SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Does anyone have any information on this? My wife has it.

You can google and find a lot, there are some books, and there are even some communities on Reddit you can join.

As I recall, there are also some good resources on YouTube.

Beyond that, I'm no expert except to say that if this attachment theory thing is to be believed, my recent ex-girlfriend was also a classic case of the "avoidant attachment" style. It was something we talked about in our last few months together...and once she looked into it, she could see it.

She has a history of failed relationships, intimacy/attachment issues, a wake of hurt, angry men and "things just not working out." She would describe herself as someone who "sabotages" relationships without knowing why. Her history is this over and over and over.

In our relationship, we would go through intense periods of really close bonding and extremely positive times, and then a "pulling-away" that would last until everything came to a head, and then the cycle would repeat.

She does have a history of CSA and some other FOO issues that are not good.

At the same time, I'm on an infidelity website (again) for a reason; she also has boundary issues with men, sometimes *uses* men, and sometimes cheats. When those things are in play, it can be quite empowering for someone to exhibit what we would call "wayward behaviors" around here.

So...avoidant, or just actively in an affair? A lot of the symptoms are the same. Maybe they go hand in hand, too. Maybe they play off each other. I dunno.

So there's a little bit of my experience. What sorts of things have you seen in your wife related to this?

[This message edited by Okokok at 5:19 PM, May 15th (Friday)]

Okokok...

WE would have great sex and then she would withdraw from any emotional and physical contact.She would feel a connection with me with sex and that scared her. So much so that she would have zero desire for sex for sometimes a month or more. I would be left begging for sex. She would lash out at me calling me broken and perverted for even thinking of having sex more than once a week! She says that connection scared her and she would retreat. With her affairs she could control any and all interactions. Her online affairs had zero connection other than she was getting off to the videos and photos that the men where sending to her of themselves. The diagnosis is from her IC

Just as an fyi: from an online source, but other sources with corroborate.

Attachment describes the bond that develops between a child and a primary caregiver (birth parent or other caregiver) in the first few years of life. This interaction creates the foundation for how we interact in our adult relationships. It is a crucial framework for understanding adult relationships and dating. Attachment styles remain fairly stable throughout the lifespan, but can be changed with influences from a healthy, or unhealthy relationship, therapy, and self-awareness.

Often, people with anxious attachments and avoidant attachments will end up together in relationships. The anxious person will feel perpetually anxious and unfulfilled, wondering why their partner isn’t meeting their expectations for commitment and intimacy. They often feel like they aren’t good enough for this type of partner to love them. The avoidant will withdraw and feel a sense of anxiety that they are being suffocated, or pushed into something they don’t want in the relationship, as the anxious person expresses a need for more closeness or commitment.

Many therapists see cheating as a form of avoidant attachment style, especially serial cheaters. But the real issue one needs to consider is above ^^^^. Did you marry an avoidant because you are an anxious (CoD, as one personality example) style? If so, the R is a distancer/pursuer and both people need to stop. We should not chase affairs for validation, and we should not chase spouses for validation.

If she's avoidant, she can work on herself. But if she's avoidant, why did you want an avoidant partner? You should do some work on yourself to figure that out. Let her worry about doing her own work.

FF,

The book Attached goes into great detail on the 3(?) different styles if I recall and will likely give you insights to yourself as well.

There is a quite lengthy quiz that helps identify.

It was an eye opener for me when I was dating someone a few years ago. He was quite high on the avoidant end.

Good luck.

Thanks Annie... I had known for sure she is an IA intimacy anorexic

Owning it now

I am beggining to think that our 5 year dating period may have been a whole lot of fake truth from her. She wanted to get away from her parents type B lifestyle and was very very connected with me until we tied the knot... "The anxious person will feel perpetually anxious and unfulfilled, wondering why their partner isn’t meeting their expectations for commitment and intimacy. They often feel like they aren’t good enough for this type of partner to love them." While I do have anxiety, I dont think I wonder why she doesn't fulfill me. I do feel like I am good enough for her ( well until her affairs came to light, now I have the ugly comparisons, but that is another matter). I was attracted to her for her drive, her ambition, her self starting, her confidence, her goals and her hot looks I have learned though, that what I like the most about her is also what I fear the most about her. Her drive. She can run right over me and other without even knowing it.

There is a wonderful book by Milan & Kay Yerkovich called How We Love. In it, they talk about all the typical attachment/love styles, as well as how each individual can both work on themselves AND understand how their spouse attaches/loves.

