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I told her that I would be using a data recovery program on her phone. She said no problem, I am welcome to do it as there is nothing to hide since dday1. She said if that will help clear the air then that is what I should do.

I am undecided as to whether or not to do so as it will also likely recover the messages between her and EAP and I don't want to relive that.

Do it.

My WH said the same thing and was still lying through his teeth. I finally got around to running Dr. Fone on two of his old phones and found out about the PA with his ExGF, who honestly wasn't even on my radar. I had NO idea he was messaging her for YEARS behind my back, which eventually led to sexting and then to the PA.

Be prepared. Dr. Fone will not give you every single message, and some of it will come through garbled. That being said, it gave me enough to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they sexted and hooked up.

I'm now considering a polygraph because I still don't believe I know everything.

So how can you tell if someone is regretful or remorseful? HUGE difference.

Regret statements usually sound like this:

I’m sorry that you took it like that.

I’m not making excuses, but you do that too.

I shouldn’t have done that. I don’t want to make you mad.

Why can’t you let it go? It’s in the past.

You know I didn’t mean that.

Please forgive me. (Asking for forgiveness is not the same as an apology.)

Remorse statements lead to a true apology, including concern for your feelings, and responsibility for their actions:

I’m sorry that I hurt you. What can I do to help you?

I see the pain this is causing you.

I should not have said/done_________________. (stated specifically)

You have a right to be angry.

I was wrong.

I understand that it could take you awhile to get over being hurt.

How can I help you feel better?

Not only are the words different, the emotional concern in remorse is deeply felt and conveyed with a focus on making amends. Regret often seems flat, emotionless, and is more focused on moving on and getting the “punishment” over with.

Listen to the words and tune in to your feelings when the WS apologizes. Is it heartfelt? Do you feel heard and most of all do you feel their love and concern? Don’t discount your response. If it doesn’t feel truly better, then it is only regret, not remorse.

She is not a child, she knew after DDay 1 that texting any OM was wrong. This is not a difficult concept.

She regrets getting caught, you have to truly watch and assess if she is remorseful for risking everything.

Eyes wide open and good luck to you.

I think what is eating me is how she would not understand that her messaging this guy, or any man who I do not know is completely inappropriate. I just don't get it.

This was kind of the point I was trying to make above.

Even if this was never discussed prior to DDay 1, it should have been clear to her that after her affair any behavior like this is completely unacceptable in any way. Hence my illustration... NOW she knows not to contact men this way behind your back. On DDay 3 she will finally realize NOW that she shouldn't be checking out their Facebook profiles. On DDay 4 she will finally realize that NOW she shouldn't be driving by their houses.

It's not that you don't get it, it's that she doesn't get it. She needs to take ownership of this. Her claiming that this is innocent and not knowing it's a problem holds zero water. She knows, that's why she deleted messages. Even if it was "innocent", she knew you wouldn't approve, she wanted to keep doing it (which by the way is all about male attention) and she chose to hide it.

Ignorance is no longer an excuse she can hide behind!

This is what happens when there are no REAL consequences for cheating. Now its too lat!. She took you for a fool twice... Knowingly risked losing you and kids for the affair. I guess that how much you all are worth to her... Sorry but this boat has sailed and you have been swimming behind ever since. Time to take your life in your hands and start afresh.

1faith, ww has literally said, almost word for word everything in the remorse list that you posted.

Yes she regrets getting caught. I have made it clear that I know this would have continued and escalated.

After the dday 2 fiasco and subsequent attempt to explain it, she knew I wasn't having it even if it was the truth. Today there was a lot of conversation including honest discussion of D. This will be an important couple of days.

Today there was a lot of conversation including honest discussion of D.

Could you elaborate a bit more about this ?

Hey Buster. Sure. It started after I told her that any communication that any man she has ever dated is unacceptable and inappropriate. I did explain that while I do not WANT a divorce, there will not be another chance given. I asked if she wanted a divorce because rather than continue to do things behind my back she could just do whatever she wants and not worry about it. She got extremely upset and said no that she was sorry that she cheated.

She then said that every day she just sits and waits for me to tell her I'm leaving . She fully expected it dday2. I basically told her that I thought she was just going to continue to do things to push me toward d in an effort to save face . She insists that it is not the case.

I pushed further and told her that she needn't worry if we D because I wouldn't put her out on the street because of the kids and she could stay in the house (I hate the house) . She said no and went on that she really wants do do whatever will help me heal (her words) and does not want our marriage to end. She apologized profusely for hurting me.

She then threw something in a little unexpected. She said how sorry she was and said that she wished she could go back to "before all this". I asked specifically when and she said "before I was so stupid and cheated".

As hard as this is right now, that little sentence was kind of a big deal because that was when she was feeling "ignored" and made me wonder what path we'd be on if she hadn't had EA. She would never have told me of her fet, and would have continued to hide it. Would it have been a matter of time before she asked for D?

Questions I guess that will come up in counseling.

(Edited for a gagillion typos)

[This message edited by Happenedtome2 at 10:37 PM, February 1st (Friday)]

In thirty years, I do not believe my exhole ever acknowledged being in the wrong without a huge argument about it first.

If she is acknowledging that SHE screwed up, then there may be a chance for you both.

Sending good thoughts your way.

I will say this, having all of this a-hole's info now (including his and his parents' address and phone number, his work information and work address) it is SOOOO hard not to blow the guy's cover.... Just out him to his job, his family (no spouse)his friends....put a billboard up in his neighborhood....

