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I really do get what Pink was saying about my wife being attracted to this man’s intellect. I am a smart man in a lot of ways. I think I am good at what I do, and know the business very well. I am a pretty good guitar player. I have good people skills, and am very good at reading people and reading between the lines. But I am not very adept in the philosophy and literature department. I haven’t read a book since they made me in college. I don’t have strong political opinions, I think we’re all just along for the ride, and all I can do is work hard to try and do the best I can for my family. On issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc, I just kind of have a “live and let live” policy, and don’t really see what there is to debate about.

But this OM was well read. Liked to talk about philosophy, literature, etc. I’ve come to realize this stuff is very important to my wife. It’s one of the reasons I no longer think we are compatible. Obviously having an EA with this guy filled a void in her life, and it escalated from there. I can’t fill that void. My mind just doesn’t work that way. For example, yes, our country has a drug problem. All I can do is try to make sure my kids know to stay away from drugs... debate over.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 4:54 PM, May 26th (Saturday)]

Fenderguy, what I understand from your argument is that you are a business person with little time for deep philosophical debates. But that does not justify your wife’s affair. What matters is that your wife and you have similar values, i.e. agree on important ethical issues, find beauty, meaning, and comfort in the same things. If your wife longed for philosophical debates, she could have signed up for Master Course at one of many academic institutions offering such training programs. Pink’s opinion about obtaining sexual freedom through talking with a man about gay rights cheapens a woman’ value, in my opinion.

Intellect can be expressed in various forms, and you seem to express yours through taking care of your family instead of ruining other families by sleeping with multiple women. As for national drug addiction problem, by taking care of your loved ones, you are already contributing a great deal to making a world a better place. If your wife wishes to debate, then she should have convinced you to participate in that part of her life. She loves philisophy, but not philosophical enough not to give up on the father of her kids. Although you proclaim youself not to be a book worm, I highly recommend reading Voltaire’ s Candide. Your wife fits the character of Pangloss perfectly.

[This message edited by neinbetruge at 5:35 PM, May 26th (Saturday)]

Not only that, but my business partners would also potentially suffer! Can't have that!

See an attorney and change this situation. Restructure to protect the business, your partners, and yourself.

Sigh.

That's not what I meant people. I can have an intellectual conversation without ripping my clothes off.

I mean she liked the way he made her feel. And in turn she wanted to make him feel just as good (via sexual gratification). He made her feel like someone different, someone desirable, interesting,stumulating, so she felt that freedom to be that person during sex. I experienced It as well.

It really is ego kibbles. She fed off that and returned the favor. It has nothing to do with it you can hold a conversation on whether the president should hold a summit with N. Korea, if gay marriage should be legal or if gun control should be tighter.

What is worrisome is she can't get that high back and if she is mourning that high feeling still, that's where the problem comes in. That part of her didn't die but she is waiting for someone to bring it back to life again (like the OM did).

*ETA But I agree with others. Being miserable is no way to live. Your wife needs to know, and I would really be shocked if she thought you had a good marriage. Are you communicating the frustrations or just swallowing them? Divorce sucks but so does being miserable and wishing every day for a different outcome and not doing anything to change it. That is no way to live (ask me how I know)...

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:07 PM, May 26th (Saturday)]

There is always a way. You just have to seek it out.

I usually try to be diplomatic....

FUCK. THAT. NOISE.

She needs to take some damn responsibility for herself.

Want stimulation...join a book club, volunteer.

It truly pisses me off when people refuse to take responsibility for their own happiness and fulfillment on healthy ways.

Its not about sex...it's about her USING sex as a way to passive aggressively punish him for him not fulfilling her needs...needs that she is responsible for filling.

Fenderguy, I can relate a lot to what you are saying, my WH being you and your WW being me. You said:

Lost a bunch of weight and got in much better shape. Started taking the lead more as a parent, instead of a "Mom knows best" attitude. Devoted more time to work, as well as hobbies and friendships. Eventually I really started to like who I was becoming. But I kind of find it hard to mix who I have become with the kind of man I have to be to stay with her.

No longer can I be one of the "Happy Wife, Happy Life" guys.

Why? Why were you one way during the 180 and had to switch back? What do you think of the "happy wife, happy life" guys? What do you make of that philosophy?

He did convince me that I was too much of a people pleaser, and in my marriage a bit too BETA (not his words).

Ok, if he convinced you of this, why are you still trying to be "happy wife, happy life"? Why did you create a you and let him go again?

This is my H and I want him to be a person.

I tried very hard to be a good, supportive husband. I thought I was a good husband. I worked very hard at it. I loved her. I thought the world of her, just like everybody who knows her still does. And yet, I wasn't good enough. I tried to not treat her like my personal maid and cook. I really did try to bend over backwards to make her life easier, because I wanted to. I tried to let her know that I saw her as more than the mother of my children. I tried to let her know everyday how much I loved her, and how lucky the kids and I were to have her.

