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fucking pressure of being told that some combination of those choices that they have to make are somehow going to be seen as an overall indictment of their fucking masculinity

Why couldn't there then be some sort of stop sign put into JFO, like in Wayward Side, with a clear message to new BS' to use it if they don't want to hear unhelpful/harsh comments?

Then people will know to stay out if they can't think of anything but unhelpful/harsh comments.

Those that post through the stop sign get removed, just like in Wayward Side, with the mod saying "HELPFUL ONLY" instead of "WS ONLY".

Then people will know to stay out if they can't think of anything but unhelpful/harsh comments.

Those that post through the stop sign get removed, just like in Wayward Side, with the mod saying "HELPFUL ONLY" instead of "WS ONLY".

cheatstroke,

What is the motivation to post something you know is harsh or isn’t going to be helpful?

We have guidelines for that:

FLAMING & SHAMING: Please refrain from attacking or shaming, publicly or by using the SI.com Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others. This includes members and non-members.

We try to step in when things get too out of hand. Unfortunately we do miss some of it as we have our own lives we are living with jobs and family. We welcome members to bring these incidents to our attention. Some of the language skirts the guideline and I agree that some people need a more firm approach, but that’s not what we are talking about here.

RIO

I consider myself a “you need to take action” type poster on JFO. In my early years here on SI I had other good-hearted people that chastised me for being too direct and firm. Every now and then I would post the mods asking if I was going too far, and sometimes I would run a reply by them just to be sure it wasn’t crossing some inflammatory border. The G/Mods never saw reason to tone me down.

At that time, it was customary to start hard words with phrases like “Warning – this is a 2x4”.

I believe I have been constant with my advice. I still apply IMHO the same level of pressure and still insist the BS needs to take action. I still believe that there are two good paths out of infidelity – R or D. I think I can claim that there is not a single instance where I have suggested a poster stay in limbo.

Yet I’m considered by many of the BTW posters as weak, offer bad and dangerous advice and an enabler of infidelity. For many guys like me and Sisoon are the poster-boys (poster-posters?) of much of what they see as SI’s biggest fault. Mainly because I think R is possible from any situation as long as both the BS and WS fully commit to it.

When a poster comes along and shares his spouse is cheating but that most of all they would want to R then 20 posts telling him it isn’t possible won’t really help. In fact, I think they contribute to the too-many one-post stories we have. The posters that come and are overwhelmed by the hard (albeit probably realistic) advice and flee to other forums or worse; carry their pain alone.

For someone taking a life-altering decision won’t it make more sense to base the decision on logic/emotion rather than emotion/emotion? Isn’t our help and guidance more likely to work if we get the posters ear and attention and keep him listening?

There is a difference between: “There is no way you can ever reconcile. Do you really like the taste of shit-sandwiches” and “To reconcile certain things need to be in place, if they aren’t then R isn’t realistic and D is the only path out of infidelity”. Is one a weaker message than the other?

The key word here is “message”. One statement might be louder, but which one is more likely to be read and understood and accepted by the recipient? Which one is more likely to get a response, creating a dialogue where the possibly inevitable path of D is eventually reached, or maybe even a realistic base for R?

It goes further: The angrier posters here often offer advice that can cause more damage than good.

“Throw her out” is a classic, possibly getting the OP taken away in cuffs with a domestic abuse charge, leaving the WS with temporary residence and even a restraining order. “Go for full custody because he/she is a cheating XXXX” when we all know it’s not likely to happen and will only run up legal costs. Just like we might build a suggestion to reconcile on realty then let’s also build the suggestion to divorce on reality.

Maybe the saddest part is that you don’t have to search much to see that many of the hard-liners discuss what’s going on here on other sites. Some wear the fact they are banned here as a badge of pride. Some come here and throw stones and then scamper off letting their friends know they caused damage here. Posters in pain are mentioned and their weaknesses openly discussed. It’s more like a gang of 10-year old boys showing off who dared to throw dog-shit on the principal’s lawn. I can’t help but wonder at the motivation of those that behave this way. Are they here to help, or are they here to feed their egos?

With that in mind I take great pride in being one of the poster-posters of all that’s “wrong” with SI.

(edited for stoopid grammar mistakes)

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:24 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

We have guidelines for that

But the guidelines don't seem to be working, and "witches" and their BS are getting burned.

When Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich Agreement on Sep 30, 1938, he basically did so because he thought it would keep Hitler from attacking Great Britain and the rest of Europe. He thought a signed piece of paper brought Great Britain "peace for our time" and declared everyone should "Go home and get a nice quiet sleep".

Did it work? No, Hitler's tanks rolled into Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Why didn't it work? Because a piece of paper wasn't going to stop Hitler. That required a mechanized solution - British airplanes.

The guidelines here are like Chamberlain's piece of paper. They don't do anything to stop the attacks.

They need a mechanized solution - a stop sign.

Reading Bigger's last post about getting with the Mod's to see if he was too harsh on a comment is pretty insightful.

Something to think about on this thread. I've been a member here for three yrs (but lurked for additional 2-3 more), and from my perspective the Mod's do a fantastic job of policing this site.

With that said, if the Mod's see something that is out of line (or a poster alerts them to a specific comment) they step in and:

1) remind people to be kind and respectful

2) remind people that this isn't helping the person who came here seeking advice

3) ban them from the section if the hurtful comments continue

4) band them from the site if the poster doesn't get in line

People going back and forth on this BTW topic isn't going to change anything for the most part. It's the internet for crying out loud. Why not just leave things up to the owners and the Mod's of this site to set posters straight when they're being disrespectful or hateful.

Why not just leave things up to the owners and the Mod's of this site to set posters straight when they're being disrespectful or hateful.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Setting posters straight when they're being disrespectful or hateful happens after the fact, AFTER the BS has been traumatized by seeing the post.

It's like punishing the drunk driver after the accident. What's that going to do for the injured? The damage is already done.

Might be a good idea for all original posters to be asked upfront if they are ok with hearing vulgar language and also if they are ok with hearing R suggestions .

If someone wants to hear about R other Bs s dont get to shame them for it

Personally i think well intentioned vulgarities should be ok if the original poster consents to it . Every online site has its own rules on that

But even in those threads i think if the insults are too genderised someone should make it clear that the insults are not intended towards women as a group.

Great points by Bigger on not encouraging behavior that can only hurt the Bs s own legal cause .

Why not just leave things up to the owners and the Mod's of this site to set posters straight when they're being disrespectful or hateful.

They do - reluctantly. When a poster ignores repeated reprimands he get's banned. A badge of honor they brag about elsewhere. It then takes immense effort for the mods to ensure they don't come back hiding behind a new user-name.

The guidelines here are like Chamberlain's piece of paper. They don't do anything to stop the attacks.

They need a mechanized solution - a stop sign.

Setting posters straight when they're being disrespectful or hateful happens after the fact, AFTER the BS has been traumatized by seeing the post.

Cheatstroke, even when a Stop Sign is used in the Wayward forum, it doesn't initially stop the OP from seeing a comment left by a BS. True, we will go in and edit the comment to WS Only, but that's only after we either notice a BS posted it or somebody notifies us. The same scenario would apply in JFO, so it wouldn't prevent the BS from seeing the post.

There have been quite a few references on this thread about posters who hate women. Not questioning this at all.

Is this thread going to go on and on debating this subject or are the people who are complaining about it looking for solutions?

I don't think anyone on here is going to convince these BTW haters to be more kind or to have a change of heart. If they hate women they hate women (despite how F'd up that is).

You know what could be done however, is for these women haters to be pointed out to the Mod's (show them their hateful comments) and to then ban them from the site.

I'm specifically talking about the people who numerous people on this thread are saying there's "hate" women members.

That's a solution to get rid of haters (of women) who come here. Leave it to the Mod's to determine if their comments are banned worthy.

As for the harsh comments that are spewed to a BH or BW who come here seeking wisdom, yes the harsh comment has done its damage before a Mod can try to straighten things out, but again this is a forum on the internet, and there's ALWAYS going to be haters and harsh comments.

Isn't this where it makes sense for other posters to chime in to the new poster to let them know there's going to be some comments from posters that will be hard to read and that they should, "take what helps and leave the rest" comes in?

There's no perfect solution to any of this, but steps can (and from what my experience shows here at SI are being done) to try and minimize the harsh comments and haters.

The people who want to keep going on and on about this might want to check themselves. Do you have solutions or are you here to bash the way the owners and Mod's handle things here?

I think they do a pretty damn good job here but if you don't like how they do things you know you can always leave.

