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Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses - Part 3

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devotedman posted 11/8/2016 07:30 AM

I re-read what I wrote and noticed something that I messed up.

This next thing that you say is also often a thing that leaves a child craving attention from any male or female source, and leaves the child devalued enough that they may feel that the only thing that they have to give in return for the affection/ego kibbles is sexual activity:

A distant father that she craved to get attention from. An unemotional mother that could not even help her with "girl''s things" when the time came.

I wrote "leaves the child devalued enough that they may feel"

What I really meant to say is that those sorts of parents "leave the child devalued enough that they as an adult may feel"

There's a guy a work that I used to talk really openly with. His wife had that distant father and developed a recognized "glitch", syndrome, condition, whatever, that left her craving male attention. She flirted, she kissed, she eventually fooled around. He stayed and worked through it with her (her fourth husband) and they're still married today, to the best of my knowledge. He retired a year or so ago.

What I was trying to get across is that the CSA stuff is really, really with really, really deep and long-term consequences. Couple that with the types of parental affection that she had and she's already got two strikes against her growing up with healthy attitudes.

You know how the general advice is IC for both, then MC when ready? Well, with CSA type stuff in the picture then the order is CSA-trained IC to deal with that, first, then IC for both to deal with the infidelity and finally MC.

I've said her often that I'm the first to support a BS leaving a CSA-affected WS. If you decide to stay then that road is a long, hard one. Witness hopelesskate's journey and feelings in her posts outside of this thread. As she and I have discussed on Parts II and 3, you almost have to give the CSA spouse a pass on the _fact_ of the A because of the way that they were brought up. We are taught that it is okay to lie, we are required to make everything seem okay to outsiders, and we are repeatedly coerced into sexual contact with adults who demonstrate this world-view.

CSA victims who physically survive but receive no psychological help with the abuse are quite likely to be some messed up folks. They can't not be. There is no real normal in their lives, their lives are surrounded by lives and forced sex. They have to drop all of their childhood learning and examples and basically rebuild their world-view. And they need help to do it. Some, sadly, never do. My xWW never did. She is, at 58, a broken woman who will never live alone again. She is physically capable of it, but not mentally capable. And she graduated from college with a BS in CompSci, Magna Cum Laude, and was smart.

Keep reading and come back with questions. Others than I will be along shortly.

EDIT
There's a real thing called "recreating the abuse". It happens for a variety of reasons, but the CSA victim/physical survivor can feel that if they keep trying, finally, they can control the outcome of having been abused. So they keep putting themselves in sexual situations. It doesn't work, though, because you can't really address the issue nor can you change the past. It is, sadly, somewhat common.

[This message edited by devotedman at 7:34 AM, November 8th, 2016 (Tuesday)]

iamanidiot posted 11/9/2016 00:40 AM

Thanks Devotedman

I have known her since she was 16. I KNOW what her parents were like - to them it was like children should NOT be seen or heard around adult company. She was the last born (when mum was already 40 and into her tea parties and Gin & Tonics). The older brother was the proverbial blue eyed darling that could do no wrong.

I understand that can lead to a sense of 'devalued' as a person - always trying to get recognition (especially from males). My wife is even today, very comfortable around males, talking, joking etc.

On the positive side my wife does my company's books at night (I am a one man business). So the last 14 years we have spent a lot of very close in-your-face time together. If there was a right time to find out about the A's now was that time. I don't think I would have been able to handle that knowledge those days in the past.
We are both in our late 50's and IC / MC is not an option. So I am left to read & read some more.

you almost have to give the CSA spouse a pass on the _fact_ of the A because of the way that they were brought up.

I do understand that. Even though it hurts!

hopefulkate posted 11/9/2016 05:22 AM

Hi All! I typed this whole thing out on my phone, then it died!!! It's 5:30, I haven't slept, but I keep trying to find time to get here and post. So much to say and share, though admittedly the things that have happened are hard to share.

