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Tonight was our "regular" Friday night date. As in past weeks, we went to a coffee shop. I wasn't entirely sure why, but figured she just wanted to sit someplace fairly quiet and chat.

Well, we did. And by chat, I mean that my wife talked and I listened. Seems that she read an article I sent about a week ago that discussed why relationships fail after As. Part 1 talks about the failure starting with a lack of disclosure, when the WS won't tell the BS what really happened.

She started by talking about how she has only recently come to accept.that she isn't perfect.

No kidding. 😕 I've known that since we started dating, when I was 14. But it wasn't until almost 2 years after an A that she can come to that realization...smh...

But, that realization, the recognition that she has lived a very self-righteous life, is a fine place to get to. In theory, it's never too late as long as you're still breathing, right?

So, back to the article I had sent. Apparently, she read through and decided that she would come clean about as much detail as I was interested to hear. Why? Because failure to recover starts as a result of not being honest and transparent. Who knew?

So, tonight I learned that they worked out together on multiple occasions (new info, but something I figured that had happened). I learned that she told him about what she had been shopping for at Victoria's Secret (again, something suspected but just now confirmed). I learned that they expressed their desire for one another multiple times, lamented that they weren't ever alone to act upon it during the day (those pesky homeschooled kids, you know), and that they planned their future with one another (again, I knew it happened, it was just never confirmed before).

She also Just figured out (and by just, I mean in the last week) that he never cared about her at all. That he was only interested in covering his ass if/when I found out AND that all he actually cared about was getting in her pants. Almost two years later and she was just realizing what I have known all along. That cognitive dissonance is really something...

I get that she is making somewhat of an effort. She is attempting to do something, which is more than I got for almost 2 years. But this just adds a new layer of depth to the sadness.

She said that she didn't want to tell me all that she did tonight because I'm taking 3 of the kids to the amusement park in Denver tomorrow (their "prize" from the summer reading program). But she also didn't want to wait until next week because she is leaving for 10 days with #2 for a friend's surprise 16th birthday back in IL (with a few extra days to see family).

I get it. There's never a "good time" to talk about this crap. But the kicker in it all? She reminded me that at the beginning of December 2016, about 10 days before she kicked everything off, I came to her and flat out asked "Are you having an affair?" She denied it. She said that, looking back, that should have been the giant flag waving, calling her out of the place she was headed. But instead, she chose to ignore it. She didn't care about me, the kids, nothing but her own selfishness. So she just did what she wanted to do.

I'm not angry. I'm not bitter or resentful. I'm not full of self-righteousness. And I don't feel like shooting the AP.

But I am sad. Sad that this whole thing happened. Sad that my life that I once knew is gone. Sad that so many things, though changed for the better, had to have this catalyst.

Virtual beer is on me tonight.

🍻

The gift that keeps on giving.

Fist bump.

Sending a prayer your way. Sound like she is starting to understand. Though it might be too late.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 1:38 AM, October 20th (Saturday)]

(((Cap)))

It's taken her this long to talk about what happened. It's taken her this long to even consider that she's got some issues to work on. Imagine how long it will take her to start figuring out those issues.

Your WW is stretching out the bell curve, brother.

I understand the sadness. I think we all do. It's what remains after the storm has finally passed. A life like an coastal Atlantic town these days.

This, too, will pass, but it will take a lot longer. Even at 3.5 years out it can still well up for a while.

You know the drill by now. If she's willing to save what's left of your marriage, now's the time to talk it all out. Make sure she knows this. Trickle truth is torture. Let her know.

...about 10 days before she kicked everything off, I came to her and flat out asked "Are you having an affair?" She denied it. She said that, looking back, that should have been the giant flag waving, calling her out of the place she was headed.

About a month before she actually cheated, my wife told me that she'd been "tempted" to cheat. Months later I'd find out she went down to a hotel bar for a late night super and some man was hitting on her and she was tempted to invite him up to her room. When she told me about it, I didn't see a big huge red flag being waved around. I simply thought: "sure, why not? She's an attractive woman." I've been tempted. It just didn't occur to me that she had seriously considered it and I'd just given her a green light (in her screwed-up mind, anyway).

Is she starting to understand what she threw away?

But I am sad. Sad that this whole thing happened. Sad that my life that I once knew is gone. Sad that so many things, though changed for the better, had to have this catalyst

^ THIS. EXACTLY. I know just how you feel.

I have been following your story but never posted on your thread. Seems like your WW is starting to see the light. Hopefully she can use this to start her path to true remorse.

Are you still filing once the 90 days is up?

Thanks each of you for the comments. I know that the questions about the 90 days are there. We are just over half way through and I promised myself that I wouldn't make any decisions until closer to the end. I will have a session with the MC (solo) and will talk with a couple of guys IRL as well when the day gets closer. No final answers on that yet, Regis.

Unhinged, how many times do you think that giant red flags were waved, whether towards us (without us putting 2 & 2 together) or by us that our WS blatantly ignored? If there were ever a study conducted, I'll bet that it's a mid 90% number.

She did reference all that she threw away, both from the relationship and from the time she has spent not doing any work. She knows and seems genuinely pained as a result. What she does with that...who knows what the long term holds...

