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So, been working hard. Started kayaking and running again to gain a wee bit of peace. Still having a very hard time. Thrown right back into my eating disorder mentality, HB definitely over, he is NOT interested in me at all, been over 2 1/2 months since he even held my hand. He will not discuss anything anymore period. I am still drowning.

So I texted WH yesterday “I’m not doing well Mr.MSB”

I got back...

C’mon MSB why, what’s triggering this now, today are we divorcing again. You know you are not the only person in this relationship that’s had to deal with a lot of shit,so you are not the only one suffering in this relationship...

.I asked how he has suffered and got the usual litany about me not paying enough attention to him while I was working three jobs and taking care of everything...And how I was mean to him...I apologized and said I allowed him to make me feel small and ugly...

He responded...”never made you feel small or went out of my way to make you feel ugly you did that on you own you are damaged.”

I indicated I was more concerned about his complete and utter lack of work as a WH and that we couldn’t just rugsweep 22 years of cheating...

Got back...”This whole drama is so old and I’m not in the mood for playing this game anymore. You read stuff about how you should act and feel about my mistake and then play it out like a loser who can’t think for herself. shit. I had every reason for talking to AP, I think you were glad we moved up here far away from my family and friends. You couldn’t stand me being anywhere and having fun because you always accused me of doing stuff. I’m so sick of you. Get off your fucking poor me self pity kick.”

I have removed some of the middle stuff and anything that might show who we are but the rest is copied right from the texts. The removed stuff was even uglier and it is pretty obvious he has completely rewritten our history. I mean COMPLETELY so that he is the hero for staying and I am a raving bitch. Poor poor Mr. MSB. So. Not much gray area there...

So. I am moving forward with what can only be described as an emotional divorce. I am not going to completely screw up my future life financially because of his choices. I have been over everything with a professional and staying is the best option. I am NOT interested in any type of romantic relationship in the future with anyone and have lived in a sexless affection-less marriage for at least 15 years. No sweat. We have never had any kind intellectual connection or had conversations beyond daily stuff so I will be no worse off.

I know the general mindset here is reconcile or leave but what about just living parallel lives and that is it. And unfortunately even if I detach completely emotionally the sad part is I doubt he will even notice or miss a deeper connection. Any advice about this type of arrangement? And no, he can’t date anyone else. He has no sex drive anyway and is too lazy to chase anyone anyway. And he is way too cheap to pay for sex. I’m not talking about an open marriage. Just a different arrangement with me no longer giving a fuck about what he thinks of me.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 5:53 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)]

I guess it could work if you can do it. The big question is, will you be happy? Is maintaining your current lifestyle more important than your happiness and self respect? This man is cruel to you. Can you continue to live with that?

My dad suggested this to me. I decided I couldn't do it.

And no, he can’t date anyone else.

How do you plan to stop him, especially since you want to emotionally detach? If he feels that, his wayward self will want to step out.

he is NOT interested in me at all, been over 2 1/2 months since he even held my hand. He will not discuss anything anymore period. I am still drowning.

This indicates a strong want of his love and approval, so how do you plan to get to detachment?

have lived in a sexless affection-less marriage for at least 15 years. No sweat.

Not no sweat. You were complaining about it in the previous ^^^ quote.

unfortunately even if I detach completely emotionally the sad part is I doubt he will even notice or miss a deeper connection.

More examples of you very much caring.

This whole drama is so old and I’m not in the mood for playing this game anymore. You read stuff about how you should act and feel about my mistake and then play it out like a loser who can’t think for herself. shit. I had every reason for talking to AP, I think you were glad we moved up here far away from my family and friends. You couldn’t stand me being anywhere and having fun because you always accused me of doing stuff. I’m so sick of you. Get off your fucking poor me self pity kick.

This stuff ^^^ he said to you is toxic. Your dialogue back and forth is toxic. Based on everything you said, you won't leave because you are still attached; that's why you keep complaining he is not into you and wouldn't notice, etc. But he is so cruel and awful that your wanting his attention is very worrisome and dysfunctional.