I fear triggering anyone not ready to hear or see this stuff. So let me know if you want more details or directions for something to read or how to find a counselor, etc...I am not a professional (obviously ) so take whatever moves you to your IC for discussion. And, if this is too much, I will alter this post. My intent is to share the healing process because most texts lack anecdotal evidence, which is what helped me the most. So here goes...and a few of you are experiencing some of this stuff now too - it's just not this divisive (or perhaps obviously so). We all have different parts of us. Sometimes I feel childish, but I am still me. The level of separation is what differs between us all, but is also the thing that can help us integrated help those that are not.

Anyway, I talk to the alters a lot now. My H has amnesic episodes and once a week or so I spend an hour or more talking with them and then filling them in on what the others are thinking and feeling. I am earning their trust, and I even hugged the protector!! Waah?? Yeah.

But I talk a lot to the kid and it's like going back in time. (Going back in time with the teenager is fun because that's when we met, so he has a lot of memories of me that I have long forgotten. Fun but weird too.) Anyway, there I am, sitting on my bedroom floor talking to my H's grown body, that is in sound, word choice and posture, that of his young child self. We got to the bottom of his fear of death and where it comes from. Of why he is afraid of the others, of integrating, of growing up. Of his family and parents who just yelled and fought and how scared he always was (is). That he doesn't understand what it means to be married to me. His parents are married and we don't act that way.

And here is where perhaps a number of partners will find something of interest, and survivors too if this applies to you...

ugh, I don't know what the right thing to do is here. I typed out our conversation but it's about WHY he acted during the affair and the abuse. It's the child's COMPLETE distortion of reality and what friendship and family is.

I want to make this clear: THE CHILD DID NOT KNOW THAT IT WAS WRONG TO DO THAT WITH THE AP.

Did you see it? Did you hear it? DID NOT KNOW IT WAS WRONG.

Why? "BECAUSE THAT IS HOW PEOPLE PLAY AND I WANT FRIENDS."

Me: Did you want to? (speaking about the affair as the answer for the abuse is different for different reasons)

Kid: Yes, I wanted a friend. That's how friends play.

Me: Did you know I would be upset?

Kid: No.

Me: Do you understand why I am upset?

Kid: No.

....not even kidding I went into a whole discussion about what it means to be married and how those activities are for grown ups who love each other, and then only your wife when you are married because it is such a special gift and why it wasnt his fault as a kid...(i worry about saying too much about this part here)...

In the end, the kid apologized to everyone, and the teenager and adult are ready to fight for this kid now too. I explained why all parts are needed to stay, and again thanked the teenager for keeping everyone alive.

Me: So who turned him [the adult aka my husband] off?

Teenager/protector: Who do you think? I do more for those idiots than they can imagine. That idiot, did you know people shoot themselves in the head and don't die?! That idiot knows this and thought a car into a railing was a gaurantee. Fuck that. Just jump off a bridge you g.d. p*&^y.

The child: They [the adult and teenager] were fighting and I was scared and alone again. I wanted my mommy. I wanted a mommy. I needed a mommy.

(AP resembled his mom in many, many weird and creepy ways.)

Everything I have talked about still holds true. The feelings of fear, self hate and loathing...but this piece was missing. When I first found out about it all, he talked about liking it, but...not sexually. Always from an approval place except for one or two comments that always just sat weird. A few months after disclosure and the others were put away for a while, he adamantly denied this was the case. That he didn't like it.

My brain churned and churned because regardless of any kind of fog, a feeling comes from somewhere for some reason. For him, he really did just want a friend.

And that is something that he has always said. I just didn't understand the depths of the corrupt thinking until now.

And you know that part inside of you when you know you don't have it all? FINALLY...finally it is quiet. That is peaceful. And the healing can start.

devotedman posted 11/9/2016 07:52 AM

Don't change a word. Powerful stuff, and very simply, thank you. I think that I understand your feelings about posting it. Keep it as is.

A point of semantics, friend kate? The healing started a year or so back. I'll respectfully wager that the then-you never ever thought about the way of becoming the now-you.

A question for you - recently, in some other threads, you've questioned whether you'd ultimately stay or not. Now that you have some real answers, do you know?

Another - before you were married to three different individuals without really knowing it. Now that you've seen who the adult is, now that you've a relationship with each separate part, what do you think?

If you think that those aren't fair questions then just ignore them. I do understand what I'm asking.

steadychevy posted 11/9/2016 07:54 AM

devotedman, can you tell me how to go back to Sexual Abuse Part II? It's not on the list of thread topics under ICR.