My wife is the avoider and she would have denied, denied, denied that until we read the book. That was about 2 years ago. She still has those tendencies, but she does a better job at recognizing when she falls into the old patterns. I also see/recognize when she is making those small changes/adjustments and do my best to acknowledge that effort (as it is virtually impossible with the avoider because they don't generally do hard things).

This has been the thing that I have had to be the most patient with. Avoiders (at least, my wife's version of an avoider) find it difficult to make changes because they often try to avoid the things that they have not "perfected". It can be very frustrating being on the other side of that (not that I'm telling you something you don't already know).

Captain Rogers...

I will add that book to my list. Thank you

As usual, my H and I do not fit into the norm. I have been told that I have an avoidant attachment style. Don't know if my H has an anxious attachment style. He has not been evaluated for that. He did say that part of the reason he cheated was because he thought I didn't love him anymore. He didn't feel good enough. He thought I was rejecting him.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 11:31 AM, May 16th (Saturday)]

CaptainRogers, I have that book and the companion workbook. My IC suggested it for me and my H to work through. It's not happening now because I'm tired of his stupid shit, but I still plan to read the book.

I bought the audio book and will listen to it this weekend. I may also purchase the book and workbook

In my experience and research, this is where FOO comes in. Poor emotional parenting does damage when we are young, whether we realize it or not. We can often look at our spouse, especially post-cheating, and see issues in their family. Distant, dismissive, manipulative, inconsistent, smothering, cold--stuff like that. Being raised by people like that (even one because the other parent was most likely CoD since they stayed and allowed the other parent's poor relationship style. And CoDs are anxiously attached which is why they do so much and allow so much) so being raised in that household almost guarantees you will end up with dysfunctional style. How could you not? You saw no example of healthy, happy, supportive interactions.

And if you are raised by a narcissist, it's a certainty that you will struggle. A narcissist like my mother (father is classic CoD looking the other way like he did with his own mother) did not and could not give me consistent and supportive attention and emotional support. I learned how to make her happy out of desperation, and I developed a very anxious style that gravitated towards avoidant types because it felt comfortable to chase approval. However, narcissists also raise avoidant children who are very good at creating distance in the R. This makes them feel comfortable and not in vulnerable danger.

They become:

Workaholics

Cheaters

Drinkers

Hobby obsessed

Loners

Cold

Complainers and rejectors

Extreme church involvement

Judgmental

Controlling

Abusive

Anything that keeps plenty of space in the R. Narcissists do not raise healthy children due to the narcissist's flawed importance in a child's life and their smothering yet cold love.

This is also the effect that lacking in affection marriages can have on kids. The lack of warmth and affection between the parents breeds a lack of safety for the children. They do not see warm and supportive love and do not feel emotionally safe and secure. Those kids too will develop a poor relationship style that causes problems down the road.

My sister's style is anxious. She married a workaholic who puts her last on his To Do list, always busy with work. She, however, thinks she has a great life because she is wealthy and he hasn't cheated. She is always alone and lonely. It is very sad because her life didn't have to be this way, so sad and empty. She has been on antidepressants since I don't even know when.

My brother is an authoritarian, controlling, always right, condescending replica of my mother. Who always joked about feeling unloved as the third and only boy. Tells a lot of funny stories like, "I tried to find a baby picture of me once for school. Mom and I kept looking. Nope, none! I told you that I was the invisible child!" His new wife is very sweet and very CoD. I wish her luck.

And me, I have been in and out of abusive relationships my entire life. Here's something weird but true. I was anxious in all of my Rs before IC, but after years and years of IC, I have moved toward avoidant. Why? I am really uncomfortable being vulnerable as I find people too messed up to trust 92% of the time. I am getting much, much better. But I am still working on that ability to be vulnerable and safe, OR maybe it's that I will never be able to be vulnerable until I surround myself with better people. (Most likely the truth.)

This is a very, very important journey of discovery, although the Whys are not found here. Your WW being avoidant just means she is messed up and has FOO issues, it doesn't say WHY she is messed up. And it certainly doesn't fix it. That is where the work comes in. Change is super hard and is a lifelong process. But looking at FOO helps you both to strip a lot of stuff away.

Everything that I have read says that secure attachment attract to secure attachment. They have good pickers. When one partner's attachment style is a mess, so is the other's. A yin yang situation. Their dysfunction balances each other. Water seeks its own level, so we always have our own work to do. Always.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:49 PM, May 16th (Saturday)]

Owningitnow

I need a couple things defined

FOO

CoD

FOO = family of origin

CoD = codependent, codepend

ence

narcissists also raise avoidant children who are very good at creating distance in the R. This makes them feel comfortable and not in vulnerable danger.

