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SisterMilkshake: Fraternization has nothing to do with sex, it's about close personal friendships that could interfere with the chain of command as and are an implicit threat to the discipline and order of a military unit. The problem is that when an officer is responsible for sending others into harm's way, others in the unit will question the judgement of if one of their members is clearly "best pals" with their commanding officer and could refuse to obey orders. That would be a catastrophe for a fighting unit.

The fact is, until relatively recently, fraternization charges were pretty much all same sex because most units weren't co-ed.

I would have to report her up her chain of command.

That is a huge no-no in the military -

I'd blow up her world....like she blew up mine.

@NotInMyLife Thank you for clearing that up for me, NIML. I have never had reason to look into fraternization in the military and the times I have read about it, it always had to do with actual sexual acts.

I guess my rush was more so my oldest daughters semester is about to end and switching schools would be easier at the end if a semester vs middle.

I also would like to burn her world to the ground. Have even thought about reaching out and telling her as such but I am also a huge empath and don't want to ruin husbands career completely at the moment unless he pushes me to that, which I said if anything comes out of this polygraph, he is done.

His STD screening has come back all negative. Since I'm a nurse, I made sure I got the full report to read it in detail. Still awaiting my results.

I am in conversations with the polygraph examiner currently and we are figuring out the logistics to set up an appointment.

He still denies anything physical.

He also denies that no one suspected anything or at least told him and unfortunately, none of the people he was deployed with is at this base. I know of some names of the guys he was deployed with but more than likely they would cover for him like she had. Most live in southwest region, to include her. I do believe that there were plenty of people that noticed but never said anything.

If this will effect your husband's livelihood, too, you might not want to report her. I totally want you to burn down her world, too. I can't stand unremorseful OW's. As far as we know, she isn't remorseful. I would assume she isn't.

Thinking about you and your children needing your WH's financial support and if you destroy his career, you will be hurting you and your children's financial support. You don't have to rush into that decision, either. As far as your children's school, it is tough changing schools regardless of when you do it. I really would suggest you slow down and give yourself more time to process and see how things play out. I'm still not sure of when your d-day was and I feel it was relatively recent.

I make really great money in what I do. I make more than him so I'm not concerned about financials.

D-day was October 13th. 30 minutes after I picked him up from the airport from his deployment.

I can only speak from my experience, and I am sure others will have other opinions. When I was barely two months post d-day, I was not thinking with clarity. I was a mess, actually. You are really very new to this trauma.

IDK. As much as I was angry and hurt by my FWH's infidelity (he had an LTA, you can read my story on my profile page, if interested) I really didn't want to ruin him. The OW, yes. But, he is the father of our children. I know that our WS's don't seem to think of them, but that doesn't mean a BS should not. I am an empath, too. I don't feel you would feel very good about yourself in the future if you ruined his career. Could be wrong, of course.

I just feel that some rush into doing things that really are not in their, or their childrens, best interests in the long term. Wishing you peace, serenity and discernment on your healing journey, MentalSeeSaw, and in the decisions you make.

Hi MS, I gave a short rundown to people close to me about your situation: a retired Air Force Officer whose last duty station was as Commandant of Cadets at an ROTC unit, and a former Army Enlisted member who transitioned to Warrant Officer.

Both are appalled and disgusted at Officer OW's behavior. They also independently said your husband would not face anything more than a "slap on the wrist" if it all came out. Certainly nothing career altering or ending as he was in the subordinate position. Not trying to push you into reporting. I just wanted to pass along their experience and knowledge.

I hear you about being empathetic, I am an INFJ, the Empath in the Meyers Briggs types, and we are still empathetic even to those who have hurt and wronged us.

Were you able to find any civilian attorneys who caught your eye for a free consultation? Nothing wrong with having the information, even if you never file.

As a former Army Officer I would recommend that you report this to the chain of command. Don't think for a minute that if she starts to feel like this is going to come out she won't throw your husband under the bus and try to turn it around and make it seem like he is the bad guy. While stationed overseas I witnessed a senior officer (male) carrying on a consensual affair with a junior officer (female) that was in his chain of command. He was scheduled to rotate back to the States and broke things off with her. She then found out that he was married and that is when the shit hit the fan. She went to the chain of command and claimed that he coerced her, put her in positions where she felt like she had to have sex with him or it would negatively effect her career. He was arrested at the airport getting on the plane to come to the states. He was charged with multiple violations of the UCMJ. There were multiple witnesses that testified at the court martial that the relationship was consensual. He was found not guilty on the most serious charges of sexual assault, but was found guilty on multiple other counts of conduct unbecoming of an officer, misuse of government resources, etc. It was enough to send him to Ft. Leavenworth for a few years.

Bottom line is that she has no right to continue leading troops and needs to be held accountable. If you provide all of the evidence, your husbands career would typically not be in trouble. Usually he would be transferred to another unit and that's about it.

SisterMilkshake: your story is insane. I'm sorry you've had to keep dealing with all of that. Holy buckets.

PolkadotTulip: I have actually heard that the enlisted member would get worse punishment over the officer. But again, that was with enlisted members only that I have asked.

blknight: She is currently not his supervisor or in his command. Upon the deployment ending they each went back to their original bases. She is no longer his superior. But I have screenshots of messages where she has reached out to him multiple times. Sending pictures of herself and initiating text conversations after their return.

The culpability for fraternization is always on the higher ranking service member, no ifs, ands or buts.