Thanks.

hopefulkate posted 11/9/2016 21:10 PM

A point of semantics, friend kate? The healing started a year or so back. I'll respectfully wager that the then-you never ever thought about the way of becoming the now-you.

A good reminder, thank you! I think this is more the next phase for me now, then. Like, this is my own twisted version of trickle truth some near two years later. Not out of selfishness or intent, but that the truth was hidden from him. How could I get it? How can I hold on to anger or resentment at the impossible? For me, the answer was, I can't.

A question for you - recently, in some other threads, you've questioned whether you'd ultimately stay or not. Now that you have some real answers, do you know?

I don't. But...it's finally ok. In fairness, I am heading into my second season, I stopped my ADs and anti anxiety cold turkey (long story), but my beer or two at night in replace of them has my belly less than sexy. So...emotionally I am somewhat of a wreck. I've yet to re-stabalize hormonally from having baby number three at a (ahem) later age, and all of the above. That makes my journey a bit more difficult for me. But this last piece, the last pin I kept waiting to drop has dropped. And, the crazy part (sane?) is that him admitting he wanted it - regardless of how twisted that word 'wanted' is - it makes some parts fall into place, and the other part of the brain that is constantly churning...uh...what?...has something tangible to cling to for now. I will have to come back to this as I am not sure I can articulate this piece clearly without his voice in my head shouting "I didn't want that!" I know...you wanted a friend. I get it. But he wanted *something*, and now I truly get it. Or, am at peace because *HE* gets it. ahhh....that's it. Got there.

Another help has been the number of people posting recently in year 2 and beyond and that, it turns out, my feelings seem to be right on time. Not crazy! There is much in the strength of fighting alongside others...


Another - before you were married to three different individuals without really knowing it. Now that you've seen who the adult is, now that you've a relationship with each separate part, what do you think?

I love them all and hope they can join forces. Prior to this, and with a complete lack of awareness, and chosen (conditioned?) state of denial had me dealing with all three (not so much the kid)for most of our relationship. Ins and outs depending on the depression levels and outside stressors, but I can clearly go back in time to some memories and say, "Ooohhhh....", and that *I* am not crazy. *I* am not disgusting and unlovable. *I* did nothing to deserve that level of anger over dishes.

So there is calm in setting the record straight. Not that I am perfect - far from it! - but there was a lot of stuff I put up with that didn't make sense. I just knew enough not to push, and my low self esteem from my own foo kept me there too. Plus, he really is and has always been my best friend!

But I'm tired. I want an equal. I want a partner. I've been playing the nurturer for a long time now, and as I transition out (yes I am still playing roles I should not in theory be playing, but there are no other players so who else is going to get my kids their healthy dad they deserve?)...I still haven't slept. This might be gibberish!

Bottom line, the child holds his heart, the teenager holds his fight, and the adult holds our life together and the wisdom gained from time. I love them all. I can wait a little longer, but how long that is, I can't say. Today is good.

I will say that today the teenager used the pronouns "i" and "me" when referring to other alters!!! His level of integration and determination is inspiring. Roles reversed I don't know how I would have reacted, but I sure as hell would hope he would be here to hold my hand through it. So for now, I hold his.

If you think that those aren't fair questions then just ignore them. I do understand what I'm asking.

You are amazing. Please ask away as I have of you! I will refrain from sharing if I am scared it will be too much. I really do fear the trigger effect of my posts, but this stuff isn't readily accessible in most places. At least, it was hard for me to wrap my head around, so I'm hoping I am helping.

devotedman posted 11/9/2016 22:38 PM

steadychevy, I scroll to the bottom of the first page of the I Can Relate thread list and there is a page 2 of this forum.

Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses Part II is on page 2 of the forum thread list.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/text.forums.asp?tid=440930

[This message edited by devotedman at 10:41 PM, November 9th (Wednesday)]

steadychevy posted 11/10/2016 07:03 AM

That's my problem. I don't have a page 2 on the ICR thread page.

