SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Knowledge is a good thing. Nice investigation. Now you'll be much better prepared to deal with it effectively.

My day turned in a different direction yesterday : a friend, himself a single dad with two kids, called me .

He had severe anxiety, had been drinking too much and felt very unwell.

I asked him and his kids to stay with me, I was very worried.

He is triangulated by a cheater - his girlfriend has another boyfriend in Sydney - and is just about to go on a long trip overseas and then move to Sydney .

I’m not sure if she is a narcissist or just an awful person.

And I’m not sure if my friend knew about the other man when he started the relationship, but I think he did not. It didn’t matter yesterday.

But my own experiences allow me to see bullshit so clearly.

My friend, desperate and in love made excuses “ she is confused “. I could see myself a little bit in him, hiding from the truth, wanting her version to be correct .

He has to figure it out himself .

I remember when people a year ago told me what was going on, and I just kept smoking the hopium pipe.

She is good at her game , giving him little bits of hope here and there. But also made it his fault that the relationship doesn’t progress . “ you need to love yourself first before you can love me “ Yet she is the reason that he is so unhappy in the first place .

I didn’t say much yesterday .

I cooked dinner for him and the children , made him tea, listened . Gave him a sleeping tablet and asked the kids to come to me if they need something .

I recognise the pain and confusion.

I focused on the very basics ; it’s one day at a time.

And I vowed to myself to never go to such a point again, that someone who clearly doesn’t deserve me, messes so much with my mind. He felt better today , I’ll check in with him tonight.

Good for you, Atg. I supported a friend back in the early 1990's whose wife cheated on him. I called him when I found out about my wife 20 years later. He supported me far more than I him because he had lived through it. Now I have, too. Good for you for supporting your friend and being there for him in his need.

He needs to figure out (ask himself) why He puts such a high priority on her when he's not even an option?

It's really that black and white.

I know how he got there - she is feeding him hopium.

She was planning a big good bye dinner date with him next week.

I advised to cancel .

But how often have I posted here and people shouted at me “ can’t you see ???”

And I had my blinkers on , and took another big puff of the hopium and continued lying to myself .

I like to compare this state to mental illness, because some neurotransmitters are clearly misfiring at that stage.

I told him about the 180.

He will get there, he is otherwise smart.

She was planning a big good bye dinner date with him next week.

Geeze. Now that is a "pick me dance".

Well, he followed my advice and took it further .

Told her that he won’t see her anymore and blocked her on his phone and social media.

A win for the good guys.

Nice work if you don’t have kids or a marriage certificate.

It will hurt for a while and then he will breathe freedom .

Nice support you gave him. Nothing like experience.

I checked in with him late in the evening.

She had sent him one more message before he blocked her .

“ I’m surprised to get this message . I wanted to have a very different discussion with you about our future . Well, I just leave your apartment key in your letter box “

What a lot of bullshit

They all follow the same rule book and of course she wanted to give him a little bit of pain, right at the end.

He recognised that , however.

I listened to a lecture about covert narcissists . The speaker postulated that there are 3 stages and in level 1 , when they are all timid and withdrawn, there is even help and change possible .

But my ex has left that stage. I don’t want to and can’t fix her.

I had seen phases were she was depressed, picking her skin.

Complaining that she always felt ugly compared to her peers.

She had terrible post natal depression after our first child, even spend a month in close therapy in a day hospital .

But what is likely a personality disorder wasn’t picked up.

Right now she is in a stage where I’m likely the scapegoat for all her misfortunes ; according to the lecturer there is no return.

New supply may get me off the hook, so to speak.

I wish I could just stay no contact.

She will take any criticism extremely hard. Grey rock is the answer of course - do not engage.

But when I have to enforce boundaries , I will automatically clash and will never be met with a logical response .

I will now finish with learning about the covert narcissist .

I’d say I know enough and focus on me.

I’m a people pleaser for sure, am I a true empath ? I don’t know. Bottom line is - I am canon fodder for narcissists and that needs to change before I enter any new relationship .

I wish I could just stay no contact.

This is up to you. With young kids in the mix it's impossible 100% but you can't make her respect your boundaries. You need to respect them though. Handle your side. Let the rest go. Learn to ignore what you can't control.

But when I have to enforce boundaries , I will automatically clash and will never be met with a logical response .

An exercise in futility.

You still have to learn this. You've come a long ways. Keep going.

[This message edited by Marz at 2:40 PM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

thank you.

Here is my greatest concern:

I’d say at the root of all this is the mother, I suspect a narcissist herself. She would have switched on and off love throughout her upbringing . There are many examples of what she told me about her childhood which now make sense.

