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My suggestion would be to change your message somewhat. Instead of saying "I'm done", you should say: "I will not share you with another man."

I did say this, in almost those words exactly. What I meant by telling her I am done is allowing contact. It is either NC or we are headed for a divorce.

I reiterated this last night. In fact, I said about the only thing I regret so far is allowing contact after the meeting with the counselor. I still can't believe that counselor suggested that, and I listened.

I still can't believe that counselor suggested that, and I listened.

I can believe it. There are some counselors out there who simply don't know what the fuck they're doing. Don't be too hard on yourself, brother. You're not the first BS to listen to an incompetent therapist and you won't be last.

Stay vigilant. WSs will take affairs further underground. It happens. If she truly wants to save your marriage she'll agree to total transparency with everything. No more secrets. Make sure you have access and passwords to everything, including her phone, computers, bank accounts, email, social media and so forth. Shortly after d-day, my FWW installed a tracking app on her phone that allowed me to see where she (or at least the phone) was at all times, copies of all incoming and out-going phone calls and text messages, etc.

Is the OM married?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 3:56 PM, January 24th (Thursday)]

Whattheysaidwhattheysaid....to infinity my friend.

The hardest thing about intercepting a cheater is that you are essentially doing an one-person intervention with someone who has become addicted to their own self-reflection in another human being.

And !DAMN! it is hard.

Right now, you need to take every ounce of energy you feel in your pain, anger, hurt, confusion and allign it into clarity and boundaries.

Let go of any blame with yourself if you didn't "do it right" so far...even doing "it right" can go south because we are all so imperfect.

You might have said every perfect word, and had a counselor that gave all the right advice and it all might be just like it is right now for two reasons:

You can't control her. You can't control him. YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOU.

If she does the work and walks the walk, you will still have ups and downs in the years ahead. I still say the ups have been worth it for me. I would have always wanted to know if we could make it, and if I had left without those answers they would have bothered me.

If that is you, then please listen:

She wants to stay in, then it becomes about healing you, healing the marriage and healing herself all in good ways. NOTHING ELSE. Those things have to be her priorities and yours.

That is impossible with the OP having any access to her, or her to him.

So you settle for NO less.

If she is manipulating you away from healthy boundaries, you need to get space.

An intervention is impossible if you get pulled back into appeasing her.

You can do this.

If she is sitting on the fence, then you go walk the path by yourself. Don't you get stuck on the fence with her and her self medicating messed up affair.

Any continued contact after she has said it is done IS a continued affair. Period.

I know I'm probably still doing the wrong thing, but she does know I'm prepared for a divorce now.

No, I think you are doing the right thing now.

I also think you need to have a plan when she breaks NC, and I just have a feeling she will.

I would expect her to have one last "goodbye fuck" or as on another post, she will want to end it in person, (same thing).

Turn on GPS tracking next time you have her phone.

Don't be surprised if this gets worse before it gets better. HOLD THE HARD LINE! Anything else shows weakness and you're back to square one.

Good luck, bro!

Did you hear, with your own ears, your MC say wait until summer? It sounds like the type of bullshit a wayward would say a MC would say to keep the affair going. If you didn’t hear it directly, ask your MC. If your MC did say it, fire that quack on the spot.

Duplicate post.

[This message edited by Gunnut at 9:17 AM, January 25th (Friday)]

If you didn’t hear it directly, ask your MC.

Good point, Gunnut! That's why this group is good, collectively we find all the angles. I hadn't;t caught that possibility before.

Did you hear, with your own ears, your MC say wait until summer?

I asked her if I could impose a deadline on her "thinking about it" she said flat out said no and suggested summer. She later backtracked a little saying it doesn't have to be until summer.

I have been contemplating this one for a bit.

I really don't think I would be 5 years out in reconciliation (which is not easy at this point, but at least I have a habit of established boundaries in my arsenal) would have been possible if I hadn't established required NC right off the bat for me to stay.