Here's a thought: that description seems far from being not enough, so possibly it's too much?

My reason for going back on the 180 was that I was starting to live like a single man, and I was not doing anything to help heal our relationship. That was before she started rugsweeping, when she seemed truly remorseful. Now I realize she just wanted to get things back to status quo.

I never really did subscribe to the happy wife, happy life thing. I was a good husband because I wanted to be. Because I loved her and that’s just how I roll. I actually don’t think it was too much. We’ve never been that couple that was up each other’s butts, and controlled each other’s lives. I always Gabe her space, and she Gave me space too. I don’t think it was TOO MUCH.

Pink, she talks all the time about how happy she is that we’ve worked it out, and how we’re in such a good place now. I think she partly thinks that if she says it enough times, it’ll come true. She always talks about how she realizes now what a great man I am, how I’m her everything, and how she can’t believe she almost threw that all away. I really think she would be happy if we never had sex again. But she knows I have needs, so she allows me to penetrate her occasionally. I don’t even want to do it if it’s going to be like that. But I go with it when she initiates, because that’s the path of least resistance most of the time. It’s not right, I know. I truly do think she thinks we are happy.

She had a breakdown recently, and I helped talk her through it. She talked about how much she loves me, great man, blah blah blah. I thought that maybe this is a turning point. Nah! Back to the same shit the next day.

Sometimes I think that I need to just suck it up and get on board with her. That this is just going to be my life. But I can’t just suck it up, it all just seems so unfair. She gets to move on and be happy, and I get to deal with this shit all alone. I know I need to communicate with her my feelings... but she can be very manipulative. She’ll have me apologizing to her by the end of the “discussion”. If I were to divorce her, she would make me the asshole in everyone’s eyes.

I am not saying that your wife has zero issues, but I am saying that you cannot control her--only you. As others pointed out, you were doing well with the 180 so go back to that. After all, you said you agreed with your IC that you "were a little too Beta." So stop, right?

Focus on yourself and not on her. If you are unhappy, then make yourself happy. You can't change or control a partner. You don't want to divorce, so the answer is simple: think less about her and more about you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:33 PM, May 26th (Saturday)]

Owning, that actually struck a chord with me. Thanks, really. To paraphrase Barney Stinson from HIMYM, I need to "be awesome" instead of being how I currently am.

This thread has made me very sad. Very sad.

I wish things could be different for you.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 12:04 AM, May 27th (Sunday)]

My husband was like this sexually before his affair. He had the almost zero interest in me sexually.

I would lay awake at night; trying to figure out what was wrong! Was he gay? What was wrong with me?

Maybe he just had a lower sex drive than me. So I accepted it. Never had an affair.

When he had sex with another woman. I unleashed. Never would I go back to a sex life like that. NEVER.

He didn’t communicate his needs and I didn’t communicate mine.

For my husband and I; we need to verbally communicate. We aren’t matched sexually. He can’t read minds and neither can I.

Please talk to your wife.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 12:09 AM, May 27th (Sunday)]

This is going to be controversial so take what you need and ignore the rest.

1. I would figure out what i wanted in the marriage and start to work on it anyway I could. I would not let the MC or WW dictate the terms of reconciliation. The MC is employed by you. Fire their ass if they are not fostering the help and healing you and your wife deserve. Your wife sucks at sex. You need better. See a sex therapist and get it. She needs to figure this out. Get some fantasy going. IDNK You got buff and manly you need to be getting with it. She needs to bust her barriers and get busy creating the life you and she deserve. Give her the problems in MC or outside and have her develop the plan to fix them. Make her do the work. She created this shit so have her own fixing it. Statements about the AP are irrelevant. If she needs ego kibbles feed her some. But, take back your marriage. You are not feeling enough love deposited to meet your emotional needs therefore you are settling. Do not do this. Have her step up her game to become the wife that you want. There is a reconciliation specialist that uses the analysis of love deposits or bank. Perhaps your account is overdrawn. Be selfish and get what you need to heal and have the marriage both of you deserve not just what she wants. Her priorities must be rearranged for reconciliation to work. Tell her and the MC you need help to heal faster. Put the burden on her and the MC or get a new MC. You are paying them. Be the man you want, infidelity rocks our world. We are changed. You want something more - get it.

