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I was in my twenties when my dad was caught with his pants down. My mother never discussed it with me. I found out from gossip and my grandmother.

I would have loved for my mother to have been the one to tell me the truth. It’s more drama than I can fit on here. I was very different in that I didn’t want to be around my father at all after that for a long time.

My father is narristic. Perfect is never good enough for him. He has been a struggle my whole life. All girls want the love of their father. At least at some point in their life.

My mother was very bitter over my fathers behavior. She then found out she had stage four cancer and died. Helping to clean up the home and donate many of her belongings, I found letters she had written about the affair. Let me tell you, no one should have to go through this.

I would suggest that you do what your daughter asked and write down in your own words what you want her to know. She is in her twenties and if she can handle divorce, she can your truth and handle the whys. Certainly you want her to know. You are not protecting her by not telling her. Kids will love their parents good and bad.

I wish very much that my mother would have told me herself. I would suggest that you might want to have some counseling. It would most likely benefit both you and your family.

Grace, this is going to be long, so bare with me. I have a lot of feelings about this subject still, but if my experience helps you to understand in any way, I’m happy to share.

To answer some of your questions, while it took me 9 years to finally cut ties with him, there were many more reasons besides becoming a BS myself. Over the 9 years, he continually would throw jabs about my mom to me (almost like he was mad at her for for the choices he made). He tried to make her out to be the monster when in reality, it was him all along. For example, in my teen years, my mom and I were in a typical mother/daughter spat, he was drunk, inserted himself, I said something he didn’t like, and he broke my nose with a closed fist. He tried to place blame onto my mom for this. Over the years, I never really understood the animosity he held for my mom, and then his true colors showed when his relationship with his wife (the OW) started to deteriorate. He will never be happy, and will never truely own any faults he has. The straw that broke the camels back on my relationship with him was when he came to town to visit and spend time with my son. He spent the entire week drunk in bars. He would return to my house after bed time, and proceed to berate my mom to my son. My 5 year old looked at me with tears in his eyes, and asked why his pop pop didn’t want to spend time with him, and why did he have to be so mean to his Nana. That ah - ha moment was it. I was not going to allow him to have that kind of impact on my child. I saw the emotional abuse starting, and over my dead body would my father escalate to physical abuse of my son. He left the next day and we have not had contact since.

I absolutely maintained contact with him because I craved love from him. The only time I received any love and praise from him as a child was when I excelled in athletics. That came quite often as I was a natural born athlete, but there was always something missing. If I were to have an “off day”, I was met with extreme emotional, and sometimes physical abuse from him. I wanted to see if we could have a relationship outside of sports. I wanted the relationship I saw my friends have with their dads. I wanted so badly to be daddies little girl without performance based strings attached.

My relationship with my mom would go up and down as my relationship with my dad evolved. Was it frustrating at times, absolutely. My mom couldn’t understand why I would want to have a relationship with him after all he had put our family through. She expressed her feelings of hurt and betrayal over my relationship with him. My sister cut ties with him the day he left my mom , and she didn’t understand why I didn’t do the same. It was hard, so hard to balance the two separate relationships. The only reason I would feel anger towards my mom was because I felt she was determined to undermine the relationship I had always dreamed of having with my dad. Keep in mind, he was love bombing me, buying gifts, taking me on trips. He was present in my life for the first time with no strings, and she was trying to take that away from me.

Probably the saddest part of this, was I partially blamed her for the abuse we endured at his hands (why didn’t she protect us?). How was I to know that she took even worse after we had gone to bed. I blamed her for not leaving sooner.

My dad had completely rewritten the marriage history between him and my mom. She was demanding, expected too much out of him, pushed him past his limits, drove him to become an alcoholic, etc.. So I was being love bombed, and actually started to think this was reality. My mom was crazy. My dad finally deserves to be happy. Why can’t she just move on and be happy herself. This is her chance! WHY CANT WE ALL JUST BE HAPPY NOW??? I absolutely knew the truth of their marriage. My father was arrested for DUI at 5:30am taking me to hockey practice when I was 8. My mom was constantly fielding visits from DFCS. She was working herself, making sure our homework was done, taking us to extra curricular activities. Making sure we had well balanced meals. She did it all, on top of trying to deflect the abuse away from us and onto her. Meanwhile, my dad was playing his own sports, picking up women at bars, coming home drunk and wreaking havoc inside the home. HE was the reason, but his NPD doesn’t allow him to see it that way.

