SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm 9 years in.....if I ever get that gut feeling I think I'd be out too.

After all the shyt I/we went through after D-day+5-6 years of her R.... I'm pretty cool with the old lady and it's been a good run. She is pulling her weight and focused on her R..

BUT IF SHYT GOT SHADY I'D BAIL IN A HEART BEAT!!!

I mean... me and the old lady have broken some vows between each other but after 30 years I'd dumb her if she started screwing around again.... she would dumb me if I started slapping her around again. We just don't need that crap in our life at this age. WE GOT GRAND BABIES!

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 1:22 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

Wish,

From your original post in this thread:

I stayed for 11 years. Thinking we could make it to the end.

One day last year I had that gut feeling again. I asked her for her laptop password and she refused. The following day I hired a lawyer and filed for D.

(2) questions:

--First, when you thought that you could 'make it to the end', did you mean until all of the kids are grown, or for the rest of your lives?

--Second, in a hypothetical, if you asked your wife for her laptop, and she immediately handed it to you without resistance...and there was nothing suspicious on there, what would have been your next course of action? Would it have helped ease the suspicions of improper behavior? Would it have been one more building block of trust? Or would it seem like she 'got away with it' this time?

I cannot think of a single thing that would cause me as much harm as my WW's LTA, the lies and gaslighting and the TT, etc. after DDay. There are things that would be painful and awful but I can't think of anything worse. As josie said the adultery included all kinds of other abuses, too. A key element of the marital contract (forsake all others) was broken. In my mind a new contract (marriage), a new agreement would need to be agreed to in order to R and stay married.

JB,

The end. Meaning death do us part. Originally I had planned to finish raising my children. I felt keeping the family together was the right thing to do even though it had been badly damaged.

Once they were 18 I could leave. I tried very hard not to bring up the affair over the next 11 years. I knew she wouldn’t stay if I kept beating it over her head. But during a couple of heated arguments I did bring it up. She knew I could I pull out the cheater card at will.

I only insisted one time in 11 years to see her phone and laptop. She completely flipped out. There was some pushing and shoving over it so it became physical for the first time. I had the laptop but not the password. She threatened to call the police if I didn’t give it back. I ended up giving it back then hired an attorney. If she had just given me access to her laptop we’d still be Married.

I’ll never know what diabolical shit she had going on. It was torture not knowing. I do know she was stealing my identity. I began getting calls from bill collectors for past due loans I never applied for. She had trashed her credit score so started using my ID. She had my drivers Lic and SS numbers. She admitted the financial infidelity. I don’t know if there was an affair going on.

I believe XWW is a broken inside. That her issues stem from her child hood. She never said anything good about her Dad who cheated on her Mom throughout their marriage.

She stopped talking to her Father for years because of it then became a cheater herself.

The D was painful but I’ve taken my investigator cap off and don’t worry about living with someone who i never could trust again.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 7:58 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

Wish, your thread has pushed the buttons of an easily identifiable group here on SI. Those who R'd with a cheating spouse and are pugnaciously defensive about taking that path. Those who D'd, be it immediately (like me), or after a period of time long or short, don't seem to become so bellicose about justifying that decision. Why is that? I don't know. One would need to be a mind-reader to know the answer. Toward the end of my original thread from a year ago, some from that faction began to weigh in heavily. It was suggested to me via PM's that it's themselves they're trying to justify their decision to. In any event, I wish you well and congratulate you on getting out of infidelity.

Lt,

It’s fascinating. My post was meant for those who JFO. To give them some perspective on the reality of R. It’s no cake walk. I’ve received some very warm PMs from a few thanking me for sharing my story. It cirtainly has struck a nerve on those who have chosen to stay. I think my story reminds them of their vulnerability. It has them question their own decision and that’s an uncomfortable place to be.

Best of luck to you Sir. And hats off for your decisiveness to rid yourself of infidelity. I get particularly upset when I hear someone serving his or her country is betrayed by infidelity.

Sad that anyone could sink so low.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 9:37 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

Problem is Wishiwasnthereto that your original post simply states that for anyone dealing with infidelity there is no chance of reconciliation, plus is suggests that if you can find some way to cohabit until you kids are 18 then that’s fine. Basically, you are encouraging people to accept and live in infidelity. To me that is about as damaging advice as can be offered and IMHO dangerous for the newly betrayed people that come here. IMHO (and I am not a mod or have any power in that area here) this thread would be fine in General but is downright abusive here on JFO.