Thanks, devotedman.

nekorb posted 11/13/2016 21:33 PM

iamanidiot:

At only 22 months out from DDay, I can get angry, hurt, disgusted etc, if I don't make the positive effort to NOT be upset.
She is supportive of me and listens when I talk. But prefers to answer questions about the A's with I don't remembers and I don't knows.
I get told that SHE made the effort to move on with her life, and that I should too.

Saying she is supportive of you in one sentence and saying she tells you that you need to make the effort to get over it in the next are in-congruent statements.

If she just wants you to move on so SHE can get back to the life you guys had that SHE blew to shit, that is not being supportive. She's trying to avoid doing the work.

It's her job, traumatized spouse or not, to help you heal from her betrayal by being a safe partner for you.

I don't doubt that her abuse contributed to her cheating. But do you know what? There are a lot of us here that were abused and didn't cheat. It is not a get out of jail free card, in my book.

Kate - I like your post a lot. It's interesting and informative and gives us some insight into what you are going through with your WH. Just want to send up a friendly reminder that you are his spouse, not his IC, so make sure you engage with the alters with the right "hat" on. I'm glad that you were able to glean some information that helped you get over a hump, so to speak, in the healing process. I also agree with DM that your healing started a long time ago.

Question for the board:

Is it *mandatory* that I disclose my CSA/PTSD to G5?

It isn't causing any issues at this point. I DO think at some point that I should give him a heads up, but does it necessarily have to come before sex is initiated?

Am I being an unfair chicken and rationalizing this so that I don't have to have the conversation? Is it unfair to him to take this step (sex) without giving him the opportunity to decide for himself if he wants to be involved with someone with this history before we take it to that level?

I think he would take it a face value. I had the menopause discussion with him briefly, not in detail, and via text (OK - I wouldn't do this one via text, I'm not that stupid)...there was a delay in his response and I was kind of worried, but then when he replied he was definitely all "OMG - I'm so sorry - I feel like such an ass, I should have figured this out when you mentioned it last week", etc. In other words - super sweet and caring.

So - what say ye - CSA/PTSD convo mandatory before sex?

devotedman posted 11/13/2016 22:48 PM

I don't know, nekorb.

Guys get such a bad rap automatically where kids are concerned. Because of that, because of the possibility, the terrifying possibility, of being accused of trying to get close to a woman's kids, I disclose early.

steadychevy posted 11/14/2016 08:05 AM

This is just my gut feeling opinion, nekorb. I think you should have the conversation before sex with G5.

My WW suffered from CSA. I didn't know until long after we were married and had children and then it was just sort of casually mentioned. I think, now, there was a lot more given some of her thought processes. She was raped twice and told no one until me after DDay. I wish I would have known and we had gotten help and worked together on it. I knew after wqe were married for some thime that there was something wrong and wanted her to "get help" but did things that were counter productive. IMO, the knowledge would have stimulated me to do research and be a better partner and support system - work as a team. Or, I may be full of shit.

G5 seems like a fine, thoughtful gentleman. He could well be a catalyst in your journey to a healthier you. IMO though, he needs to know so he can provide the kind of support and love required. Another thought is that having sex, for me, is making a major investment. I don't/won't do that lightly (what do I know? WW is my one and only.). What if he cuts and runs on finding out and you have invested that in the relationship and another part of your heart? I think I would want to know a little more about how G5 might react before making too big of an investment.

I don't think there needs to be too much detail at first. Something along the line of being sexually abused as a child and how that affects a person and you think he should know that before he gets too involved. If he cuts and runs wouldn't you prefer that earlier rather than later? If he doesn't wouldn't that say a great deal about him, too?

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. These are just my thought and I may be totally on the wrong track. Hopefully others will also provide input so you can get an array of opinions.

My last thought, nekorb, is to take it slow. A worthwhile man will respect that. On the other hand WWs AP waited 6 months from first kiss to first fuck so maybe I'm just full of shit.

hopefulkate posted 11/15/2016 02:09 AM

Nikorb- thanks. I know I am walking the line here btw wife and therapist. I wonder though what other choice I have to get the results I want? (I.e. Healthy -living- dad for my kids.)