This was my reaction to my narcissistic mother. I had finally let my guard down with my H. I thought he was safe. Turned out he wasn't. I'm back to my avoidant attachment. I refuse to let myself be vulnerable with him again. I also have no interest or desire in finding another relationship.

Jesus...

I just saw this. I went online and read about it. I looked at the questions to answer to see if you think your partner may be avoidant.

Checked every box.

I was happy to read that with help, this can be improved.

The problem that immediately comes to my mind is this...if the person is avoidant, and the way to work on it is therapy, which requires entrenchment...WTF do you do about that?

Case in point...through all our problems, the one thing that ALMOST helped us was Retrovaille. Because you write your feelings, and your partner reads but does not provide feedback to what you write. So far so good.

But when, down the road, we were beginning the actual problem solving part of the program, he refused. Because it involved actual back and forth...connection.

Sorry if this was a threadjack.

Just wondering how to address it when suggested therapy requires addressing it rather than avoiding it.

As with everything else, there are a multitude of layers that need peeled back, all of which happen in Their own time, WhatsRight.

For my wife, though she is better than she used to be, she will still shut down conversations she finds to be uncomfortable. Sometimes it's a subtle change of topic in a conversation. Sometimes she physically leaves the room in the middle of a conversation, and sometimes she still tries to steamroll a "conversation".

Overall, it is (and will be for the foreseeable future) a work in progress.

So, what do you think happens to "trigger" this?

When dating and early on in our marriage, my FWH and I were joined at the hip. Very close. "Soul Mates".

Long endless conversations. Overlapping dreams.

When kids came, it changed.

So is this "avoidant attachment" already there, and strife / stress / issues put it into overdrive?

Or is it something that a dysfunctional marriage can conjure?

I am sorry for the thread jack, FF01, but to address:

WhatsRight, your WH is obviously avoidant based on all of his qualities in your posts. You are obviously anxious based on all of your qualities. Avoidants and anxious almost always partner up.

To use my H and myself:

He was raised with avoidant FOO. It's a "we do not discuss unpleasant stuff" family. He is so avoidant that he didn't (until IC) even THINK about difficult things! Totally avoids painful thoughts.

My family was always catering to my NPDish mom who held us as emotional hostages. I got used to performing, doing, and pleasing to get a positive reaction from her. (Trying to counter all the put downs, insults, and snark she dished out at other times.)

At first my WH and I were really compatible; we still are. BUT, as an R moves on, partners move toward their lifelong roles. He started pulling back a few years into our M because we were so enmeshed in life and such. What did my anxious self do? Perform more, try harder, ignore more of my own needs.

Our movement toward full avoiding (him) and full CoD helping, trying, fixing took several years and many problems. By then I could see that the pattern I thought I had avoided (attracting to losers. Lol) had actually remained! My H STILL needed fixing! I couldn't believe it.

The solution, WhatsRight, is not what you want to hear: it's you doing less. It's as simple as that. The balance returns when the CoD does less because the Avoidant has to engage more. They finally feel safe to invest a little more.

Back to you, FireFighter01 (although I am hoping talk of Relation Styles and FOO is helpful to you):

Here's my current thought, but many people bristle at this. If this is a cheater site (it is) and cheating is the problem (it is) then what does it say that 88% of this website is filled with Betrayed Partner posts and not Cheater posts? Does it say "Fixers"? Does it say "Anxious Style"? Does it say "Codependent"?

I say Yes.

The fact, FireFighter01, that you are here posting and trying to understand and work with your wife when SHE did the cheating and should solve it says "You have an Anxious Attachment Style" and want to fix her. It says that you are preoccupied with saving the R, an Anxious Attachment attitude. You should work on that, as I said to WhatsRight. The websites on Anxious/Avoidant will tell you--Anxious Style Types need to learn to self-soothe and calm themselves instead of clinging to (a.k.a. fixing) their relationship if they want Avoidants to engage. They need to learn the art of independence and self-trust. They need to learn to be alone so that they can be a good partner.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:57 PM, May 17th (Sunday)]

P.S. Avoidants don't ask for help or want to fix. Anxious Attachment always ask for help because they are obsessed with fixing.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:03 PM, May 17th (Sunday)]