You say it’s easier for your daughters to be mad at you. That is absolutely true. My mother’s love for me is unconditional. I was terrified to be mad at my dad. I was scared he would drop me the same way he dropped my mom. I was scared he would hit me. I was scared he wouldn’t talk to me ever again.

My mom is my rock. She is strong. She is stoic. She is a survivor. She wears her heart on her sleeve. She is the best Nana to my son. I know, no matter what, if I fall, she will pick me up, no questions asked. Most of all, my mom is CONSISTENT. That is something my father never has been , and never will be. I have no doubt, you are the same way with your daughters.

It is definitely not an easy road to navigate. I would let your daughters talk when they want. Stay strong, and just be there like you always have been.

Sorry this got so long, but I just wanted to share a detailed perspective. I’m not sure if you xWH was abussive, but it certainly was a defining factor with my dad.

[This message edited by Puglife920 at 10:50 AM, September 15th (Saturday)]

Heart

I would have loved for my mother to have been the one to tell me the truth.

My youngest DD found out the same moment I did. She was driving when the text came through from the OW and saw/heard? my gasp and asked what it was. I told her. I thought it was a prank or something. It was too much to take in. My other DD, I actually don't recall if I told her or her sister did because it is a bit of a fog. So my 'problem' is that I want to keep telling them the truth. And it's confusing for them because his truth is opposite mine. YEt as a covert narcissist he is pretty smooth with the lies. Anyways, I don't have any control over that.

All girls want the love of their father

Interesting you mentioned this because yesterday I said this to my eldest DD.

Helping to clean up the home and donate many of her belongings, I found letters she had written about the affair. Let me tell you, no one should have to go through this.

How traumatic. I can't imagine. I too lost my mom to cancer and cleaning her house was, well, challenging. Can't imagine finding those letters on top of that.

I would suggest that you do what your daughter asked and write down in your own words what you want her to know. She is in her twenties and if she can handle divorce, she can your truth and handle the whys. Certainly you want her to know. You are not protecting her by not telling her. Kids will love their parents good and bad.

Yes, I want her to know. I have to make sure my need for wanting her to know isn't selfish (it makes me feel better). I feel like I have so much to get off my chest and so much I want my kids to know. I don't want to TMI them because that was a common complaint from both in the beginning so they distanced themselves from me. So over the past several months I hadn't talked much about anything regarding the divorce. I slowly opened that door again and it seems to just cause pain. I am getting IC.

Puglife

Thanks for the response. It helps.

he continually would throw jabs about my mom to me (almost like he was mad at her for for the choices he made). He tried to make her out to be the monster when in reality, it was him all along.

When my STBX was ousted, he was furious with ME! Which was just crazy. It made no sense. Instead of begging for forgiveness he was angry at me. I know that STBX jabs me but he does it in a very very covert way to the point that the girls say he doesn't speak badly of me. Ha! Sure he doesn't out and out say things, but he lies by omission and assumption. He is masterful at that. He did it to me for years and I believed him. So he again comes out like the sane one. The one who isn't bashing their mom. Meanwhile he is but they may not catch on to his ways because who wouldn't want their father's love? Even if it's love bombing.

My mom couldn’t understand why I would want to have a relationship with him after all he had put our family through. She expressed her feelings of hurt and betrayal over my relationship with him.

I too couldn't understand why either of my DD's would want to. It's hurtful and painful to me. However, I have said to them both that they can have any type of relationship with them. I respect that. In turn they will need to respect my non-relationship with him. That is where we are at. I don't express my feelings of the betrayal I feel because I can't control what they do and what they want. And I get it. My mom was a narc and to the day she died, I wanted a relationship with her. I would imagine that she had softened up in her later years. She had at the very end but it took her being on her death bed to soften up.

The only reason I would feel anger towards my mom was because I felt she was determined to undermine the relationship I had always dreamed of having with my dad. Keep in mind, he was love bombing me, buying gifts, taking me on trips. He was present in my life for the first time with no strings, and she was trying to take that away from me.

