today, I was listening to this talk on happiness and pleasure... the differences, etc and why pleasure leads to addiction in our neuroreceptors , etc. And what I learned is that the exact medication that my husband is on =Mirapex -for his restless legs- has been known to cause compulsive behavior- namely gambling and sex..wow.

of course, lord of mercy that is no freaking excuse! but there apparently have been class actions suits ,etc. He is going to talk to the doctor and get off of it.

He is going to GA ( 4th meeting tonight), and indiv therapy ( third one Mon), and we are going to try reconciling...at this point anyway...

My kids are ( have to learn abbreviations!)are 18,20 and 22 and I am in my 50s...right now he is choosing us over that crap and i want to believe it... stupidity, naivety, insanity, big freaking chicken? IDK.

I will def look into counseling, should I use the same one as WS? Marji... has he been in counseling for a year? is DD when you found out?

Thank you all for the advice, and the other threads...you are awesome.

Sherly I know you are going to be ok; you sound very strong and very nice. My H has been in therapy for two years now and yes D-Day is discovery. We both go together to our Counselor who did not think working individually with my H was helping; we don't do MC as such and our C is not an MC but a psychotherapist who more typically works one to one. You asked about your using your H's therapist--that would be up to all of you. Some therapists are not comfortable with that so you just need to ask.

If you think your H is an SA then you might find it most helpful to work with an CSAT who knows what you are experiencing. At very least you might find it best to work with someone very experienced with the trauma of sexual betrayal. Our C is not a CSAT but had years of experience in the SA area and trained therapists in SA.

By the way, and don't know if it's any consolation, but some of the parlors do not provide "full service" as they say. Some men go there for the massage and "just the hj." That was my Hs case though there's nothing "just" about it. It's still a disgusting form of betrayal; it still involves a deceitful double life; it still involves stealing from the family funds. It's exploiting the women there and it's exploiting us.

But what they did cannot be undone. It really is about "now what." If they stop acting out completely, if they show true remorse, if, and IMO, what's most important, they work to understand themselves and to change into trustworthy, healthy, respecting partners can we go forward in life with them? They can't unvisit those places-they can devote themselves to radical honesty which well may be the foundation for any possibility of living decently. Hang in there, Sherly, continue to gather your support team together (you sound like you well may be a team leader generally), hang on to your sense of humor (the ladies at my SANON group are very funny), and know that you are going to be ok.

I feel better just with you all. I will read these resources and see if I can find a counselor from the resources here...working 10 1/2 hours today will help. I have learned I have to keep busy... my WS also feels he needs to do that too..

Hi Sheryl,

You have gotten some great advice from others so I will just emphasize two things.

First, please, PLEASE get him to take a polygraph. My fWH was a one night stand guy (not prostitues) and he trickle truthed me until I told him he was getting a poly. I could NEVER have even thought about reconciling with him without making sure I knew the whole truth. You can find out how many times he visited, what services he had there, how long it has been going on, etc..

Second, come join the groups on the I can Relate forum, Emotionless Infidelity and Sex Addicts. They are so helpful and kind there. It's a supportive bunch.

I am so sorry for your pain and shock. I'm a fairly new BS so I understand. Same age too with similar ages of children. These men are very sick and they don't understand what real love is. My fWH has a therapist, he goes to a pastor too and has an accountability partner. If your WH truly wants to get well he will do everything he can and throw himself into recovery. If he keeps lying and blaming....he's not a good candidate for it.

Hugs

How do you get a polygraph?

How are things between u and uour WS now? Like, To me my WS is repulsive 😫 ... i.e do u still kiss goodbye? Do u have a level of closeness? I am sure we will need LOTS of therapy . I dont know how to act and it makes me angry that he has changed that,changed everything.😞

Sherly Let me ditto Kaygem's invitation to join us in EI though SA might be appropriate too. They can easily overlap since SAs acting out form is often of the EI type.

I think your polygraph question is directed to Kaygem who recommended it; many here do though I did not go that route and not all of us do for various reasons. But you might get recommendations for such through an SANON or BAN group. There are some CSAT therapists who recommend monthly polls.

You ask how things are between us now--I took that as a general question and again, it's a personal matter. I was unable to even let my H hold my hand or kiss me on the lips for at least a year; now he can kiss me but I cannot kiss him. I have no desire to have normal, intimate contact and I don't. I do nothing I do not want to do with regard to him. I do try to be polite; I do try to be very honest and I do try to acknowledge good things I see him trying to do; better ways he is trying to act. Sometimes I even bless him when I hear him sneeze.

I feel more disgusted than hurt. I do not think about forgiveness or reconciliation--those words seem inappropriate. The meaning of reconciliation has to do with two warring, disputing sides reconciling their differences--we were not in conflict--I was not aware of anything wrong--he lead a double life. I was kept in the dark. There was and is no "dispute" no difference to reconcile.

Sherly I think it's great that you're feeling good enough to be able to work and I know that it's really helpful to have some distraction from the horrible thoughts and feelings--good that he can do something too--but do be careful not to go to far into that--discovery involves trauma and trauma can have more lasting and more harmful effect if the pain is buried, ignored. EI cheating is typically a form of escape--a very unhealthy, immature, perverse and destructive form of escape--getting away from the shame, the shock, the undesired and unhappy consequence of discovery can lead some of them to more escape since they are not good at coping. I don't mean more acting out, just mean that getting lost in work, letting work work as distraction from the issues, might not be the best thing to do but that might be an issue to discuss with your H's therapist.

it's still a shit sandwich, with different condiments.

Now that made me laugh! It is so true!!! Thanks sherlytemple for sharing your story and telling me to check out the other forums. :)

Hi hun, I'm so sorry you have to go thru this. I recently found out about my bf going to several amps, meeting up with Backpage escorts. Never knew these massage parlors existed until I noticed a 250 charge from when me and him were in NYC. He got a nuru massage at 2am, basically that's when I found out everything else. He was careless and idk how many he has encountered..but he ended up getting a STD not knowing until I pointed it out. Makes me sick that guys are into it esp when they have a woman at home.