He will cheat again. Then what?

You seem to be staying in the M to win--control of the R, keeping him away from other women, hopium. Idk. I would only, only, only be convinced that you truly planned to detach if you said you'd be ok with him dating. That is what detaching looks like! If not, this is an arrangement made in DV hell. I am worried for you. You two are not good together. Let him go.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:55 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)]

I am living this parallel lives arrangement. It works for people our age, or at least for me it works. We spend quite a bit of time apart because I worked my butt off and now we have two homes and a RV. Soo, we are cordial. When we happen to be in the same place, I do the traditional stuff, cooking, cleaning, laundry. He continues to work because he derives self worth from providing financially. We do family things together with kids and inlaws. Holidays and celebrations. Nothing romantic, ever. That makes me uncomfortable.

When we're not together, who knows what hes doing or who hes doing it with. Occasionally he says something about being lonely, or his feelings, or something. I tune it out. The key to all of this is, I DONT CARE. But the trick is to not come out and say that. I dont need to be mean. I dont hate him. I just have my own life now, separate from him. Emotionally divorced.

The really sad part is I was really in love with him and happily ignorantly married before DDay. I thought we'd grow old together, two old people still holding hands.

cocoplus5nuts: It is not maintaining some amazing lifestyle, We are both working, lost everything about 3 years ago and I am 51 years old. It is about paying for my boys to go to college and not living in a shitty apartment when I'm old with no money for food etc. If I won the lottery tomorrow then all bets would be off. I have been surviving financial catastrophe for years and honestly can't face anymore right now.

OwningItNow: You are right. I still love him. I still wish I had a magic turn-back-infidelity wand to erase all this unfathomable ugliness and pain. I want all the stuff everyone wants when they get married...affection, caring, passion, tenderness, laughter, intimacy, deep talks, lazy mornings spent in bed, funny inside jokes, someone who thinks of you first, someone who catches you when you fall. I don't have that. I never had that with this man. I will have to live without it. So instead of engaging and trying to make him see me, I will not. I will enjoy my sons, my animals, my successes, my lovely little affordable house, and hopefully find peace.

It is not fair or logical to expect this man who has NEVER shown a whit of a deeper understanding of himself or anyone else to suddenly have the resources and skills to be the man he needs to be to really do the work necessary. He is not that guy. He will never be that guy. I cannot make him be that guy and he can't do it.

He probably will cheat again. You are right. I cannot stop him and I will not police him. I can't fall down that rabbit hole. I will not turn my life into some sort of battle of wits with my husband to see who can have secrets and unearth secrets. Every gesture, word, text, trip out of the house, conversation etc so on would be a moment of anxiety. I cannot do it. It will break my heart if he does but I hope I will not buckle under this time and nearly lose myself.

His cheating nearly did me in. I admit it. I was done. I wanted all the pain to stop. The only thing that stopped me from just ending everything was my boys. I have handled EVERYTHING in my life-rape, death of my amazing mother, multiple miscarriages, divorce, illness, caregiving my dying father and soldiered on but this vapid, undeserving, unthinking, selfish man nearly took me out.That makes me ashamed of my weakness. Enough.

I am going to do my very damndest to detach and move on with my own life and find joy if I can. I can't have this define me or color the rest of my life.

SMSA925: I am sorry you are living what I assume will be my life from now on. That seems spot on, accurate. If you check in with me in a few years I imagine our lives will be interchangable.

I too would really like something else and I do still love him but choices need to be made and this seems to be the one I need to live for now.

I agree. Right now you can let him go on your terms but eventually he will find another woman (or she will find him)who will decide the terms of the end of your relationship.