Wow...it's good to know what may await me. Sheesh! This is all so challenging. I know he buys my youngest DD stuff. He did from the get go. She said she was using him when he bought her things. She receives love via gifts..that's her love language. And he can provide lots of gifts but not what she will really need which is genuine and authentic love from her dad. That's never going to happen as he is incapable of loving others without strings. Everything is done for his purposes and his wants and needs.

Probably the saddest part of this, was I partially blamed her for the abuse we endured at his hands (why didn’t she protect us?). How was I to know that she took even worse after we had gone to bed. I blamed her for not leaving sooner.

My situation was different. He hit me once early on then I threatened to leave and take the kids. He didn't do it again. Instead his abuse became psychological and emotional. So my kids, before Dday felt they had a good childhood. They thought we had a good marriage. Now the marriage part is covered with a black brush for them. As it is for me too. I have told them to hang on to the good memories they have.

In terms of leaving, for me, I didn't believe in divorce and I just felt that I could make things work. If I tried harder, did better etc. In hindsight would I have left if I didn't have kids? Yip. I think I would have. But I don't know for sure. It was the old frog in boiling water idea. I just accepted things and was a very positive person. I really believed that love and encouragement can change someone. I was wrong. Very very wrong on that. I couldn't do the work for the STBX. He never got proper treatment for his sex and porn and sometimes work addiction. He would always say he's working it out between him and God. He did a bit of IC to appease me. Then after a few sessions he would make some excuse and quit. He was a quitter. A weak man. A child. Emotionally stunted. A liar. A cheat and a thief. You'd never know it to look at him. He was 'successful' at work, clean cut, All the trappings of what the world thinks of as successful. And he was and is a vile human being. I just hate him. I hate him for what he has done to my kids and my kids relationship with me. It used to be so flowy. Now it's just damn hard. I have to watch what I say, go to counselling to navigate everything. And he just gets up and goes to work and tells everyone our marriage wasn't intimate. Like that is an ok reason to cheat!

He has even convinced my girls that somehow adultery is ok!! I can tell by what they say. The oldest DD insinuated that there are 2 sides to the story. I said, no adultery is 100% wrong--it's a choice and there are no excuses. (or something like that) As for my youngest DD. I can tell she is spending time with him. I just know it because she glosses over things that should matter. She loses her values when she is with him for too long. I know that sounds weird but it's almost like he can convince her that even cheating is ok in some circumstances! I've really gone off on a tangent here. I needed to get all that out.

Thanks for the detailed perspective. It is helping me process what is going on.

GraceLove, you are so right, what a test this all is.

When one has been hurt so badly as we all have on this board, one of the things some of us want to do is punish the WS, especially when it ends up in divorce. We want them to feel the same hurt we have experienced and be punished for their behaviour and actions. I know I did. However at some point we need to move forward for our own sake and sanity. The truth is the XH has moved on and could care less about our suffering. And it is not easy, it can take a very long time to get 'unmarried'. We are each unique human beings with individual ways in which we cope and handle life's situations. What has kept me going forward is my desire to be a better mother and role model for my two daughters. It is one step at a time through the muck. You will get there, there is no magic solution unfortunately.

Be kind to yourself as you navigate through and if you have a good IC even better to get that extra support.

I just talked to my IC about this same thing this very week. I'm having a really hard time with my kids (40 & 43). Right after DDay, I probably said a bunch of bad stuff about him, I don't honestly remember. But after a few months, I notice both of them get edgy if I bring up anything from when we were a family, even something as innocuous as "Dad use to make the best scrambled eggs, remember?"

My daughter is in contact with him; I don't think a lot but they do talk and text a few times a month. I don't ask her anything about it or about him and she knows I won't because I told her I wouldn't.

But here's my problem now: he married the OW in April. I'd been checking the county marriage records every month or so and saw it a week after they married. Neither one of my kids has told me. Either XWH told them not to tell me or they're just afraid to tell me, afraid that I'll be hurt (which translates to them not having enough courage to do what's right, which is a HUGE disappointment to me as their mother).

I was at my daughter's new house and saw cards on each of the grandkids' dressers. They each got card and $20 from their Papa to celebrate the first day of school. Here's my dilemna with this one: the kids didn't show them to me and they both texted him to say thank you but never let on to me. Which leads me to believe that my daughter has told them not to mention Papa around me.

