SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This has happened before, but not to this level. We split up for 2 years after the last CW inappropriate friendship/affair but then reconciled, and have been together for 10 years, married for 4.5. Anyway, I told him to stop the friendship, and I thought he did. I foolishly was not careful enough. I have been trying to get home for years now, back to my friends and family and everything else, and WS has been dragging his heels, hard.

Zoe, here's the truth of the situation - whether or not you 'rugswept' the first affair is really immaterial. Unless this man is brainless and needs to wear a helmet out in public so he doesn't hurt himself or anyone else, then I'm going to assume he's reasonably intelligent enough to know the difference between RIGHT and WRONG. It's NOT rocket science.

There's only so much you can blame on 'rug-sweeping.' He SAW the pain he caused you the first time. He SAW how it broke your marriage apart as you were separated for 2 years. He saw EXACTLY how much damage he caused with his selfish actions and he saw how you struggled to reconcile with him and how hard you worked to heal.

And here he is again, shitting all over the gift of forgiveness and reconciliation you gave him.

If my husband feels that way about the OW, why is he choosing to stay with me and work on our marriage? How can I ever trust someone who lies to me so totally?

Why WOULD you trust him yet again? This is affair #2 (that you know of, anyway) so you can't believe a word out of his lying mouth. Ever.

There are a ton of reasons why these serial cheaters don't want a divorce and just about all of those reasons are to their benefit, not ours. I can't tell if you have kids but if you do, that's usually a big reason they stay - so their kids don't see them as deadbeats if they leave. Secondly, the financial 'hit' in splitting assets and trying to separate all your finances can be a daunting task - especially if it becomes acrimonious.

Third, after all the stories I've read over the years on boards like this, I've come to the conclusion that cheaters LIKE having a 'center' - a wife and family and a house with a picket fence which provides a "center" for him. Then, there's the secret double life he has with his OW(s) because he's selfish enough to think he deserves to have the best of BOTH worlds.

At YOUR expense, of course.

His idea of 'working on the marriage' just means being on his best behavior so you don't divorce him, and telling you everything you want to hear so it lulls you right back into another sense of false security like he did the last time you caught him. He'll placate and pacify you and do sweet little things for you and maybe he'll even cry some big crocodile tears for you, but he's completely remorseless and more so, he's still VERY much emotionally involved with the OW.

The dead LAST thing I'd do is invest in him again. Dead last.

Honestly? If you forgive him yet again, you'll likely have more D-Days in the future. But the most important question you need to ask yourself is, do I really want to invest in a liar and cheater a THIRD time?

You don't need his permission to go back home to your home country - especially since he kept you where you are due to HIS unbelievably disgusting selfish behavior. To me, that would be game over.

Good luck to you.

There is so much good advice here. It's so hard to hear and absorb that he does not deserve my love, grace and efforts. Part of me knows this is true, but part of me loves him still. It feels so sick. I guess for me the thing that feels really complicated and awful is that if we were in our home country, there would not be this HUGE stress on me to decide so quickly whether I leave him or not. There would be time to just "give it 3 months" of no contact and see how we feel. That is not an option here really, so everything feels like it's in a pressure cooker. Also because we are so isolated here in this foreign country, neither of us has friends or family to lean on. I feel like if our friends knew about this, they would say to him, honestly WTF are you doing?

I tried to sort of confront him yesterday when he came home from work, saying something like, "I feel so uncomfortable that you have private work avenues to communicate with her, and you also said that no matter what I think I have access to, there is always another way. You mentioned you could even write letters. Did you write letters (he said no while I know the answer is yes). I want you to write a NC letter to her. "

He cried and lost it a bit, as if I am putting so much pressure on him. Meanwhile, he was also processing the letter that his OW wrote and gave to him (he didn't tell me but I know that was also on his mind). From their messages I can see that she is not giving up, she is hanging on.

Part of me wants to do all of these conflicting things:

- ask him to quit his job no matter what financial distress it would cause and give our relationship a fair chance which I think I deserve

- tell him, look, I can see you are ambivalent about working on our marriage why don't you go away and do that and I am going to return to Canada to start divorce proceedings

- blindside him with a divorce agreement to get the most favourable financial settlement possible like the magnificent rage goddess I know I can be

- curl into a ball and cry/die

These days are so so so hard. I am trying to keep it together and I have moments of strength but moments where I feel completely out of control and hopeless. There is just so much pressure and stress surrounding this situation that puts me in an even worse spot.