I have no problems with you divorcing. I am trained to avoid jumping to conclusions, so I’m assuming you are divorcing because of trust issues rather than present infidelity (all we know is there is a locked computer – we still don’t know what it’s hiding).

I don’t get it.

This is the JFO forum. The forum for those that have just discovered their spouse in some state of infidelity. That infidelity can range from early emotional infidelity to raging, multi-partner long-term same-sex affairs.

The JFO forum is one of several forums on a site about infidelity. The other forums have relatively descriptive names. Names like Reconciliation and Divorce.

The forum itself is founded, managed and financed by a couple that were on either side of the infidelity curse; a wayward wife and a betrayed husband. Despite the infidelity they remained married for years after they committed to reconciliation with no repeat of infidelity. The same applies to many prominent members here on this site.

A good number of the members and moderators are people that have happily divorced. Me included.

And yet we have a very vocal and active group insisting that THEIR one pill cures all ills. And that one pill is that no matter what level of infidelity your marriage is dealing with, no matter what your family situation, financial situation, your spouse’s reaction or your background the ONLY solution is to DIVORCE.

No matter what.

Irrespective of ANYTHING – including what the person that shares his story here wishes for.

No. Divorce is the ONLY solution.

And while you are at it. Make it as hard, hurtful and vengeful as you can.

If you dare try anything else then you are weak.

After all. People are not capable of change. If your spouse cheats he/she is a cheater and will inevitably cheat again. Change isn’t possible at all…

Sorry…

To me this message is a downright insult to every single poster on this site.

Not least of all our host.

To be totally blunt: I can’t understand the morals of those that invite themselves repeatedly to this site – hosted by a formerly betrayed husband and probably now kept up and running to honor his now-departed formerly cheating wife – and repeatedly tell everyone that the ONLY solution is divorce. That whatever our host did won’t work and isn’t real. Basically, telling him that the last decades of his marriage are fake and thereby his memories of his wife not real.

I don’t see many posters (in fact I only remember one time in the +10 years I have been here) that present a reconcile-at-any-cost agenda. Supposedly I’m “pro-R” when I prefer to call myself pro-action: Reconcile if you can and want to, divorce if you want to or must. But do either FULLY.

And yet we have a very vocal and active group insisting that THEIR one pill cures all ills. And that one pill is that no matter what level of infidelity your marriage is dealing with, no matter what your family situation, financial situation, your spouse’s reaction or your background the ONLY solution is to DIVORCE.

No matter what.

Irrespective of ANYTHING – including what the person that shares his story here wishes for.

No. Divorce is the ONLY solution.

And while you are at it. Make it as hard, hurtful and vengeful as you can.

If you dare try anything else then you are weak.

After all. People are not capable of change. If your spouse cheats he/she is a cheater and will inevitably cheat again. Change isn’t possible at all…

I've never seen one person say all this but I haven't read all the posts on S.I. so I can't say for sure.

What I have seen is many individual people say one of the things you've listed and some individuals who have said 2 or 3 of the things you've listed but I've never felt that any group believes everything you listed.

And it bothers me a lot that people are being painted with this brush as though if you believe A, they automatically assume you believe B.

I think their voices add a dimension to the conversations that needs to be heard. Especially by the codependents who have just found out because there are many among them who don't even consider the possibility of divorce because they believe deep in their soul that it is their job, their obligation, to fix the infidelity somehow, to fix whatever's wrong so everyone will be happy and not suffer any pain or inconvenience.

I'm a loud, brash, take no prisoners, force to be reckoned with. Well, I used to be. Living with an alcoholic who then cheated on me turned me into a loud, brash wimp because when my H got fired for having an A on the job, I made an appt. with the PRESIDENT of the company and went in and told him it was all my fault and that I would leave town and they could give H his job back. I almost vomit when I remember that. And thank heavens for the counselor I found the following week. Fast forward 34 yrs. and it all went up in flames anyway but at that time, I have no doubt I was in such a sad state of believing I was worthless, I would have applied for welfare and ruined my kids and withered away and died had it not been for my counselor who screamed in my face to wake me up. Some people need that.

Additionally, I find nothing wrong with suggesting that a newly BS consult an attorney and find out their rights cuz it helps them feel some control out of their lives. And then, depending on their particular circumstances, maybe even file. And after they file, if the WS doesn't beg for forgiveness, it would appear they've made the right decision, no?