So I hear you. I hear you loud and clear. I am beyond devastated but I don't say anything because it's my burden, my pain, my dilemna.

On 9/11/2001, my (then) DH was 500 miles away with his mother attending his uncle's funeral (I stayed home to take care of fil and their dog plus our 4 dogs and 3 cats); my daughter was working out of state 600 miles away and my son lived 1200 miles away for his job. So there I was at home and my family was all very far away from me and it was a horrible day for me in terms of the mother hen wanting all her chicks under her wing. Well, on 9/11/2018, I was here, alone. Son is out of the country on another travel adventure, Daughter lives 1000 miles away now and XWH is married to someone else 1100 miles away. I realized I'm now a family of 1 and it drained my heart of whatever I had left.

Plus I had a crazy dream and in it, my kids went on a month long family reunion event at a lake with XWH and OW and her kids and grandkids and the real kicker? XWH had invited my Dad's widow who was indeed the wicked stepmother from Hell who abused my Dad and now that I realize it, gaslighted me for years. Anyway, the dream was heart-wrenching and counselor told me it was about my sense of betrayal and abandonment. And that it would be wise for me to detach from my kids for awhile. Be nice, etc. but don't be involve in their lives as much as I usually am. Let them have time to process their feelings of betrayal and abandonment and their conflicted feelings about hating their Dad and loving him at the same time.

I realize I didn't give you anything much to work with but I wanted to relay that part about the counselor and to also let you know that you aren't the only one struggling with these terrible agonizing feelings.

[This message edited by josiep at 10:46 PM, September 15th (Saturday)]

Faded rainbow: You know, I feel like my kids made me a better person because when they were growing up I was so much more aware of my actions. And so when you said...

What has kept me going forward is my desire to be a better mother and role model for my two daughters.

...it resonates and yet, there are days where I don't even care if I'm a good role model. I get disheartened and think...does it even matter anymore? They are all grown up. They can just take me or leave me as I am. I'm so tired of having to take the high road and be the role model. It's kind of funny because my adult DD's had probably never heard me swear, like EVER. And a few months ago my youngest DD just couldn't take it anymore and told me to just stop. I try not to do it as much but find it difficult as it really seems to release my anger. And sometimes, well, I really don't care.

One of the freeing things about being a mother to adult kids is they are old enough to see their parents as humans first, parents second. Maybe.

josiep

I notice both of them get edgy if I bring up anything from when we were a family, even something as innocuous as "Dad use to make the best scrambled eggs, remember?"

I notice my girls get not just edgy but they seem full on guilty. I'm wondering if there is a way to alleviate that guilt? Anyone out there with any suggestions would be good.

I'm guessing that maybe I talk to them about it. However, I feel a bit 'burned' after our last interaction. It takes me 1-2 days to recover if they share something that is unexpected or abusive that their dad does (even though they don't see it that way).

realized I'm now a family of 1 and it drained my heart of whatever I had left.

I get that. I had always envisioned myself as the matriarch of a large brood eventually...kids, son in laws, grandchildren. Family was sooooo important to me. And now I live alone! I never thought this would happen to me. On the bad days it is utterly brutal. Especially because I am quite sociable.

I have one daughter in Canada and one in Australia. I can't tell you how many times I have fully HATED!!!! STBX for splitting the family apart. And when I don't hate him, on those days or moments, I empower myself and say: I chose to follow him to another country. THat makes me feel better as it gives me my power back.

I've also started to plan my way around living alone. And I do this in those 'moments' or 'spaces' where I feel good again, or back to myself....What I have done is this: At the moment, I have a wonderful friend living with me while her house is being built. After that I have invited another friend to come stay with me. After that, my brother will hopefully visit. I intend that for the rest of my life, I will have friends and family come stay with me wherever I am. This fills my need for companionship and at the same time I get my space and breaks in between. How much better is that??!!! I say much better than living with a crazy sob. So even though I grieve what I thought I had, I also feel that I'm getting a second chance at life. Living life on my terms. Sure, this isn't easy. And would I like someone to help me with the practical day to day stuff? Maybe....and then I say to myself...but at what cost to ME? That is when I realize that I am exactly where I am meant to be right now. At least that is what I tell myself and it makes me feel much better.

[This message edited by GraceLove at 2:36 AM, September 16th (Sunday)]