I read and re-read the MC responses. A little credit for the back pedal, but I really can't see how the marriage can make it if your spouse is still being given this much control.

Don't get me wrong, there is some logic to trying to get them a bit out of the fog so they don't turn everything upside down (and you have small children...mine were older). Then laying it out clearly.

But this is too long. By now it is time to YANK her out of the fog.

Maybe I have missed it, but do YOU have an IC for yourself.

Here is why. When a person cheats, they are secretly harming you. Covertly. It is like a cancer growing in your marriage, and DDay is the MRI. The cancer is your wife's brain in that fog.

But she is human. So where is the compassion and consideration for the pain she is creating. She is on a power feed that blinds her to it.

She is not just addicted to the affair (Which is really just a false reflection of what she wants to see in herself.) BUT she is also addicted to the pattern of the adrenaline thrill of not being caught.

She has been secretly in control of your future to your detriment.

And letting her decide NC or not, for as long as she wants is handing that powerful magic wand to her.

Her fog is a cancer, and the "on the fence" is feeding that cancer. It likely will only grow.

It is time for chemo, radiation and surgery.

Your marriage may or may not make it. But leaving this power in her hands almost guarantees failure and it is destroying you as it goes.

My concern is the MC. There are a weird few out there, who think that affairs can spice up the marriage. I am really hoping this one is not in that school of thought.

Please get an IC to help you to start learning to take care of your needs. No one has been for a very long time. You have been doing marriage alone, without an answers about why nothing you tried was ever working.

You don't have much left.

Mr. Uxor said two things to me back in his affair fog just after DDay:

"I don't want to compromise, it means I never get my way." my reply was "Therefor, you are the one choosing misery in our marriage."

"Have you always been so dissatisfied with me?" My reply, "How could I? It is impossible to have a valid feeling, thought or reaction to lies and a person who isn't real. I was expected to be thrilled with the fake you, and apparently I still am."

The cheater has no right to keep exerting power over you, including holding you hostage with a timeline.

Your choices were stolen from you by lies. You need to own your future and take them back.

You have a right to rebuild yourself.

If she wants to rebuild with you in healthy ways, that is up to her.

BUT YOU need to take care of YOU sooner than later.

So she said she'd go NC this week.

Do you think she has?

Is she resentful?

Has she seen that quack of a counselor again, or have you also nixed that as toxic and a no-go zone?

If she means it about NC - she will give you access to everything completely. Even plan and design reassurances for you.

Expect her to work at transparency as proof. Humans bond to what they work hardest at. She needs to bond to transparency for you in true NC.

So she said she'd go NC this week.

Do you think she has?

Is she resentful?

Has she seen that quack of a counselor again, or have you also nixed that as toxic and a no-go zone?

Yes, she has gone NC. I think she has held it.

She is resentful as hell.

She saw the quack.

Do you think you might want to up your game as far as what you're willing to put up with?

I wouldn't try engaging with someone who is resentful that they have to give up their boyfriend when they're MARRIED. I'm not saying leave or kick her out - yet - but the 180 may be your friend.

AND there cannot be room for that quack in your marriage either. She's just a wayward enabler. Basically she's wanting to give your wife a huge amount of time for the affair to end it's course, or your WW to decide to leave. That's so not cool.

This must hurt like hell, because what your WW is doing is emotional abuse. Please don't allow it. Good on you for putting your foot down on NC, but that is just the first piece of the puzzle. The rest is her actually realizing she's completely effing broken for having a boyfriend while married - and then committing fix that brokenness.

Not an easy road. Quite impossible if the Wayward has zero remorse.

“ She is as resentful as Hell”

This resentment shows her mindset. In order to R she must be all in . She will have to do most of the heavy lifting if there is any chance at R and even then there is no guarantee. What your wife fails to see is the damage that she has caused by cheating. Right now your wife is not remorseful. I think seeing a lawyer is the right thing to do . It will at least let you know your rights.

