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I know what you mean.

I don’t do myself any good by entering such discussions.

Prior to that we just had an actually normal conversation between two adults.

We both remarked how proud we are of our son - great social skills, doing well in sports and at school despite the separation.

We knew, he would receive the school principal award today and he has such a good group of friends.

I felt that the day went as well as it could under difficult circumstances - and then she came up with this message.

No reply would have been better, for sure .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 1:28 AM, June 24th (Monday)]

Atg100

I posted once about your situation.

You have moved ahead and are making good progress.

You are a successful professional, highly intelligent, & very logical.

Highly logical people have trouble understanding the actions of illogical people. How can they not see what they have done? How can they not see what they are doing to their family? Why do they continue down this road?

You are still having trouble dealing with her thought processes. My I suggest that you read SerJR's recent post about the One Fucking Eighty.

Your continued efforts still seem aimed at trying to bring her back to reality, or getting your old life back. I say to you, it will never happen, & all logic tells you to move on.

Your happiness & your family's happiness depends on you conducting an emotionless separation, a businesslike divorce, and a search for a new life that in no way depends on her.

It is like the amputation of an infected limb. You hate to see it happen, but your life depends on it, and it has to happen. Move on, rehabilitate, and live your new life.

They limb must go and so must she. You know this, but your subconscious will not accept it. Understand this and use your logic instead of your heart.

Thank you for your post.

It's probably a bit more complex than that.

I don't want to get back together with her, so I don't have this subconscious drive.

I think it has a lot to do with my personality and profession.

I see 20+ people daily, who come to me with problems, and I try to help them.

It is my reflex to see, if I can create a plan and make them better. This goes in line with my personality. I am the pan-ultimate nice guy.

Of course, to a narcissist like her, I must look like the number one "chump". Primary reason for my existence is to serve her, when it suits her.

Just one of the last exchanges - I asked her if she agrees that we file for divorce, when we meet for financial separation. She said she was not ready. Of course, the cheater has absolutely no right to delay the divorce date.

But I look at her response, and think that its probably not worth having a fight about, prior to mediation. So I am constantly striving towards avoiding conflict.

Whilst other people would have told her, that they would go ahead, unilaterally if need be.

I have thought if I should change who I am in this situation. The answer is "no", she just doesn't deserve a nice guy like myself.

But in the only remaining battle which actually counts, the divorce hearing and the co-parenting arrangements, I am represented by an aggressive attack dog, aka lawyer.

I pay him to look after me and he does it well.

All the other little points she may score, they actually count for nothing.

So I am constantly striving towards avoiding conflict.

This has a lot to do with being married to a narcissist. Have the lawyer move everything forward as quickly as possible and cut back on conversations that don't have to do with finances and kids. Conversations about kids should be yes/no questions or informative... Billy's teacher called to discuss his math grade so I'm working with him on word problems... Jane is interested in having a play date on Thursday during your time. Call her if you are interested...

You don't want to be pulled into memories of the good times, talks of an emotional nature, even "how did your interview go?" can blow up on you. That talk about how great your son is was manipulative... it was her way of pulling you back in... see how great we are together?... See what a great son we raised?... and then when she got you where she wanted you slamming the door. "The kids weren't healthy for me." She's a narcissist it's all manipulative trying to get you to care. You are going to feel so much better once you are divorce and able to detach more fully from her. I know Narcissist are difficult because you don't want to piss them off...Once your divorce you won't have to worry so much about making her angry. Keep moving forward as quickly as you can.

On Saturday I will move up - to the Top End.

The kids and I will go camping in Kakadu National Park.

And one of the best features will be the lack of phone reception.

Just like on previous trips, I am hoping to come back stronger.

Whilst we were still married, we always had this very predictable way of dealing with conflict .

I’d sy something which she didn’t like, she got mad , I try to calm things down.

I don’t have to do this dance any more, which is great.

I’m aware of my weaknesses , but that knowledge is protective - I don’t want to go there again.

I for one, think you are doing fine in your journey out of infidelity, ATG. You are doing you. Yes there are things that you can be stop doing or begin doing to help aid you along your way out if infidelity. You have chosen to remain a good caring father and a supportive individual to your STBXWW in a limited way so not to rock the boat as the saying goes. You know this brings you emotional turmoil from time to time, but you ARE focused on your goal ahead....D. You are doing g well use us as your sounding board to vent your rants and frustrations. Keep it going. Tweak your behavior here and there to help limit your rollercoaster dips, before you know it your D will be finalized and you free of her opinions and actions. Keep moving forward my friend.

Hey, thanks for the support.

It is a process, and at times I feel completely helpless, and on other days, I am almost euphoric.