Option 2 and 3 will give you the best results. Be strong. You deserve better.

Zoe,

I know exactly how you feel. I know that that's tough to accept, but it's true. You're doing just fine. Take a deep breath. For the first two months after D-Day I felt an unbelievable sense of urgency. Everything had to be figured out TODAY. It was like that every day. That's how you feel, but it's simply not true. You have all the time in the world to decide how you want to proceed. The important thing is that you have to keep making progress. Don't sit in uncertainty and be afraid to do ANYTHING. Take some time to decide on a course, but make sure that you're actually moving towards that goal each day. Your ultimate goal is to get out of infidelity. If that can be accomplished today, great. If it takes a month, so be it. Just don't let it take long enough that you start to accept this reality as a long-term option. NO MORE RUG SWEEPING!!!

Seriously, read up on the 180. It's your best friend at this point. It will allow you to take control of your life back. That's the first step. You can't really worry about the marriage until you've got yourself back under control. I made the mistake of trying to save the marriage before putting myself in the driver's seat. It failed miserably. Don't make that mistake. You have to be driving the bus. Your WH will take that thing straight off a cliff if you allow him to. I know that's hard to believe, but you have to accept the fact that he's incapable of making responsible decisions. If he could you wouldn't be here. You have to take control if you want any chance at all of changing course.

Good luck. We're all in your corner.

He is full of it. He is playing both sides STILL. He is clearly not even close to NC. Personally, I would require him to put more action behind his words to you like quitting his job. Right now he is not really making a choice.

You are worth so much more. The pain and hurt from this is brutal. I really feel he should be willing to cut ALL ties to her in order to save his M of that is what he wants.

I speak from a place of knowing how it felt for my H to have an A at work. It does not work well for them to stay. He had to leave. He was willing to. My H really started to wake up in Hell when he started to her the consequences for his actions in my case. He either left the job or had no W, house or family to come home to. He had to stay at his parents house. All of th sudden she didn’t look so hot anymore. If he had not chosen to leave then we didn’t have a chance anyway.

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 9:05 AM, February 8th (Thursday)]

You are worth more. This isn’t love. Love doesn’t hurt you this way.

Do you hurt your husband? Do you parade other men in front of your husband?

You are isolated without friends in Germany. Men like your husband operate from isolation. It makes it easier to keep you in hand.

It’s 4 months till June. Can you start the transfer process for your work now?

This man will not change. I can see it.

He’s still having an affair as long as he’s in contact with her. Do you want to get out of infidelity or do you want to rugsweep? If you want to get out of infidelity, you are going to have to stand up for yourself and take action! He’s behavior is not okay and he needs to feel the consequences of his actions.

- tell him, look, I can see you are ambivalent about working on our marriage why don't you go away and do that and I am going to return to Canada to start divorce proceedings

I think I'd go with some variation of this. Start making plans to return to Canada. Tell him that you are going there on whatever date you can work out quickly and it is up to him whether you go as a married person or not. Then just stick to it. Don't give him the time to keep going back and forth here. He's sitting on the fence. Knock him off!

It's clear that he is going to do nothing. He is hoping it will go away, that you will rugsweep, and that things can continue as before, in time.

Your best bet is shock and awe right away.

Any update from you? Are you ok? My heart really goes out to you having to read that correspondance.

Thank you all for your very supportive honest advice and concern. I have been thinking it over and talking with my family. Finally I Skyped with some good friends back home who know the whole history of me and WH. They say, I should pack up and go home where there are lots of people who love and support me. That living in purgatory is not what I deserve, and what he has done is cruel and intentional. You don't accidentally slip and fall in love with someone else. He made vows to me, I'm a loving and supportive person and in no way at all is this remotely justified.

The last couple of days WH seems to be trying. But, yeah, the things he said to her. I can't get them out of my mind. I can't put those specific words out of my mind and I fear they will replay there forever.

I have an IC appt on Monday. I might wait until then to talk it over what I should say and explore my feelings with her but I have been thinking about what to say. Some version of this.