Do you know anything of the OM? If he is married I would recommend telling his wife.

Did she send a no contact letter or email that you saw or did she just tell you she went no contact?

Re: her resentment. She is choosing this, so what is there to be resentful of? She had a choice to make. She chose to repair the marriage. So if she has resentment - she look in the mirror, it was her choice after all.

asked her if I could impose a deadline on her "thinking about it" she said flat out said no and suggested summer. She later backtracked a little saying it doesn't have to be until summer

It seems like you are the one sitting on the fence.

Asking if you could impose a deadline? She may have put you where you're at but you are the one keeping yourself there.

Start digging. At this point you don't know anything except what you're being told. Cheaters lie a lot.

Your MC is a typical rugsweeper. Quit wasting your time and money. Fire her.

Find out who the OM is and inform his wife if he's married.

[This message edited by Marz at 12:08 PM, January 26th (Saturday)]

You say your wife is resentful because you do not condone her being in contact with her OM. She is cake eating and is resentful that will no longer be her Plan B.

You were suppose to be fine with her going out with OM until she decided which one of you she wanted most. Bullshit!

Her attitude shows that she is not ready for R and may never be.

She may decide that the safety and support of Plan B (you) is good for now. But she does not see or does not want to see hew her affair has destroyed you, the family, and the marriage. Until understand this, she is not R material.

And why would you want a cheating wife who cannot decide who she wants to be with? What have you got if she returns to you? A cheater who will most likely do it again only the next time she will know how to hide it better.

Do you want to spend the rest of your life waiting for the next affair? Playing detective?

She does not love you - it is that simple. She has no care how her affair has affected you. Like most cheaters, it is all about her.

Take the strong path. Safe your self respect.

Sorry you are here.

Or she has taken the affair under ground. Waywards are sneaky, and if they want to keep contact they will keep contact.

She is still seeing the quack who said she didn't have to go NC. She will rationalize that means she can do it because he is a "professional" and therefore his opinion is better than yours.

So how does a wayward take the affair underground?

Burner phone, or an app on her phone that gives her a different number that she can use to call and text. Once the application is used, she can delete it and then reinstall it.

Applications on the phone that allow texting and phone calls. There are some disguised ones out there such as a calculator app that with a code enters a texting service.

There are a myriad of different chat apps, and messaging apps that appear on weekly and monthly basis.

go to CNN on the web and search the words

Apps you've never heard of that your teen is already using.

This will give you a list of about 15 of them. I am in IT and I was lucky to know like 2 of them.

ETA: Game apps like word with friends and many others have chat functions. If she has an iPhone then her messages may be going through apple's iMessage servers so you won't see the number on your cell phone bill, if AP has an iPhone. Google's chat apps use data vs SMS too if they use google messages rather than the SMS program on the phone then that will not cause the phone to show up on the phone bill as a text.

I hate to be a wet blanket in all of this but until a wayward can pull their heads out of their asses they are still the same selfish and self-centered person they were. I know this because I was the wayward in my marriage.

[This message edited by sorrowfulmate at 9:10 PM, January 26th, 2019 (Saturday)]

UPDATE

I know she has ended it with him. I saw some texts with her sister who knew (but didn't know she was still seeing him). I don't think she would lie to her. She has given me access to her phones (has a work phone she was primarily using that I didn't have access to previously), and shared her GPS. She is very smart, so I know if she wanted to contact him or see him she could do so and leave very little of a trail...so I can't rely on this for assurances. I will have to watch her actions.

Right now it doesn't look good.

She says she doesn't know if she wants to try with me, but doesn't want to leave... I know huge red flag and I should be in a lawyers office on Monday. I might.

I am going to the 180 for another week or two and if I don't see any remorse, then yes it's splitsville. I think I just need to let her get out of the fog. Hopefully ending it with him will help, if not I know what I need to do.