If I stay out of it and let his healing occur in a vaccuum then I get neglected, our marriage gets neglected, and the kids get neglected. If I read and learn and stay just a little bit up and ahead of him, then I (sometimes) can have patience to wait my turn, or explain that I feel neglected and it's because of xyz. Plus, since the others seem to talk to me mostly, I have to talk to them at their age level and as a friend - not their wife. Because in that part of the brain I am not married to him yet. And their questions are about what is happening in therapy.

I will be honest, I ask myself that question a lot. Am I doing too much? I talk to our counselors too. So far, because I am ok talking to everyone and feeling a bit of peace (note the change in a few paragraphs from now), then carry on is the mantra. The teenager still doesn't view suicide as off the table. The child still feels and fears this, and the adult gets confused. I feel like I'm just back on the island I was prior to the breakdown, but that I'm building my boat to escape. Make sense?

The downside is not seeing my husband as an adult or my husband. For now i am working on awareness and the end goal. Anything more will be bonus.

Now, that said, his f'd up family fracked him down again to message him. Telling him to stop this silent treatment already. It has triggered him deeply, and me too. We haven't slept much lately and have had little time to process. Why can't they just stop? I want to file a no contact order, but guess how tricky that gets when talking to the child?

This will pass as each other has before but the holidays are fast approaching. This will be a difficult time for us all and i feel the pressure mounting again on my shoulders to help give the illusion of super fun traditions for the kids. Which is fun, just, I keep waiting for my partner to join me.

As for your situation. If you feel this could be serious, then disclose your abuse as just that, abuse, and so you do have some PTSD from it but are aware and want to make sure any reactions related to that are identified early to differentiate from reactions to him. Now, if you are less sure of the long term status, and really just want to see what it's like again, then I say don't tell unless your reaction during would require a disclosure before. I would just want someone to tell me about diseases or a possible emotional reaction. Other than that (and I am in your boat class of being with my h only), I would just want to see how that feels without adding anything to it. But, that's me, someone with some exposure to all of this but not really. So take that bit with a grain of salt because I'm still here on my boat!

nekorb posted 11/16/2016 22:13 PM

:::sigh:::

I know you guys are right. I just don't want to with so many fibers of my being. Not all of them, but alot of them. lol

I'm going to try to take the approach that he will read from me what his reaction should be. If I just present it as factual information without making a big deal about it, hopefully he won't either.

Send me some strength, please.

devotedman posted 11/16/2016 22:18 PM

Strength! You got this, don't worry.

You'll be fine. Help him out a bit, he can't read your mind.

[This message edited by devotedman at 10:19 PM, November 16th, 2016 (Wednesday)]

devotedman posted 11/17/2016 20:04 PM

I know I am walking the line here btw wife and therapist. I wonder though what other choice I have to get the results I want?

I ask because I don't know - what if you played less therapist? Is a professional therapist available on call? If so, is it affordable?

If I stay out of it and let his healing occur in a vaccuum then I get neglected, our marriage gets neglected, and the kids get neglected. If I read and learn and stay just a little bit up and ahead of him, then I (sometimes) can have patience to wait my turn, or explain that I feel neglected and it's because of xyz.

I get the neglected part. That's a longer (much longer) version of IC pre-MC in a regular (regular? whatta word for it) A situation.

What happens when you explain that you feel neglected? And to which alter do you explain that? And, in terms appropriate to the alter, or appropriate for a wife/husband? Wouldn't that confuse the teen and child alters?

Am I doing too much? I talk to our counselors too.

What does the counselor say about the exchanges with the three of him? I'm assuming that a) they know about the exchanges and b) that they approve of the exchanges. Does the counselor warn you about certain subjects?

The downside is not seeing my husband as an adult or my husband. For now i am working on awareness and the end goal. Anything more will be bonus.

I'm confused here. How do you see him, then? I will grant you that I have never been in your spot. I can only surmise that I would see a wife as a wife, but with some major problems. I will also surmise that I would have trouble being *ahem* maritally active(?) with said wife. However, my activity-interest drops to close to zero when spouse/partner is ill or injured. I just get all caring and "Oh, you poor dear! Let me get you some nice soup." and stuff.

Telling him to stop this silent treatment already.

Block. Block email. Block phones. Can the therapist (a Dr., perhaps?) help with getting a protection order from them? I honestly do not know.