[This message edited by josiep at 11:35 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

Supposedly I’m “pro-R” when I prefer to call myself pro-action

Well, you've evolved from about 4-5 years ago. Back then you stated you are very pro-reconciliation.

JosieP, I tend to agree with your premise of abuses, but I do find distinct differences between the person who chooses to rape, beat, or even murder a fellow human vs. an idiotic selfish asshole who lacks the intelligence and foresight to see the pain cheating on someone will eventually cause. It’s kind of like the drunk driver who plows into an innocent family... had they had the sober intelligence to understand that they would inflict sick pain on innocents, I suspect many would stop before they get behind the wheel. If the cheater had the foresight to see the devastation their selfishness would cause, I have to believe many would at least take pause. This is not excusing their behavior at all, but I know I personally have picked up my phone for a second while driving to send a quick text. Wrong? Absolutely! Dangerous? Without a doubt. Potentially devastating? I can’t not deny it and I am ashamed. I could have caused a traumatic accident and even a death. Am I as guilty as a murderer or immoral as a murderer? Did I just get lucky? Or did I make a selfish choice that I luckily got away with? What if I hadn’t got away with it? Would I be worse than a cheater? Just as bad? The behavior all stems from selfish behavior.

We were discussing the contract of marriage and you said if your WH had committed certain other abuses, you might not have stayed. The abuses you list above are illegal and the perpetrator should go to prison, irrespective of whether infidelity was involved. The abuses you list are not part of the marriage vows.

If someone breaks a contract, there are consequences. Forgiveness might follow but it's my belief that unless they draw up a new contract, they'd be on shaky ground since the old one wasn't upheld.

[This message edited by josiep at 11:43 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

Pro-reconciliation? Me?

Can’t’ be…. This thread has established that nobody can change…

I don’t remember the context of that statement, but I freely admit that I think marriages can survive from anything. This does not equate to them having to survive, but rather that if both partners are willing to do the work then reconciliation is possible.

I encourage you to find a single thread where I state reconciliation is the only solution. You can find dozens where I strongly advocate divorce or cutting your losses.

Pro-reconciliation? Me?

Can’t’ be…. This thread has established that nobody can change…

Put a big smile on my face.

I encourage you to find a single thread where I state reconciliation is the only solution. You can find dozens where I strongly advocate divorce or cutting your losses.

There isn't one, but there is where you stated you were extremely pro-R, especially when someone was on the fence.

You stated you were extremely pro-R, especially when someone was on the fence.

Interesting. Encouraging JFO to stay in infidelity yet condemning me for suggesting the same for the innocent children involved which is the morality correct thing to do.

Interesting. Encouraging JFO to stay in infidelity yet condemning me for suggesting the same for the innocent children involved which is the morality correct thing to do.

Bigger can (and I'm sure will) speak for himself. He's never encouraged (think about what the word encouraged means) anyone to stay in infidelity. He's the exact opposite of this. He just makes sure that an OP understands that there are two ways out of infidelity and R is one of them. It often requires a lot that both the B and W must do, but if they are willing to do the hard work, there are examples of success despite what looks like daunting odds.

Wish, I agree with everything you said over the last 2 pages. Infidelity is worse than all but murder and then sometimes I wonder.

I agree with you over the others who have dissented.

We may be all different but I don't get the people who will rugsweep or take constant abuse.

Not saying all R's are bad but we have just seen a wave of infidelities on this board lasting decades.

I can't fathom but but I will tell you that you have a supporter in me

Thanks bigger for your input. You have said it far more eloquently than I have been able to do. The premise of this thread is insulting to the posters on this site.

“After all people are not capable of change. If your spouse cheats, he/she is a cheater and will inevitably cheat again. Change isn’t possible at.”

josiep, I have read many of your posts and you are a fair and firm poster. You tell it like it is. I could be wrong but I don’t believe you support telling every new arrival in JFO that R is impossible and that you will just suffer a false R. R is not possible under any circumstances. That is exactly what the OP supports doing. Thanks again bigger. So you’re pro-R?huh?

** posting as a member **

Those who R'd with a cheating spouse and are pugnaciously defensive about taking that path.

You're suffering from a basic misreading of the texts.

josiep, I have read many of your posts and you are a fair and firm poster. You tell it like it is. I could be wrong but I don’t believe you support telling every new arrival in JFO that R is impossible and that you will just suffer a false R. R is not possible under any circumstances. That is exactly what the OP supports doing. Thanks again bigger. So you’re pro-R?huh?