[This message edited by CaptainRogers at 6:49 AM, October 20th (Saturday)]

I hope it’s a little solace that at least you know you were right, for the things she admitted to.

However I know it may be too little too late. She still hasn’t admitted much to the physical part right? She says just a kiss. I can’t remember if you believe there was more.

So would you share with us anything that you told her back?

If I remember the biggest sticking point is she doesn’t think about things that may trigger you, and try to help you through them. Has that changed at all?

And she hadn’t proactively try to talk about the A and try to feel the pain she cause you, her supposed loved one. Do you see last night as her attempt to do any of that?

I guess it’s better than the approach she had taken in the past. There’s something to that. It’s just that it should have happened 2 years ago and I sense that’s rightfully still a dealbreaker.

Have fun with the kids. You deserve it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:48 AM, October 20th (Saturday)]

Every time she gets to the physical part, her story remains the same. She kisses him, he kisses her, she shuts it down. Every time. Somewhere the "conscience" kicks in right as the physical part starts.

It still gets minimized ("just" or "only" or "It wasn't like in a movie.") each time she brings it up. And when she said 2 weeks ago that she wouldn't have a problem with me kissing someone else, well, that told me that she isn't ready to deal with the physical intimacy part at this point.

I do see last night as her attempt to be proactive. This morning was more of the same. She came out of the bedroom and asked me how I was doing. I told her that I was still sad & she asked if there was anything she could do to help.

So, when I step back and merely assess the situation without emotion, I can see that she is making an effort on several fronts.

As to any response to both what was said last night or even today, there was been very little. I told her last night that I appreciated her willingness to be open and honest because she hadn't been that way previously. I told her that, whether she understands or not, she shared a great deal. She asked me what I meant and I told her that my 5% was probably above 60% at this point. She didn't understand how I thought I had more information now than before, so I explained how saying "I had an A. We met X times. We kissed." was just a big box. I had no idea what was in it. Yeah, the box is still there, but with the details, I know more about what is in it. It's the difference between saying "I bought you a present, you have to enjoy it but you can't ever open it." and saying "I bought you a present. It rhymes with 'Bolt 45' and I also bought time at the range." In both instances, the present exists. But in one, the giver hides what it is and just says "trust me, you will like it, now tell me how thankful you are to receive it" and in the other, I get to decide whether or not I like it and am grateful. Its about who gets to decide on the emotion...the giver or the receiver.

I think she actually understood that one.

[This message edited by CaptainRogers at 9:13 AM, October 20th (Saturday)]

Just to say it explicitly - the fact that she may be healing herself doesn't have to influence your decision. I don't know whether you should should D or R or extend your deadline; I do know it's your decision, and you can hold your head up no matter what you decide.

Is this sadness new? Have you not been sad all along, since d-day 1?

I know that her healing doesn't have to be taken into account at all. That's my purpose of making sure I have a number of conversations, but also making sure they are closer to the 90 day mark.

The sadness has come and gone throughout, sisoon. I was just feeling the deep, grieving type last night. Still have it again today. Not the debilitating kind of "I'm so overwhelmed I can't do anything" sadness, but the kind that comes with the grief of a loved one's passing.

Ostensibly, that's because I am really allowing myself to grieve all that was lost, and last night just served as that reminder.

I've kept myself quite busy the last several weeks, not allowing those down times to overwhelm me. But, after the further details yesterday evening, there is no holding the sadness & grief at bay today. Maybe a good coaster loop or 3 will take my mind off it. I hate heights, but my kids love coasters...so I sit in the front seat because that gets me away from the top sooner. 😂

[This message edited by CaptainRogers at 9:58 AM, October 20th (Saturday)]

I'm not angry. I'm not bitter or resentful. I'm not full of self-righteousness. And I don't feel like shooting the AP.

But I am sad. Sad that this whole thing happened. Sad that my life that I once knew is gone. Sad that so many things, though changed for the better, had to have this catalyst.

Sounds like the grieving process.

I was just feeling the deep, grieving type last night. Still have it again today. Not the debilitating kind of "I'm so overwhelmed I can't do anything" sadness, but the kind that comes with the grief of a loved one's passing.

Ostensibly, that's because I am really allowing myself to grieve all that was lost, and last night just served as that reminder.

I've kept myself quite busy the last several weeks, not allowing those down times to overwhelm me. But, after the further details yesterday evening, there is no holding the sadness & grief at bay today.

Yep, I think you are right. You are in it.

The sadness instead of anger seems to be because you are much further in healing and not fighting the acceptance. You also have some genuine cooperation and reality from her, and that reduces anger. But the truths she shared hurt. Of course they hurt.

I used to be afraid of sadness because part of depression is knowing that the sadness is your shadow--always following you. That is scary, so you run. Once I began unpacking my FOO and building my strength, I did not fear the onset of depression and knew that my sadness was a part of living life, a part of the journey of being human. There are very sad times.