The father, a softly spoken guy, himself a builder , buried himself in work. 14-16 hours at work everyday.

To escape the mother for sure.

So the only loving person in the household was never there.

My ex’s brother moved to Tasmania, about as far away from his mother as you can get. And he visits her maybe once a year. He is depressed and had at least one suicide attempt.

He is married to an extremely dominating woman, who wears the pants in that relationship .

So there is evidence of personality disorder and mental illness in two generations.

Where will that leave my children ?

And here comes my empath thought.

Do I need to try to fix my ex for the sake of my kids?

I can’t of course . But this is what worries me deeply.

I’d say my best bet is to be the sane and stable parent.

Yes, you want to be the safe, stable parent. Teach your children through your example on how to treat others with respect and love. Continually example to them what your expectations and goals for them when they are grown are. You have shown the depth of your empathy and class towards others through your threads. Let your children see how you'd like to see them behave when they are adults. Be positive with them. Focus on them and reinforce their positive behaviors. You got this.

As for your XW, grey rock her and parallel parent. Stay as detached as possible for your own sanity. Now is time for you to start living for you again.

Do I need to try to fix my ex for the sake of my kids?

About all you'll do if you try that is screw yourself up. Fixers tend to go down with the ship. Narcs drag you down with them.

Your time with your kids will be more focused so use the time to teach them what they need to know. When they get old enough sit them down and expain everything, etc of how this all transpired. In essence show them what a good normal life should be like.

My ex’s lawyer asked me for an additional $2600 in fees for work she did after the mediation.

My lawyer thought that was pretty bold.

I declined .

If her lawyer wouldn’t be so slow, my ex would have long have her undeserved payout.

I saw my ex when I picked up the kids.

Lovely new dress, very much revealed her décolleté.

I don’t mention it ; she was super angry, which was nice.

I guess she budgeted for a new dress but not for the legal fees.

She emailed later , again complaining that I’m mean and cold.

Good.

She then even emailed “ don’t be so stiff “

This is after an email earlier “ be nice “

Sadly for her, I’m not her emotional support poodle anymore.

I went to my psychologist , who felt I was over interpreting my role as the empath. She commented that covert narcissists are very cunning ; I shouldn’t be too hard on myself .

She then discharged me as she didn’t think I needed her help anymore

I asked her if she sees a lot of narcissists.

She says they only come to complain how unfair life is .

If she tells them that they are narcissists, they are usually happy with that .

She has never seen one with insight.

There you go

Your psychologist put a smile on my face.

😎..

She emailed later , again complaining that I’m mean and cold.

Good.

She then even emailed “ don’t be so stiff “

This is after an email earlier “ be nice “

Sadly for her, I’m not her emotional support poodle anymore.

So, the million dollar question is... did you reply to any of these emails?

In my experience (mother is a covert Nars) you can watch for signs that she is labeling your kids as the golden child (most likely the boy), and the scapegoat (girl). On the good side they are going to have a normal relationship with you and whom ever you marry down the road. I think this will help a lot.

Think about your/her different responses to her obvious ploys for attention (the day after pill and other sexual items sitting on the front seat during pick up) you reacted and an argument ensued between the two of you. Her showing up in a sexy outfit, all made-up. No reaction from you and she has a one sided argument via email. A show of indifference kills her. You are doing great.

Remember the less you say the less ammunition she has to use against you. Even the most innocent comment can be twisted into a declaration of war.

I emailed once back:

The way I chose to communicate with you is a consequence of your actions.

This got me this message from planet narc, which will remained unanswered :

I realise I have hurt you horrifically, and this is something that I never wanted to do. I am, once again, incredibly sorry, and I am trying to do the right thing by you and the children with our new lifestyle.

However, I see that you need more time to heal. You will not hear a peep from me unless a child is dying. I will put everything on the calendar as you wish.

Please don’t reply as I really do not deserve more of your punishing words.

Have a fun weekend with our children

Meaning:

I wanted an affair without you finding out.

If you are hurting, it’s your fault.

You must be hurting , since you are not together with someone as awesome as me.

I’m doing the right thing, so I’m the victim .

Don’t send me nasty messages, because the truth always hurts...

Well, hopefully she will stick to her promise.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 2:57 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

Holy crap "...You will not hear a peep from me unless a child is dying." I mean has she learnt nothing at all; that is way beyond callous. And this from the woman who recently texted you at 5:30 in the morning to tell you your son had a cold!!

Your bullshit translator is right on target. I am sure Freeme will be back to comment on that little gem of a response given her insight into the narcissistic mind of her mum.

Well at least you're on the less than 30 day countdown to your 6 December divorce date.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 5:30 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]

FYI

Narconians never keep their promises.