The more I actively work on myself the easier it gets.

I talked to my lawyer about unilaterally filing for divorce.

It needs to be 12 months of separation and my stbxw can easily object prior to December. Even if we started to live separate lives , in separate bedrooms and she was still seeing her AP.

She moved finally out in December.

I'm in two minds. I don't want her to have the upper hand again, on something which is important to me.

Equally, its probably not worth the fight; I don't want to get married , there is no true urgency.

The law is funny in Australia, but I have to stay within the rules.

We will be off to our camping trip tomorrow morning.

Luckily I’m all packed, the last day is always crazy.

My ex sent a long email wishing us a wonderful holiday and telling me that the camping trips were always her favourite adventures with me.

If the relationship was that awful that she needed an affair with a lying scumbag, why then fondly remember the past ?

Good thing I don’t have to figure that one out anymore.

I replied :” thanks for the message, I’ll let the kids know that you wished them a nice holiday “

And that was that.

You still have 6 months left to run this clock out. I really feel for you on that. Deep breath..

Your going to have to sink your energy and thoughts into something to help you get through this. Perhaps more quality time with your children. Making each visit special. of course there is the hobbie thing. How's your golf game? AFL? Rugby/league. Cricket.

Enjoy the weekend.

It will be a whole week in Kakadu.

I know why you mean about distraction.

I’m busy at work of course ; I have joined a self improvement course which addresses physical and intellectual growth.

It’s specifically for men but not “ toxic masculinity “

I will focus on that and on my kids.

Dedicating a large proportion of my time and energy to the kids is rewarding .

I will be fine, I know that.

At the moment I am still considering to file for divorce in August.

She could then object and argue that it hasn’t been 12 months of separation . However she could also just agree. It’s a bit of pride on my behalf - she had the affair, I wish to be the one to determine when it’s over . But I think about it a little bit.

Enjoy your week camping with the kids. Focus on them and yourself. Try to put the D and your STBXWW aside and enjoy the moment. Reality will be waiting for you when you return.

Hey ATG

Have a great time with the kids in Kakadu. Was last up there in 2014 with a group of National Geographic photographers. Must organise for my wife and I to get up there again next year to add more photos to the collection.

Use the time to de-stress. I liked going out at night and just contemplating the night sky in Northern Australia.The kids will always remember this trip too.

Promise me you will not give your STBXW, the separation and the impending divorce a second thought while you are away.

My ex sent a long email wishing us a wonderful holiday and telling me that the camping trips were always her favorite adventures with me.

She is such a narcissist. This was her way of trying to make you think of her and the fun trips you had while camping. A long email? This was her messing with your mind before you leave with the kids. She wants to be a part of your vacation mentally if she can't be there physically. You did a good job "pretending" you didn't get the gist of her message...Me, me, me....

Chances are if you would have invited her she would have come back with a ... too busy, can't do it, have plans.... she wants you to want her to be there, more than she wants to be there herself.

I hope you have a wonderful vacation with your kids and she doesn't enter you mind in the least.

That’s pretty good insight Freeme.

And I agree - this is only to pull attention towards her .

But the phone will be switched off and I have got stuff to do and books to read ...

[This message edited by Atg100 at 7:09 AM, June 28th (Friday)]

My first post from great holidays.

We have not even been here a week, but we have seen so many things:crocodiles, all kinds of birds, wild pigs, the fantastic night sky.

The kids are very happy, although I had to slow down the itinerary quite a bit. They were initially exhausted by the frequent changes.

One unpleasant thing happened:

My son used my ipad to send a few photos to his grandmother, my MIL.

I sent a quick text saying that this would happen - he was really keen.

Anyway, she replied that she had been so happy to hear from me, she and her husband apparently care a lot for me.

This is the same person, who runs around and tells everyone, that the divorce was my fault and that my stbxw did not have an affair.

I wrote back to her, asking her to stop the bullshit.

I wrote that I knew exactly what she was up to and whilst I respect her for being my children's grandmother and will allow my kids to have contact with her, I otherwise won't have anything to do with her.

This woman stabbed me so spectacularly in the back.

Just like her daughter, she wants it both ways.

Because - I was actually quite a nice son in law.

Paying for many flights for her from Perth to Brisbane and also holidays in Port Douglas and the Sunshine Coast with us. My former in-laws always claimed that they had no money.

All the same behaviors, which they taught their daughter.

Of course, staying quite would have been the better option, but when she texted how much she cared about me, something just snapped.

I was wondering if I did the wrong thing, but it needed to be said.

Being friends with me is a privilege not a right.

Anyway, back to my beer and the night sky.