But I also know that the sadness must be processed. You will think on this new stuff she revealed a lot, CaptainRogers, and you'll rethink a lot of the old stuff to make it fit. And you'll feel pretty down. You'll do this until you can accept what happened without sadness or until you see a different path out of sadness (if you determine you will not be able to reframe what she has done differently). The sadness is you protecting you, and it's a necessary time. Her behavior will mean a lot during this time, and her attitude this morning was a good sign. I hope she continues to care about you and the hurt you are experiencing.

Don't try to not feel sad. Just be. Take it one hour at a time. The sadness will lift when you've made peace and decisions inside yourself. Respect your sadness and be extra kind to you, telling yourself nice things and giving yourself inner high fives and hugs. Take time to appreciate how strong and capable you are. Best wishes during this time.

...how many times do you think that giant red flags were waved, whether towards us (without us putting 2 & 2 together) or by us that our WS blatantly ignored? If there were ever a study conducted, I'll bet that it's a mid 90% number.

That was the only red flag I didn't see. It just didn't register. I never would have believed...

I'd imagine that most BS missed a few (or more) red flags. We all kick ourselves for having missed them, too, which is rather silly, if you ask me. No one wants to believe that their spouse has been--or is being--unfaithful.

As for WS missing their own red flags... well, that's rather obvious isn't it? I don't know if they just ignore them, compartmentalize, or don't even care. It's all a part of the 'fog,' which is a polite way of saying delusion. Affairs are lies, in case you haven't noticed. They are lies, built upon lies and founded upon even more lies. Whatever nonsensical fantasy your WW built up in her head most likely doesn't even come close to reality.

So, a few weeks pass after that "tempted" comment and my FWW tried very hard to reach out one last time but by that point our marriage was already hanging on by a thread. In fact, she'd been contemplating a separation for months. It wasn't until she was out-of-town, at a trade-show, and I didn't hear from her for about two days, that the "tempted" comment started to register. By the time she returned, that comment was now a five-alarm siren. A few days later, I couldn't ignore it any longer.

It took me over a year, I think, to finally stop feeling angry over that missed red flag. The rest of them I couldn't (and didn't) ignore.

Today, looking back, I can't fault myself for having missed that red flag. Take a look at history and you'll find more than a few men and women who missed (or ignored) some pretty huge red flags. Humans believe what they want to believe.

Long day today (6 hours at the amusement park). I hate heights, but have always loved coasters & rides. Always sat in the front car because I knew that I could see when we were headed down and could get there first 😄.

Today was different. Both with the pall of everything from last night still over me and the almost 2 years of adrenal fatigue, there was no joy, no adrenaline rush doing twists and loops. Heck, I couldn't even get off the Tilt a Whirl fast enough.

As...the gift that keeps on giving...

[

[This message edited by kaygem at 9:46 PM, November 4th (Sunday)]

Crazy, isn't it? That in the span of 10 days a person can go from married with 6 kids at home to figuring out how to tell me that she is filing for a divorce & won't contest anything so it can be resolved in 30 days?

On Sunday, December 31, 2016, she sat in a parking lot at Vitamin Shoppe and he coached her on what to do. Monday night, she "promised" she would tell me on Tuesday. She "chickened out". He wouldn't stop calling/texting to find out if she had done it. They met up Wednesday night and she told him she didn't want to. He got pissed. She said she would do it anyway & left. She didn't respond to his calls/texts until Thursday night when I was gone. That's the call I walked in on.

Talk about shattering a world...

Just as we were approaching the three-years-post-d-day mark my wife finally “woke.” A series of things over the summer seemed to have helped her step back and see the totality of her affair. I began to get more hugs, more conversation, more attention. Then the defensiveness began to wane, then disappeared entirely. Then she began to initiate conversations about the A. Reflective apologies began to flow. She now regularly remarks about how stupid she had been, and how glad she is to have been given another chance. We have crested the R hill.

But I still feel sadness at times. All that wasted time. All that breach of trust. All that betrayal.

But we are going to be okay. In this last year we have bought season tickets to the symphony, and have logged half-a-dozens different concerts. We have regular date nights. She is showing herself more trustworthy with passing time. I can speak to my hurts, how horrible the affair was, and there is no defensiveness anymore. It has finally been replaced with remorse. She knows she nearly lost everything.

And yet there is that sadnesss that comes when you have known all that was needed were open eyes, heart, and honesty. Why they can’t be forthcoming sooner is beyond me. The scarring will likely never fully heal or disappear. It is as if they had to grind us down before giving in.

(((CaptainRogers))) It is my hope your wife will finally shed those stubborn veils of her deception and delusion and see through your eyes.

[This message edited by OneInTheSame at 5:16 AM, October 21st (Sunday)]

OITS, I have been wondering how things had been for you two. It is such a wonderful thing to hear about turning that corner for her. I hope that she continues that forward journey well.

My wife did tell me that she finally figured out that she isn't perfect. Like, last week figured it out. Seriously. 45 years old and came to the realization LAST WEEK that she isn't perfect. And all I could think of was "What the hell is going on in your head that you can have an A, lie about it fully for 15 months, co tinue with lies of omission for another 6 months after that, AND STILL BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE PERFECT!?!"

Of course, I didn't say that...