I want to file a no contact order, but guess how tricky that gets when talking to the child?

Can the child just be told that it is going to happen and that it is for the best?

Which is fun, just, I keep waiting for my partner to join me.

I have a real question here. When he is The Adult, he is with you. Granted, he's not whole. From my admittedly little knowledge of the subject the other Alters will, essentially, "grow up" and merge with The Adult. He will gain some strengths from the adult versions of The Child and The Teenager, but - again from my limited understanding - he will be mostly The Adult, just a more untroubled one? Is that right?

hopefulkate posted 11/17/2016 21:03 PM

I ask because I don't know - what if you played less therapist? Is a professional therapist available on call? If so, is it affordable?

So, all of him seem to trust me more than the therapist, so I get to the nitty gritty rather quickly. Getting to his fear of death and how it relates to the abuse, the fear of integrating and therapy likely has saved months if not longer, let alone the cost. He would do well to go more often, but it is really expensive and we are out of pocket at the moment. Robbing Peter to pay paul, but well worth it I think! I am learning so much and it's helping me to understand my mother, who is a survivor, and sister, and ...honestly, it's amazing what a little knowledge and compassion can lend to once I started sharing a little bit! So, we just talk about how I am doing with it all, and I come here to vent when i need to as well. I...believe you've read my work?

What happens when you explain that you feel neglected?

He refocuses on me and his end goal when I mention I am struggling. I do try to hold out and give him his time to heal, but I can only go so long before I need a crying session and for him to hold me and say it will be ok. He responds with love and understanding. So this balance of him taking care of me vs me taking care of him is what we are sort of balancing in therapy. Half the session goes to the other person (ummm...way way tilted on my side time-wise, meaning I talk way more about him than he does about me/us; but that's ok and to be expected. Working on awareness and speaking up when I need to be heard.)

And to which alter do you explain that? And, in terms appropriate to the alter, or appropriate for a wife/husband? Wouldn't that confuse the teen and child alters?

I tell them all. Sometimes they all hear me at the same time. And if not then I talk to them individually. The teenager knows what it means to be married, he just doesn't always think our kids are our kids. Well, he knows they are, they just don't feel like ours. And his child alter knows I am his wife but really is learning about marriage as we talk. It's...weird. But, even since I wrote that he has aged a little bit. To my husband he "looks" taller and is standing up. He was only allowed to sit under the table for a long, long time.

What does the counselor say about the exchanges with the three of him? I'm assuming that a) they know about the exchanges and b) that they approve of the exchanges. Does the counselor warn you about certain subjects?

They are fascinated. I'm helping them do their job and in the end all of our goals are met. In the beginning I was told not to broach certain topics, but now I can say/ask whatever I feel, and since I have read so much, I can help explain why/what happens in their (his) brain, and why therapy is helping, or why he is asked to do certain things. Kids want to know why. Not be told, "this will work". So I will tell him how a particular exercise can help recode his brain. With the teenager I use middle school science, with the kid I use pictures. And after a big session, I write it all down and ask permission to share it with the counselors from everyone, and then send and check if I handled it ok.

The trouble with not playing counselor is that these parts of him are here whether I play the game or not. If I help play the game, then i get my husband whole, sooner. (In theory.) If I leave him alone, he feels abandoned and it's harder...so some of this is certainly selfishly motivated. Not in an evil or intentional way, but upon reflection I want my husband back. Or the guy I *know* in my gut.

I'm confused here. How do you see him, then? I will grant you that I have never been in your spot. I can only surmise that I would see a wife as a wife, but with some major problems. I will also surmise that I would have trouble being *ahem* maritally active(?) with said wife. However, my activity-interest drops to close to zero when spouse/partner is ill or injured. I just get all caring and "Oh, you poor dear! Let me get you some nice soup." and stuff.

lol this one made me laugh! I guess what I meant was it is weird to be talking to my adult husband, but when the child alter is there I honestly SEE his kid self. (It helps I have seen pictures of him and have known him for so long.) So, that's weird. I see the kid when he regresses in scary situations, but this is not often. The teenager is around most of the time if the adult is not, and that isn't the majority of time. Mostly he is this perfectly "normal" seeming guy who helps around the house and with bedtimes etc...but when triggered like the rest of us, emotionally fades. It's these times that are hard because I am usually emotionally charged too, and I need to remain calmer. Something that is hard for me!