So glad your enjoying your time away with the kids. I, for one, am glad you put your MIL in her place. You have shown her your boundaries after she put the proverbial knife in your back with her behavior behind your back. Your inlaws will have to side with your STBXWW butvthey don't have to go around saying she didn't have an A and that the breakdown in your marriage was your fault. Go back to enjoying your beer watching the stars knowing you stood up for yourself. Yet another lesson you can impart onto your kids. Enjoy.

Hey ATG

Was wondering how your Kakadu trip was going. Glad you took my suggestion to take the time to have a beer and view the Northern Australia night sky. There is something very contemplative it doing that.

With respect to your response to your MIL ..you can only hold back for so long in listening to all the crap she is talking about you .. and then has the temerity to say she cares a lot about you. This time the lid just popped off the pressure cooker!!! If she responds just tell her that her daughter has now eventually had the guts to admit to you she had an affair. Should put MIL right back in her box.

Continue to enjoy the rest of your time in Kakadu. Hope you have taken plenty of photos to share with kids as a reminder of these times together.

I think you did fine with your reply to MIL. My guess is that your Narc has been feeding your MIL mixed messages. In the beginning it was all evil, I didn't cheat, DP is mentally abusive, I hate him... she is the victim of your treatment. Her most recent messages to her Mom have been poor me, DP is leaving me, I wont have money, the kids, he is rushing things, what will I do... Still the victim but one that wants you as her back-up.

As all enablers her Mom is reacting to the messages she is getting. She wants to be your friend, maintain communication with you to help her daughter.

Cutting her off now and letting her know why will hopefully cut off years of her flip flopping as your WW moods/needs change. MIL will always put WW needs first so she is not a "friend" you need or want.

Glad you are having a wonderful vacation with your kids. I love the fact that you keep planning and having these little adventures with the kids even with all of the stress of work/divorce/WW going on. Keep moving forward with the divorce as fast as you can.

The return from the holidays was quite a contrast .

After being with the kids in such a close environment for 8 days, I now found myself alone in the house.

I made the stupid mistake to ring my ex to express my sadness about missing half of the children’s life.

How could I ?

Turns out she is happy, has a new man, works very hard.

It took a sleepless night to come to the following conclusions:

The new man has gained a cheater.

I’m better off without her.

I need to make my time with the kids count, rather than looking at lost time and opportunities.

The upcoming mediation can’t come soon enough.

I’m socially isolated - most of my friends are family fathers - and busy with family activities on days when I am on my own.

I am in a depressive mood and really have taken a few steps backwards.

So:

I have scheduled an appointment with a new psychologist .

The previous one and I just didn’t click - and I was further ahead than were I was now.

I now recognise my weak moments:

Sleep deprivation, being outside my routine and missing my kids are all moments where I have been sad and depressed.

And called her recently twice.

I called two of my single friends and will catch them for drinks on Friday.

I will restart judo training . Something which was my passion which I gave away after injury and being to busy with parenting.

Gym and climbing are ok, but judo was always my main sport.

I will get exercise and social contact, rather than just being on my own in the gym.

I recently received her financial disclosure and got an insight in her spending on weekends.

She visits a lot of bars and restaurants, spends beyond her nursing income and really can only do that due to the financial support I give her.

I discussed with my lawyer if I should reduce the money to the legally required amount.

He advises not to do that - we are only 6 weeks away from mediation , this would put her into a combative mood and at the moment everything looks amicable .

The actual savings are not worth it.

She and her lawyer are still behind with the disclosure as well as agreeing to the values of all entities .

My lawyer will write to them today, reminding them that we asked since January if they agree to the values or not.

He will point out that if disagreements about the values derail the mediation , I will not agree to carry the cost of a late evaluation .

I think once the mediation is over , things will look brighter .

I asked my son yesterday what the highlight of the holidays was.

He is 8, and he said “ time with you dad “

That makes up for it

Hi ATG

Sorry the roller coaster of emotions continues. Why do you keep hurting yourself by contacting your STBXW? What did you expect to hear ..you knew she was actively pursuing a single women's lifestyle so her telling you she is happy and has a new man is just rubbing salt in the wound and is consistent with Freeme's insights into the mind of a narcissist. Do you know anything about this guy? My concern would be if she has introduced him to your kids when you are technically still legally married. Didn't you have an agreement with her about when it was appropriate to introduce new partners? Where your kids are involved you have a right to know who this person is.

ETA: I think getting back into judo is a great idea for your physical and emotional needs as well as for the social contact in finding new friends.

Let your lawyer guide you on other financial and legal matters but I would hope that given this information you would seriously consider a mediation/ divorce combination in August.

Love the comment from you son. Keep strong ATG.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 12:53 AM, July 8th (Monday)]