Thanksgiving2016: Maybe. maybe not. He is pretty lazy emotionally and never had to pursue any woman. Sad to say, his middle age 55 year old self, 60 pounds overweight, balding, and saddled with debt, 2 kids, and no prospects really isn't drawing them in like it used to. I'm the only one on the planet who still lights up when I see him because I still see that beautiful 18 year old boy he was when I first fell in love.

He has no game. He cheated with two exes he already knew, one for the 22 years of our marriage and before that so he didn't chase her. He cheated by text and phone where he did not have to "perform" because that area has not worked well for a good 15 years. Yes, I mean ER.

He is not motivated sexually, or I have never been able to get regular sex out of him. He is more talk than action and is often asleep on the couch by 8:30. So, who knows.

51 is young. You may have 30/40 years ahead of you. Today you are too wounded to date, but in a year you may be healed enough to see possibilities again. As long as you don’t allow him to verbally abuse you, and you can truly detach from him, go for it! There is a lot of life and beauty out there aside from romance!

This sounds like a slow and painful soul death. I think I’d take the freedom and peace in a shitty apartment over the toxicity and suffering you’ve illustrated in your post.

am going to do my very damndest to detach and move on with my own life and find joy if I can. I can't have this define me or color the rest of my life.

This is good.

51 is young. I'm 49. I thought you were in your 70s or beyond. You still have a lot of years left. Can you really see yourself spending the next 30+ like that. You deserve all those things you listed.

I don't think I said anything about an extravagant lifestyle. Sometimes it's good to downsize, especially for peace of mind.

I lived in limbo while my last child graduated...

My Wh said much of the same thing....I had issues...I was insecure....I should get over it...He did zero to heal this damage.

In other words, he took zero responsibility for destroying our marriage, and was continuing to be cruel and emotionally abusive to me...

I knew our marriage would end....It had ended...I needed some time for my kids to move on..

My mistake was that nothing stays the same...when you live distantly, the distance grows...the disrespect grows...the anger grows..the boundaries disappear....the cheating will continue...

We grew to hate each other...he decided to be abusive to me...and enjoyed cheating...he wanted me to know...

I thought I could live like this...at that level ...It got worse...much worse. a

I cant know if it would have turned out this way regardless, but it set a pattern....the D was ugly...he punished me in every way....he hates me so much...

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 8:21 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]

You are right. I still love him

What do you love about him?

Also, please read this book:

Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft.

It has changed many lives around here. Read it to the end, even if some of the incidents do not relate to your circumstances, it will help you to understand what is and has happened to you.

Please keep posting even if you get some responses that upset you. The responses that upset and trigger you are the MOST important to examine and figure out the why for your trigger.

I am glad you found us, and I hope you stick around.

Cancuncrushed, I thought about your situation when I read MSB. Her WH's comments sound narcissistically cruel. Isn't your H npd? I can't know for sure, but MSB's WH is saying some personally attacking and cruel things like an npd would say, and living with npd in a functional but detached way seems . . . unlikely. They turn cruel for sport.

Cancuncrushed, I thought about your situation when I read MSB.

This! I thought exactly the same thing. Cancrushed is walking the same path you are.

Actually NorthernMSB, so many things you are saying about your WH remind me of MalibuBayBreeze. I hope she shows up and responds to your thread. She is staying for just the same reasons you are.

The similarity between you three posters seems to be your cruel, unremorseful, most possibly npd spouses. It is tough to live with and love these selfish, entitled, cruel people.

MSB, is your WH a good father?