So now the TMI piece ...we are both hypersexualized from our experiences. The kid is NEVER around for this, so I don't see the kid. I see the teenager, but we met as teenagers so my teenager likes him too. Not that I disassociate, but we all have our whole selves inside. My mom can trigger my angry 11 year old self at any given moment. Sadly!

So, basically, perhaps I compartmentalize him too. I like this part of our relationship so I kind of don't analyze it too much because...well...no need to finish that!

I have a real question here. When he is The Adult, he is with you. Granted, he's not whole. From my admittedly little knowledge of the subject the other Alters will, essentially, "grow up" and merge with The Adult. He will gain some strengths from the adult versions of The Child and The Teenager, but - again from my limited understanding - he will be mostly The Adult, just a more untroubled one? Is that right?

Great question. I will come back and post this because this is really important. This is the goal and this is why I do more than some, I suppose. I want to get it right and I'm exhausted. We decided to go away tomorrow and surprise the kids with a vacation and leave in the am, but...we aren't even close to being packed!

nekorb posted 11/18/2016 23:37 PM

Just wanted to pop in and say that I had the talk with G5. I opened with the PTSD, gave a brief but basic outline of my abuse. Didn't specifically say CSA, but I think he got the picture.

I said this iabhisbopportunity to cut and run, as some people don't want to deal with that kind of stuff. He shrugged and said, "I'm good with it. I don't really know what it is I'd be dealing with. ". I explained about triggers and panic attacks and that they are pretty few and far between at this point. He looked genuinely shocked that I thought he might want to walk away. He's not concerned. Whew!

Thanks for the support!

devotedman posted 11/19/2016 11:20 AM

nekorb, that was good of you to do for him (and for yourself, too).

IMHO, your integrity is showing. That's a good thing. Being willing to let someone know what they are really dealing with is a big thing (for me, my opinion, etc.).

I case you folks can't tell (and you're not mindreaders, amirite?) I have some personal, deep-seated feelings around this issue in general.

My thoughts run like this (and only my thoughts, discussions, please):
* I endured CSA
* I endured being constantly put down

These things have had effects upon me. The effects have not always been pretty.

Here's the bit I have issues around:
I _can_ just not mention these things. That is a choice. I _can_ choose not to disclose that I have triggers, issues, etc. that I can handle on my own.

This _might_ result in me "looking my best"/looking "better" to a prospective partner than I would if I disclosed.

People should have the choice about the kind of relationship/partner that they're getting involved with.

I feel (I used "feel" intentionally) that if I hide these things and look better, more fit, etc, as a result then I am misrepresenting myself _and_ I feel that, for me, that is a sign of wayward thinking. I, personally, feel manipulative.

Questions:
1) Does my reasoning make logical sense when followed?
2) Do you agree with/disagree with my reasoning?
3) Thoughts? Comments? Am I being way too hard on myself, which I do seem to have a propensity for?

thanks!

hopefulkate posted 11/19/2016 21:07 PM

Great to hear Nekorb!!

Admittedly my withholding of info thoughts come from my own foo and fear of others so im glad you didn't listen to me. I shouldn't post about things i know nothing about! Lol!

DM - you're 100% right. Had I known the demons I was fighting for so long, I wouldn't have taken the hits personally all of these years and become as broken as I am now. All the outbursts, reactions, and all that can come from having CSA in one's past and expressed in a relationship I took on as if I were the one broken. It was all my fault.

Now, I was, and still am broken and working on fixing myself finally, but I lost my twenties, most of my thirties, my family is not what I wanted it to be size wise, my career is nothing I wanted and my savings are laughable. All due to sacrifices I either made, or decisions out of fear or self hatred that would not have been made had I been given full disclosure and a chance to read and understand as I am now.

It's an interesting what if game for me though. We were so young, would I have read about it anyway? Part of the what if game. So who knows.

Bottom line, I should have been told. That was so not fair to me. I lost my life to it.

Of course, so did he...

hopefulkate posted 11/28/2016 03:41 AM

It wasn't the child...it was the teenager!