From the military's viewpoint, adultery is an issue of undermining the peace and comfort of family life, which affects a soldiers ability to focus on the mission. When an unmarried service member takes up with a married service member, the primary concern is the the unmarried soldier not respecting the marriage and disrupting an intact family. A single officer involved with a married enlisted man is doubly culpable. Your husband would get a reprimand, she would be in big trouble.

Back up everything you have onto two thumb drives.

Your best bet would be to find a civilian lawyer who does a fair amount of work with military cases.

So, after a long discussion with my sister, she has convinced me that contacting this woman is a good idea. To see what she has to say or if I can get more info from her. Not go at her like a ton of bricks but more so take the "please tell me what you know" approach.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

The polygraph exam is set for January. He will pay out of pocket for the exam.

I think it might make me feel a little better for her to also know that the lies that my husband told her about me are untrue and that she indeed fucked up hardcore and I know about it. I'm not sure if I'm thinking rationally though right now or if I am all pumped up and confident because of my sisters "go get em!" motivational speech she just gave me.

Why would you believe anything she had to say? You don't believe your WH and you know him. She has every reason to lie and, imo, will.

No, I don't feel it is a good idea, but you do what you feel you must do, of course.

I hope you saved evidence of their relationship. As others have said: there's a very bright line between officers and enlisted.

Don't talk to her or warn your husband.

The OW will only admit to what you know - and then minimize or deny.

Talking to the OW will warn her and give her a chance to discredit you to her commanding officer (as jealous, crazy etc).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:16 PM, December 21st (Saturday)]

I did. I have an entire folder saved in multiple places with everything on there.

I wouldn't bother contacting the OW. She will downplay everything because she knows she's the one with more to lose, career wise. She'd be the biggest idiot on the planet to admit to anything. It would also tip her off that she could be in deep shit, in which case she may go on the offense at work.

I'm torn about whether or not to report her to her command. In an ideal world, I would report her. Blow up her world. I agree that she shouldn't be in a position of leadership. I would be concerned about my CH's career, though, as it would financially impact me and my children. If that's not a concern for you, than maybe go for it. However, even if you make enough money to not really worry, his ability to support his children could be affected.

My fch is an officer. He had an A with a civilian who was not connected to the military at all. His A didn't directly affect the functioning of his unit. I could've sued the MOW for alienation of affection. Ultimately, I chose not to because I didn't want to risk damaging my fch's career, not for him, but for me and my children. I was a SAHM and totally financially dependent on him at the time.

That being said, it may be that this would not really affect your CH's career since he is the subordinate. I think that would depend somewhat on his rank. If he's a private, he's probably pretty safe. If he's a NCO, that could be a different story

Speaking as a retired Soldier (2013), there is a lot of information in this thread about what should be regarding fraternization, but not necessarily what is.

Punishing an enlisted person via UCMJ is very, very easy if he is E-6 or below. If they were have found to have fooled around while on duty, he won't get nailed for fraternization, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts they will still get him for dereliction of duty. Nearly any circumstance will find him in the wrong as well. Furthermore, adultery is also punishable under UCMJ.

If he is E-7 or above, he can receive a letter of reprimand, which if from a full bird colonel or higher, will end his career progression if near retirement, and will eventually get him involuntarily separated before retirement if not.

In my experience, punishment for officers was effectively a reassignment unless it was significant (assault, etc.) while the enlisted people lost rank do to non-judicial punishment via UCMJ.

What is your husband's rank? What was his position in relation to hers? She sounds like a second lieutenant based on your description.

Look...I'm not suggesting you shouldn't proceed with informing the chain of command. Just know that he will almost certainly experience potentially career ending repercussions. If you are okay with it, then proceed.

My husband is an E-5. Have been in for 12 years. She is a butter bar, 2nd Lt.

She was his direct supervisor. She was Intel and he is communications.

The thought of reporting her comes and goes.

I've decided not to talk to her right now as I don't want to tip her off to think she is about to be in trouble. Instead, I want it to hit her like a ton of bricks.

Unfortunately, as an empathetic person, I would feel guilty for damaging my husbands career. He deserves to be woke the fuck up about this. I have thought about even reaching out to his current supervisor (enlisted) and asking him his thoughts as he is currently the acting first shirt in this case.

I worry that there is a potential still for someone else to report them. Based off what I've been told she had actively been also perusing one or two other relationships with a PJ and bravo guy. She stopped the pursuit of one of them and the guy did not take it lightly apparently. So he could even report the relationship in retaliation.

Speaking from experience, don’t talk to her. They tnd to lie to cover their a$$. You probably won’t get the closure you need from her. I am sorry you are going through this.

First, I don't understand why you would care so much about his cheating, lying ass and his career if you don't need the money. That doesn't sound like empathy. That sounds like something unhealthy, to me. I'm an empath. If it weren't for the money, I wouldn't have cared about my fch's career.

Onto reporting the officer, I asked my fch, who is a Lt. Col. in the US Marine Corps. His opinion was that the officer is held more accountable for fraternization. The enlisted person might get counseled, but that's it. No punishment, loss of rank or pay, or anything like that.

As fireside said, this is all opinion and conjecture. I get the sense from my fch that fraternization is taken more seriously than adultery. When I was trying to decide what to do in my sitch, I read a lit of stuff online about adultery in the US military. What I determined was that adultery is usually only prosecuted as a tack on to other charges unless it had an obvious direct impact on the safety of the military.

I'm terrible with equating paygrade to rank. How many steps is an e5 away from a 2nd lt.? The rule is that you can socialize one rank down and one rank up. So, a 2nd lt. is allowed to socialize with a master sergeant or gunny or something like that. (I can never keep all those sergeants straight. )