The OP clearly said he was speaking to men. So he clearly wasn't speaking to every new arrival.

Secondly, this thread will eventually die so only the people who are new within this narrow time frame are likely to see it.

And the OP clearly said "leave," not divorce. I realize that's a stretch but when you're going to hold someone's feet to the fire for his use of words, then it goes both ways. He didn't say R is impossible. You inferred that and while you might be right and that's what he meant, he didn't say that and it was up to the reader to decide which way to take it. Nor did he say R was impossible under any circumstances.

What I see here is a contingent of people who have had some skirmishes along the way and it still floats to the surface now and then.

But instead of being so adamant in response to the "team" that irks you, perhaps speak to the newly betrayed and give another side. It's not necessary for me to badmouth Person A in order to speak to Person B.

And, please, the people who come here are adults and they know that different people have different opinions and different points of view. Give them the dignity of having half a brain and being able to sort through the chafe to find the pearls (I'm really good at twisting my expressions). If I'm in Macy's and try on 2 dresses and 2 different sales people give me different opinions, I won't run out of the store crying, I'll pick the one I like best.

And I'll take this one step further. There are a few who have stated that people have been driven away from S.I. because posters were being too hard on them. I'd bet my last dollar that every single one of those people, the ones who can't handle anonymous people criticizing them on the internet, ended up doing the pick me dance, ended up worse off financially, ended up worse off emotionally, take your pick but certainly at least one negative outcome because they couldn't stand up for themselves. My heart breaks for them but really, do you honestly think that me telling someone to file for D will cause them to get a D against their cheating spouse's wishes? That's really quite a stretch. If my M hangs on me not making the jackass angry, then I'm better off without him. And I suspect they'll figure it out someday.

I want to say this part separately.

If I'd been posting on here 4 years ago, I'd have been firmly in the Pro-R camp. Part of the reason I'm having such a hard time overcoming my situation is I was so proud of fixing my family and making it through Hell and back. I was proud of myself for doing so much hard work to save my Marriage. I went to classes, I read books, I did it all. I was glad for it because it did improve my behavior and it definitely brought out a much better behaved him. Other than my children, it was probably the thing in life I was most proud of. My biggest meaningful accomplishment, so to speak. See? If you just work hard enough, you can do it. It's just a matter of having inner strength and tenacity and integrity or whatever high faluting words you want to use.

And then, 34 yrs. later, he lost his job and started going downhill, being crabby and depressed and beginning to do little mean things again. I felt really bad for him and so I dove in and gave up what was left of me, determined to pull us over this hurdle cuz we were at the finish line, retired, living in Paradise, gorgeous grandkids, kids doing fine. I had such dreams for the rest of our time.

He was a manager of hundreds of people so he'd attended a lot of educational workshops about people plus the company psychologist consultant was his good friend. And he'd always told me people can't change their basic character and personality, he'd learned that in management classes and discussed it a lot with his friend. He'd always tell me that cuz I was always trying to save people I'd meet and help the down and out and he'd tease me about it all the time. But in the end, he was right. None of the people I ever tried to help made any changes to how they live and when they were done with me, they just tossed me aside and found a new sucker who'd believe their tale of woe. Including him cuz she bought his line hook, line and sinker. And so it turns out he was right all along.

He was going to the Dark side and when push came to shove, he handled his problem the same way he did when he got fired in 1982. So in the end, he hadn't changed at all. I thought he had. Lots of people thought he had. But that little devil on his shoulder got the best of him again. And he again took his conflict avoidance to the extreme - never said a word to anyone, just moved 1000+ miles away to her house and hasn't stayed in touch with anyone. None of his friends, none of his relatives. He talks to our DD a bit but it's not a relationship of any sort. He became someone else, he's thin now, he's branded himself a successful businessman with lots of money and as a really nice guy. And I'm the wicked witch of the west. Point, set, match or whatever the expression is. The advantage I have at this point is I'm old and don't have any aspirations so I'm able to just accept it.

But for anyone who's under age 50 and is betrayed? I say save yourself while you still can.

<sorry this is a bit disjointed; I'm in a rush and I hate typing in this little box>

So in the end, he hadn't changed at all.

I posted on this before:

In essence he controlled and managed his trait.

That's not change. If circumstances are right and the guards go down the old traits can surface.

I'm sorry for your dissapointment.