Wow. An in-house separation? The real question might be can you be happy in that reality? I've wondered something similar, if there could be a plan C, if I would be willing to cohabitate with my WH, for the convenience, or as a lesser of all other evils. I don't know, but I think it would become contentious over time, trying to transition to room mates, and I'd quickly start to resent him for letting us get to that point. Mine is a weak effort WH too, and it is a constant struggle to get him to put in the time I require. I keep checking in on him, being sure he's still up for this new arrangement, willing to put up with the fallout from his choices. He does get frustrated with the drama and the emotions and I used to get upset because he was upset, but now, a year wiser or just numb, I breathe. I call out his tone of voice, volume or frustration, and ask what's driving that really? It's suspect behavior, either hiding something or frustrated with his decision to stay together and work on repairing our marriage, or something he hasn't articulated yet. I ask the most basic question almost weekly, what are we doing here? Is this what we want? Are we both capable and willing to try? I have to remind him that this is a long painful process and his effort reflects his commitment. Your WH words seem to belittle the efforts to help you heal. This is not a fucking game, it's your life.

I think the tone of his answers to you says so much, and I keep thinking about Gottman's 4 Horses for doomed relationships and it looks like he's already given up. Or maybe he's still in his little world and hasn't yet rejoined yours. You deserve so much better. I can see my therapist's sad expression, and know he'd say your WH has not yet accepted responsibility for his actions and is trying to put the blame back on you, and until he acknowledges what he has done you cannot heal your marriage. Also, I get pissed when told my insecurities since the A are due to my childhood issues- sure, maybe, but irrelevant. I was doing great with my childhood baggage until he destroyed my trust. Direct cause and effect, his fault. Not my monkey, and he doesn't get to play that card with me.

Is there any foundation of friendship or companionship that would be worth saving or staying in the same home for? I made a list of things I liked about my WH, the reasons I like keeping him, as well as a list of the things I dislike and will no longer tolerate. I'd miss his friendship, our travel and concerts, our hikes and kayak rides, the fun projects we do together, the meals we cook as a team, the bonfires and music we love to share. We still enjoy each other's company, so staying makes sense. What does your list tell you? Living with a crappy roommate is hard, and with one who broke your world apart? Can you continue to live without the affection you deserve? There is a lot to consider with any option you pursue.

I highly recommend starting now, not giving a fuck what he thinks of you. He is showing you what you are worth to him. Point that out. Work on your best life with or without him and see how you feel. You have time to figure out what you need and what you deserve and what you can live with.

Hugs to you.

So much to answer and take in and unravel...

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me your thoughts and the benefit of your experiences.

Bestthing: 51 might seem "young" in years but right now I feel older than freaking time! I honestly do not ever ever see a romantic future, I have no interest in it and have always always been perfectly happy and content by myself. My WH always says you could set me down on a desert island and as long as I had my dogs and cats, and a huge stash of books I would be fine. He is not wrong. My sister and I (she is in even WORSE a relationship with her wife if that is possible) are going to eventually shack up as to old biddies with our pets and rock on the front porch together. ...That is plan B.

Adaira: You could be right but after the last 6 months of terrible revelations about WH extracurricular activities, my soul feels pretty shrivelled already. I do not want that future of struggle and financial shit. My father spent his whole life working as a very successful engineer including over 30 years in Libya running Mobil oil on the cost/budget side. My parents lived there for 15 years. Anyway, when the "Arab Spring" happened in 2010, my mother was already dead from lung cancer and my dad still working there. We thought he was dead for at least a week and managed to get him out through Morocco. He was allowed to take one small suitcase, everything else was left behind...his house, car, clothes, furniture, and all my mom's things, AND his entire bank account was seized, local and the one in London frozen indefinitely. He lost EVERYTHING at 72 years old. So, He lived with me for 5 years and then had a little apartment for a year about 5 minutes away and then had an awful health crisis and he is now in a nursing home 5 minutes from me. In Canada, Longterm care is subsidized and he is doing fine but without money your existence at that point is awful. I visit every day, he is slowly dying of bone cancer , and I do not want to be like that. ever. And my WH stupid selfish careless choices will NOT put me there.

cocoplus5nuts: I know 51 isn't ancient but I lost everything several years ago and at my age will certainly never have enough time to build up security for my future. I know you didn't say anything about extravagance. I just didn't want you to think I was holding onto some couch sitting bonbon eating life of luxury. I have a lovely LITTLE house I can afford easily and live simply. I love the simplicity.