2. Get your ducks in a row. Explore ways to get your financial assets arranged to maximize your benefit so that if the sex and other baggage from reconciliation force you to walk you do not lose your wealth because of her cheating. If your lawyer performs subpar at this, find one that doesn't. Check with investment counselors. Divest/invest assets in such a manner to benefit yourself and your children. The same with contracts, etc. This could be a long process. Do nothing illegal or immoral. Just prepare for the what if. The WS did not ask us when they chose to cheat and manipulate us so step back and take care of you and your family. It is a consequence they should face. If they screw up reconciliation then the BS has the right to walk. This detaching and protection will keep you occupied. Knowing you will be okay with or without her is nice. A whole new dynamic is opened up and your marriage is no longer lopsided with you feeling taken advantage of. Monetarily you and your children will be in a much better position. Her choice to cheat put the family at risk. Take the ability to be financially manipulated from her.

You are not liking how reconciliation is going then change it. Get the life you want and marriage you deserve.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 1:52 AM, May 27th (Sunday)]

I have been in a sexless marrige for about 10 years. This was as a result, among other things, of her EA, and me in depression for 19 yrs.(I think I covered this in my profile).

I have been working over seas for the last 5 months. Being away from her, and the scenarios has been great for my self esteem, and my feelings of again enjoying life.

She is visiting with me now. Our talks have been very encouraging, and in depth. We have discussed our intimacies, and she now wants to again enjoy a sexual relationship.

Separation has been the most contributing factor in our progress forward. I was only meant to be away 4 months, but have purposely kept extending my return. She is aware that I am happy away from her.

Admittedly our circumstancers differ in that my children are now adults, and have families of there own. And you may not be able to have total separation. Im pretty sure our separation has been a consequence that has helped us move forward.

The 180 is probably the only thing availible to you. It gives you time to think forward. Space to find joy. Consequences.. let her ask why, and then talk with her.

Like you have stated, she is basically unaware of the real state of your marriage. My wife was too until she started seeing real consequences.

Hope this helps.

You and your wife need to communicate with each other. You need to tell her how you feel, what your needs are and what bothers you about your marriage. You need to find out her needs and marriage problems. Nothing will ever change unless you talk to each other. As far as having conversations of intellect with her, that is easy. Ask her about something she is interested in. Art, literature, or what ever rouses her interest. The secret to a conversation about something you don't know anything about is simply asking questions and listening. You don't even have to read a book. You ask and let her talk and you ask questions. You said you are a good guitar player. When was the last time you sat and played her a song just for her. Two important things I learned during my long marriage. Listen when she talks. Show interest in what she has to say even if you're not interested. Women like to talk. I read where average man speaks about 7000 words a day and the average woman speaks about 33000. And above all, never ever stop courting your wife. Go on dates, bring her little gifts. I have probably been married longer than you have been alive and today I bought my wife a dozen white and red roses. Just because. The breakdown of a marriage can be caused by inattention and indifference. When this happens you should just go your separate ways. Instead of infidelity the WS should have just told their spouse what was wrong and either fixed it or divorce. If you are not willing to communicate and don't want to divorce then be prepared to continue living the way you are. I do wish you well.

Why do you need to do the 180 in reconciliation? I feel honest communication about Your needs is required and you need to take charge and drive the process.

I realize this thread has run its course, there’s really nothing more to say. I just want to thank you all, and know that your comments have not fallen on deaf ears. I absolutely MUST do something to get out of this rut. I am not living a full life right now. I am a shell of a man. I wake up every single day in a dark cloud. I treat my wife like a roommate because it’s too painful to treat her like my wife. My kids really deserve to have a father who isn’t walking around in a daze all day.

I want somebody who makes me feel happy. I want somebody that I can be affectionate with, and who I can allow to show me affection. I want somebody who wants to have sex with me ad much as I want to have sex with them, because it brings us closer. Not because it’s the next thing on her checklist.

I’ve got to have a serious talk with the WW. It’s not going to be a fun one, but she needs to know how I feel. I can’t live another day like this. Thank you all, you have made a difference for me.

In my own life, Fenderguy, I have found direct honesty (with previous thought and keeping calm emotionally) to be the most empowering, life-changing, confidence-building, depression-lifting learned skill of my life. With everyone close to me, family and friends--not just my WH--this directness and honesty and pure acceptance of who I am and how I feel broke my chains of sadness and despair.

Each time I pushed through fear and vulnerability and shared a truth, my spirit grew taller (quite the opposite of what you would expect).

Each time I drew a line, expressed a boundary, my personal pride ballooned larger.

It turns out that honestly accepting who we are, how we feel, and what we have a right to is the confidence builder we had been looking for all along. And it actually turns out that we needed to feel that we were worthy much more than we needed someone else to make us feel worthy.

You are on your way, Fenderguy.

Best wishes for strength and courage and the true belief that you are an amazing person who deserves more out of life.

((((Fenderguy))))

You said: "If I were to divorce her, she would make me the asshole in everyone’s eyes."

Why do you give a damn about what others think? Isn't your happiness more important?