I know exactly what you mean. The slut that spent years pretending to be my friend while she was banging my husband and working to destroy my marriage so she could take everything away from me, she has always presented herself as this really sweet, gentle, good Christian. I have her mother's address. I know what church my exhole joined in order to present himself as a good Christian in the middle of his adulterous affair.

Some days, it's all I can do not to visit and call her mother and his church to tell them just what kind of people my exhole and his slut really are.

Some days, it's all I can do not to visit and call her mother and his church to tell them just what kind of people my exhole and his slut really are.

Absolutely, my WW will be in for a rude awakening if and when she decides to attend another church...I will be meeting with the pastoral staff and an elder (and wives) to inform them of who they will be having in their midst, since her last A was with our pastor.

Some things I will never let her escape.

Ultimately I can't do anything like that because he unfortunately likely still has photos of my ww "dressed up" and not even having met him I am betting he's the type that would put them out there if I did something.

One of the things that I repeatedly have said to ww is that since dday1 she has never just asked how I'm doing even though I have said to her that there are good and bad days. For the past 2 days she has asked if I am having a "good" day. Since getting all of the info that I had really needed I have had 2 decent days in a row. Not that I didn't wake up to it being the first thought in my head but didn't wake up with a pit in my stomach wondering if there were more lies out there for me to find. Let's hope for 3 straight days.....

Looks like you'll keep hanging on.

What exactly is it you're hanging onto?

I'm hanging on to my marriage, my family and my wife.

I am giving my WW, who seemingly has grasped and is attempting to repair the damage that she has done a chance to avoid a worst case scenario. WW is currently doing everything that I feel is necessary to help me rebuild.

This DDay turned out to not be exactly what I thought it was , but she understands why she can no longer communicate with this person even though they have actually been friends for a very long time and I DO know of him. She understands how it looks to me but at the time didn't think it was a big deal because she had always been friends with him. When my response was "well, times are different now and this ends now" she understood.

I fully anticipate bumps in the road to R. This was not one that I expected but it is being dealt with appropriately on both sides. What the next few weeks brings will be anyone's guess (as I mentioned in the past thread I was trying to avoid any major upheaval until after the kids' birthdays which will both be passed by mid-March). If something happens after that I will need to move on. There won't be a warning or a discussion.

How are you doing today ?

ETA: I accidentally replaced w at the end of how with an e. . .That is one type that wouldn't be understsood. LOL. Sorry, but I am laughing at myself right now.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 4:12 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]

N&D Thank you for asking.

I am doing far better today than I have been and if you happened to see my earlier posts, this has been multiple days in a row where I haven't thought about the EA as soon as I woke up. In fact, today I hadn't thought about it until I decided to pop on here and see what was new and how everyone else is doing.

WW took the night off last night just so we could be together at home as we had been out separately most of the weekend doing things with the kids at separate places. It was really just a chance for us to have a few minutes of peace before the week started over. We don't see as much of each other as we would like due to our jobs and it bothers me a lot in the evenings when she's at work but right now it's really our only option.

I always swing by to check on you although i don't always post. Thank you for sharing. You never know what may help the next person. Sometimes just sharing your emotional roller coaster helps the next BS or maybe just acknowledging the DD2 wasn't what you expected.

IMO, I think your wife's reaction to your concerns is very positive and you're making progress. I like the date night idea.

You are not alone.

Thanks Robert. I always want to post updates even if it is something small but I often get wrapped up reading the other posts. I also tend to re read my own posts from dday1 until now not only to remind myself that I still do need to be cautious, but to see the ups and downs and gauge where I am at the moment.

Her night off ....it came from a good place . It wasn't planned but I think she sees just how much we need to actually spend time alone and with our work schedules it's only really 2 nights a week that we get to spend together. I think it caught up with her and she misses our connection. I certainly do and have been really hoping she will look for a different job.

Htm2

You seem to be doing well. Tell me, do you have a written recovery plan? Documenting the actions you need to see, written down and reviewed with her weekly or every 2 weeks to see how she progresses on those things?

If not I recommend you ask her to creat a first draft to review with you this weekend.

This is a long haul. Doing recovery in an unstructured way is much more difficult to sustain over time.

Things like IC for her, an apology letter, a letter describing why she chooses to stay with you and help you heal, what you and her family mean to her, perhaps a postnup that gives you favorable D terms if she strays again, apologies to family and close friends for betraying them and their love for her as well, a written timeline of what she did with the AP, a weekly date night planned by her, a letter describing what her infidelity must have made you feel ...... whatever you need to see in order to heal.

You seem to be on the right track. Dont leave it to chance, but don’t do the work for her. R requires the WS to take the lead. To show how much they want it.

I wish you both well and hopefully a long and happy life together.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:48 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]

Stevesn, while I have not written out a plan, I have structure in place. We have mutually decided to plan dates on our days off. This was something that we both agreed would be beneficial as it would not only give us something to do, but give us both a chance to expand our activities and not get stuck in a rut.

We have gone back and forth regarding counseling and at my direction (and the recommendation of just about everyone here) we are both doing IC before there is even a thought of MC. She asked why and my thought process is that she needs to figure out why she chose to have EA rather than communicate with me and I need it to keep my head in check and really figure out how I want to move forward.

I have a ballpark timeline and am satisfied with it. She tried to give me exact dates but some were off by a week or so based on emails. We discussed it and she just doesn't know when exactly it turned from casual chat to "here's my number".

She has really tried and I feel like since dday2 for lack of a better term, she has seen just how bad her actions were. I am documenting everything we discuss in case there is ever a difference in the story. On the bus so forgive my typos . Will continue when I get to work. Thanks for checking in ,