cancuncrushed: My various "issues" are always handy to throw back in my face when we are arguing about something else entirely. I am not denying my eating disorder and the fact it is certainly a barrier to physical intimacy but have been brutally honest about it right from the first day. Eating disorders are similar to cheating in that they thrive in secrecy. You lie and hide. I didn't do that anymore by the time I married my husband and was not "active" anymore. He never once looked into what it was and how to be with someone who had an eating disorder, to this day he throws it in my face whenever convenient as my "fat issue". Not a fat issue per se, a control issue.

Weirdly enough, when I am in my mental cave of solitude and do not engage with him, things are reasonably peaceful. He is fine with no real conversation beyond fixing the vehicles or talking about what is going on with his work etc. It is when I step out into conversational realms of our relationship or disagree (conversationally) about something he is talking about such as the call in a hockey game or attitude of a politician it jumps to ugly fast. So I don't try most times. and it is peaceful.

Chrysalis123: Bought the book.. going to listen to it today while I work. Thanks for the recommendation. Why do I love him? He represents my entire life, or the last 37 years anyway. He is my first love. My first kiss. He was like some rare unicorn I would see throughout the years, hearing he was at a party or something and going just to see him. He was my cousin's best friend and would ask my cousin about me too. I wouldn't date him because he was an awful slut, star hockey player and ridiculously good-looking. he used women like kleenex and I strangely enough had too much pride to be disposable. He makes me laugh, and even better, I make him laugh. In the midst of a horrible argument I can throw in a comment that startles a genuine belly laugh out of him and he looks at me like I'm the most incredible person in the world. My knees still go weak a little when he comes in the room because he is so handsome to me. When he kisses me my stomach does that lovely curl almost every time. He works his ass off and is compulsive about taking care of the house stuff etc, sometimes too much lol. The three times in 23 years that he has actually opened up to me and we talked all night I was floored by how he felt, his fears, his genuine vulnerability. I hold those times and that man like a shield when he is a dick to me. He is startlingly gentle and caring when life really really requires it like when my mom died. He has been there for all my experiences, memories, highs and lows for over half my life. He is the first person I want to call and talk to when things go well or badly. And many other reasons.

OwningItNow: He is cruel and thoughtless and selfish and unfortunately not remotely self aware so cannot see flaws in his own thinking or fault in his actions. I have read at least 4 books on NPD and it doesn't fit. Fits a bit but not really. I think is just an arrogant selfish man who was put on a pedestal his whole life by his friends and family and never forced to face consequences of his own actions. If a woman didn't want him, he moved on to the next. If he was bored with something, he quit doing it and moved on to the next thing. If something went wrong, it was never his fault. He hates my need to dissect and analyze things to find reasons. He thinks when I ask a question about his opinion on something or his actions (to get a deeper understanding) it means I am telling him he is wrong.

He is tough to live with for all of us because he nit picks and will never ever let anything go. he makes us all feel stupid and has not been a good father. His criticism and strange need to make sure my boys know what a rock star athlete he was alienates them. It is an odd competition. And his treatment of me especially in the last 10 years was the nail in the coffin. i am not a perfect mother-workaholic, loud, high standards, etc- but I did everything for my boys and they know I love them and am so so proud of them. My eldest son has literally hated my husband since he was 13 or so. And since we caught WH cheating on Christmas Eve (he was the one who opened the naked boob text messages) he will not even be in the same room as my husband unless I am there or talk to him without being addressed first. He is moving out in a couple months and said he will not visit unless I am here and if anything ever happened to me he would never see WH again. Younger son is 17 and has a different personality and dislikes WH as well. LOVES when he is on nights and will not spend any time one on one with him. Both boys and I have an incredible close relationship which is thrown in my face that WH is an "outsider" and "no one listens to him" in the house. Honestly, he has created his own issues but thinks it is their (my) fault.