"I don't believe you've been honest about how you ended things with her. I think you left the door open and she is waiting there. I asked you to write a NC letter and you just cried and said you needed a counselling appt. You felt so much grief after you told her it was over, and felt that she didn't let you explain yourself. As soon as you spoke to her, that grief was gone. I know what that means. It means that in your heart, it isn't over. I know you think you are still in love with her, and are ambivalent about continuing with our marriage. I shouldn't have to tell you what to do or ask you to make me feel safe at this point. You should be doing anything and everything to make me feel safe and show that you are remorseful. But you aren't. The way you are handling this shows me that you are still ambivalent and still think you can choose. It shows me that you don't regret what you did and how you've hurt me. While contact with her continues there is no way we can move forward. It would be better for me to return to Canada where I have support and can feel safe. You have to make your own choices."

I am working up the courage. Meanwhile I am exercising, getting back to work (I have my own business and it's been falling apart) and working on the 180. Also I am sometimes sobbing in the shower and forensically investigating his computer when he's at work but I will focus on the 180 and being positive. I will be okay. I deserve to be happy.

I want to recognize what a big step it was for you to even write something like that.

Maybe bring it to IC and discuss it.

You deserve what he isnt giving you right now. You are the prize. If he doesn’t see you as that then there is no chance for R.

If he follows you back to Canada Giving her up and seeing that you mean more than she does, then maybe there is a chance.

One step at a time, so good job.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I applaud you for wanting to work things out with your husband. You have put so much thought into what you should do next. Your version of what you want to say to your husband is perfect. You have to set some boundaries for your marriage.

I firmly believe that God can perform a miracle in your marriage, but it will take prayer, counseling and some time. It will also take BOTH of you working together to move forward. I pray that you will have the strength to do what you need to do to feel safe and secure. Thinking of you!

I think the best thing for you would be some distance t o clear your head, and get support from family and friends. I kept my husband's horrible secret for 3 years before telling anyone, and it nearly killed me. It is so nice to have distance and lived ones on your side. Big hugs. ❤❤❤

As I try to tell the many betrayed men who post here, the OM/OW can simply be ten a penny, they are a small part of the problem, the WS is always the biggest part.

Quite frankly OW's can be replaced. The sweet nothings they tell each other are mostly b*llsh*t anyway. The excitement of sneaking around and having sex with someone new and having them feed your ego is not however. Whether you move back to Canada or Timbuktu, your husband is comfortable with lying and cheating and will carry that with him.

You finding out wasn't terrifying enough to stop him. I would pack your stuff up, book tickets and simply ghost him, leaving screenshots of all the conversations they had and underlining the especially lovey dovey nonsense, he's telling her.

If he doesn't respect you now he will respect you when you leave his lying self and show him you won't put up with his nonsense and that he can have her.

Respect yourself because if you won't then how can he?

I would meet with an attorney and convey to your husband that you're contemplating divorce, just so he understand the stakes. Tell him he has destroyed the trust in the marriage and that may never return. He can't contact the other person at all, ever. That should be a deal breaker.

That being said, maybe that will shake things up enough for him to get serious about reconciling. But, I hate to say, he may too wrapped up emotionally with the OP to really think straight now.

My 2 cents.

Cheaters lie a lot. If they are in contact the affair will continue if it ever stopped.

Just because you know doesn't mean it'll end. If the other woman is married you should inform her husband.

Don't continue to be deceived and wallow in his infidelity.

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

I’m glad you are sorting through your feelings and options. I know it is so devastating and hard for him to put you in this situation. You didn’t choose it but you can respond. He does not control that part is the equation. I’m glad you have people in your life that love and support you. IMO the best chance you have at saving your M is to draw boundaries and enforce consequences that are the reality of his choices. I agree that if you finding out wasn’t enough to wake him up, that you need to get yourself out of abuse and infedelity. After that will determine is there is anything to salvage. My heart really goes out to you. It is hard enough to discover the A, ambivalence and remaining selfish in the face is your pain is even more cruel.

ZoeS, one way my therapist addressed this was “what would you do if a friend came to you with a problem like this? What would you tell them?”

My answer was “I would tell that friend to leave as fast as they can, because the WS is using them while they finish their current project.”

What would you tell a friend? What does your body tell you? Where do you feel your pain?