Edited: spelling

[This message edited by Booyah at 10:53 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

it wouldn't prevent the BS from seeing the post

But it may prevent a BS from making the post. Seeing the Stop Sign would make people think before posting because they might get banned. That seems to keep people out of the Wayward Side Stop Signs for the most part.

Also, software has gotten WAY more sophisticated since the early 2000's when the site started.

There is content-control software, comment moderation systems where you create a list of "blacklisted" words that filter out comments, spam filters, etc.

These could be set to only engage when the Stop Sign is on.

Booyah, good point about solutions or venting.

My goal is to persuade by argument. Yeah, I know - I'm hopelessly romantic.

I hope someday to write with as much clarity as Bigger shows again and again.

My assumption is most of the BTW crowd are men. I have a couple questions and theories. I haven't seen addressed in this thread. Maybe they aren't relevant. If not, MY BAD!

I haven't been here long enough to know, so I am asking the old timers. Is this BTW crowd growing in recent years? Or seem more prevalent? I see many new male members that post some awful 2x4's or just hate filled posts. But then disappear. Almost as if this is their only outlet to voice their pain. Unfortunately they do it by attacking someone elses WS, or a perceived weak BS (probably someone they see a lot of themselves in). So essentially they are yelling at themselves and don't realize it!

Could this be due to some recent culture and social changes? Maybe men are stepping into SI more than in the past, because it seems more acceptable now? But somehow still bringing caveman like thinking with them? (Some of us are very slow learners)

Outlets/help/support for men dealing with infidelity appear to be few and far between. Specifically in my area, there are multiple IRL support groups for women dealing with betrayal trauma and infidelity. But not one of those groups allows men to attend. Guess how many male oriented support groups exist near me....zero.

What I am getting at is, no IRL outlet, pent up anger, and internet anonymity....create a perfect storm for hurt people to say hurtful things with no recourse.

The BTW crowd almost pushed me away from here. Telling me I might not be my daughters dad really hit hard. I wasn't ready for that so early after DDay.

Oh, Neanderthal, I am so sorry that someone was so insensitive to you when you first arrived. I am glad they didn't chase you away.

As an "old timer" I will share my experience here at SI and the changes I have seen.

When I first joined it was overwhelmingly many, many more female members and fewer active male members. SI seemed like a much gentler, kinder, compassionate forum back then. Not that we didn't have the tough talk and needed 2x4's, but I don't remember posters coming down so hard with the "man up" bullshit and the rubbing of the salt in the wounds to newly betrayed BH's I see now. I know DS would get very upset at those who seemed to enjoy twisting the knife into newly BS's.

Then we started to get more and more male's posters here. To me the tone seemed to change somewhat. Then we started getting the "Red Pill" posters. Yuckkkkkikk!!!!!! And, now we have what we have. An evolved form of Red Pill, misogyny, and just plain male pov mixed together? IDK. Don't care for it much, though.

As SMS says, there are a lot more male members here than there used to be, and they're more vocal. When I first posted, most of the responses on the thread were from BWs, however, I did receive several PMs from BHs who told me my wife wasn't a good candidate for R, etc, etc. Being new I didn't think to keep those PMs or alert anyone to them.

Fairly recently I've had a BH tell me that R isn't possible and that our R isn't real. Some people are very strong in their beliefs I guess.

I know other forums have this feature, but perhaps the best thing could be to incorporate a "mute" option like Twitter has. If you feel a poster is being unhelpful or posting things that--although within the guidelines--is triggering you, you can "mute" their post(s) so you cannot view them in a thread but the post(s) can be viewed by others. This allows for posting to continue without conflict as nobody knows if they have been muted. The post(s) may be helpful to some--which is good for those people. But if it is unhelpful to others, they have the option of not reading.

but perhaps the best thing could be to incorporate a "mute" option like Twitter has.

A similar feature is available if you upgrade. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to use it

What I am getting at is, no IRL outlet, pent up anger, and internet anonymity....create a perfect storm for hurt people to say hurtful things with no recourse

I know you have to be firm and direct a lot of times with a newly BH. A lot of times I feel the emotions of my own Dday mistakes. Call to action, hey you should look here or there, get to a lawyer, etc. There are 2 newish BH’s that are so angry and full of venom that they lash out at other BH’s and personally attack the WW. I haven’t really found one helpful piece of advice from either of them.