Crazy. So...I'm exhausted, but writing here helps my brain and I need help to send this back to him when he is awake tomorrow...so sorry for the long post about to drop. :)

Tis the season for triggers, and I had some doozies lately and today. He tries to console me, sometimes he can, and sometimes, even though i give him EXACTLY what to say and do in these moments, he still freezes. So, he froze today. I chose to cry alone in the bathroom and just have my moment and move on.

I should have known better, but he insisted...I found a box of old stuff, including love letters etc from our time together (that was fun) but I also found pictures of him as a kid - he wanted to bring one in for counseling for an exercise (BTW - don't do this without a counselor!!! Huge trigger warning for any survivors out there. Ok.) Anyway, I found them and he said, let me see. Stupid, stupid me...but...pain can turn into growth...

After acknowledging he had 'failed' me again, he chose to make some changes (he shaved his beard he was growing to hide his face) and came down to work on his vision board, which led to him starting to doodle, which led to him just drawing a LOT, and explaining all of his feelings and discovering that his TEEN is actually torn between two timelines - not split, just has a shared existence (I will work on explaining that one better)...anyway, at the time of breakdown/cracking/whatever you want to call it, the teen and adult self were arguing and the child "ran away". I don't know what this means yet, but it scared the rest. So the teen turned off the adult to stop the suicide plan, and went looking for the child, who wanted his (a) mommy.

{I wonder if anyone thinks I am crazy? I wonder if anyone believes any of this? I wonder why I don't care?}

Anyway, it was the teen that went looking to the AP to get the child and to get that validation that he is good, and certain parts of it were acted on because the child's memory of 'how this works' was engaged. And the teen has been giving anger out to everyone inside because he feels the shame of the A and the abuse and has been blameshifting.

All of the above was related to me in picture form, with different parts of the brain drawn, severed, shaded, bouncing around and finally verbally explained by my H while I just sat there.

Now, it's 4:15, I will try to be coherent!

So...while I have read about how the brain is coded and presents itself during episodes like this and on a spectral level, H has not. His pictures and words described exactly what was in the later chapters of my phD level DID book. And given the verbage, I know he couldn't have read it to make it up!

So...points: One, I SAW the teenager...the WHOLE time...this makes so much sense to me. SO MUCH SENSE. I was struggling with the child piece because he only is out and about lately. I knew he was there, but now that I know, everyone is rather comfortable to come to play or chat. This was not how our life was prior. I just got to guess at some of the seemingly random reactions.

I couldn't understand some other parts if the child was in control, it didn't make sense. This does.

Anyway, now that the teen has been outed (and he was so mad!) and the shame labeled, it's just another step towards self forgiveness etc.

Now, these are small steps, or timely steps?, so still going at it...but this was pretty cool to see him able to work with everyone to think about how they think etc.

Curious as to why the AP is always this scary ghost thing in all of his pics, and why I see this time and time again I still ohhhh....

I hate the AP! I am angry or jealous or hurt or something strong and ugly because she won. She was able to take my H from me - even if it was for a short period and he had ED for some of it ...but she won. I know, battle not the war. I hear she isn't happy and her marriage is crap. I have a loving hubby who is working hard to make it up to me. But she pretended to be my friend! And she was the type that I felt competitive with - it was just that kind of vibe she threw. Ugh...

Oh, my question...so, a year leading up to the A, the AP was SUCH a predator. Her"Oh H, you're so much stronger than my H..." anyway...

my H started to say things like he thought she was prettier than me, that I should dress like her, that she was funny...he really cared what she thought about him. Ugh, I hated it then too. I even warned him about her...

Anyway, I am struggling with that piece. So he shared how much worse his relationship with his mother was. She was a sick B...

So...my question for this group. Given that his A was reenactment of his abuse with someone who reminded him of his abuser(s) and that now he thinks she is gross and disgusting...is it really possible that his words about wanting me to be more like her...no, that his attraction to her really was because she reminded him of his mom so much?

I'm in too deep here. I want to sanity check this last piece. It makes sense, but my ego is rather low, so I'm not fully infused with logic at the moment.

I just reread this and it's practically gibberish. Posting to save and will edit for clarity shortly. Nite all! Happy cyber shopping!

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