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Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses - Part 3

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Lavender0916 posted 9/14/2017 23:49 PM

Devoted man that was amazing and dead on. Basically he will F up as he continues to work on himself. I just saw major proof he is seeing this amazing IC. The best trauma specialist in the Bay Area. The dude connected with my WH right away. Ironicallly I had the blunt talk with him like you advised. Although I did not read it until now. DM, I wish my WH knew people like you to talk to...Many times during our lives together how alone he felt. His whole sibling pack was abused by that f'in uncle and they don't share positive survival stories.

It breaks my heart. My WH and I had a good talk tonight. I am not sure what I will do to "preserve" myself and dignity during the initial phases. I have to think this through. His AP is/was a manipulative bottom feeder. He is trying very hard to stay away from her. Scary to me but I can see that. Where does that leave me. I will fight the co-dependency and give him choices. It is not OK to lie or cheat on me. BTW, I have a wonderful IC, have been seeing her since 2000 after my sister died. (Mom issues, which grew to Mom and Dad issues)therapy is never ending. Then I go to Co-Dependent Meetings which are good too.

hopefulkate posted 9/16/2017 07:04 AM

DM, Skan, and Lavender walk into a room. All three help to pull a chain that lights up the lone lightbulb in a seemingly empty space. They walk out. Zoom out...the audience can now see they have turned on the lights in my head. ( )

I figured it out!! Why I am stuck, why the AP is back on my mind, why I can't write, am afraid to write to commit to R, to LIVE....and I am not sure I would have gotten here without your help. Thank you!!!!!!

I've mentioned time and time again that I want YouMeI to write his story. I want to hear in his words, him tell the story of the A. What was he feeling/thinking. I want HIM to tell my his WHY. Not the counselors, not the books, not me - HIM.

And time and time again, I am told by many wise folks like you here (specific shout out to DM) and the ICs, that he will tell his story when he is able to. That I need to be patient.

And so I stuffed my needs back down again because, well you can't exactly get water out of a rock just because you are thirsty.

But his story, his words, his why - that is what I need to heal. Every time I get upset and he comforts me, he gives me 2-4 reasons for why he did it. (2-6 actually). These reasons have not changed, but they don't always agree with the books - or my own self talk to take me down from those panic attacks i am so good at having.

Last night I realized, it's his different memory groups responding, so of course this makes sense.

Unfortunately, the reasons conflict he gives with each other, so I just sit and try to understand illogical ramblings, which make ME feel crazy, which make ME feel like I am living a lie, which make ME feel like I am all alone in this - and if that AP ever did come back to say anything - it would be me against her, and I wasn't always there, so I can not win. I can not R if I am doing so based on a lie. (Lie is strong here- misinterpretation of reality??)

She could easily say anything, and my WH could not defend anything because he does not know himself. I am a bleeding wound still.

Sure, I was able to stuff some gauze in there for a while, so I could keep on going in the interim, but I have run out of band aids.

And I am runnning out of patience.

So, I feel like a fraud. I feel like the AP has all of this power. I feel like I am still being lied to.

All because I don't have the story all of us BS's want and NEED.

All because he can't yet.

There is at least peace in remembering why I am so stuck.
And in some rational thoughts combatting some of the above - but it doesn't matter.

In the end, if I can't get a story, I can't stay. And THIS is my struggle as of late. Hardly fair I suppose...

devotedman posted 9/16/2017 12:01 PM

hopefulkate, IMHO you are very, very close to an understanding.

You mention that he gives different stories. Yep, he will. He's different people inside. And even if the same person gives slightly different stories, well, par for the course.

Understand this his reasons are big and complex _and_ affected by his age-understanding of the situation _and_ his current mood/state/emotional-thingy.

Ask me about a ginormous programming project when I'm having a great day and I'll answer, "Yes! Great! I've been wanting to tackle that! Give me a year!"

Ask me the same thing when I'm having a mediocre day and I'll say something like, "Hmm. Yes, that is big and I could probably do it. I see no major impediments to me doing it. Want me to start?"

Ask me on a really down day and I'll say something like, "Oh, God. Shoot me now. Please."

Those three answers are all about the same thing they're just coming from differing emotional states. They tell you more about me and my state than they do about the thing being asked about. Better states give more and more upbeat info. Poorer states and I can't see the project because of something that _I_ consider huge and hard about it.

Now, ask six year-old me about it and I'll return with, "What's a computer?"

Ask 25 year-old me and I'll ask, "Got a manual?"

Ask 54 year-old me and I'll answer, "Sure, when do I start?"

Those answers, again, tell you more about me than about the project. All of these examples, though, have _truth_ in them. It might not be the truth that you want. It certainly isn't a consistent truth, but it is _truly_ _said_. There is no chicanery going on behind the scenes. I do not intend to deceive.

Now - YouMeI has no reason to _lie_ to _you_. He is, most likely, answering truthfully but his truth is big. He is various blind men standing still and using two hands to describe an elephant. One day he will be at the trunk and say, "Snake!" One day he'll be at a knee and say, "Hard and wrinkly!" One day he'll be on a side and say, "Wide, flat, and slightly wrinkled!"

His six year-old will likely try to please and not understand, and you'll get that YouMeI's truth. His protector will have a teen's viewpoint. His adult will understand many facets and his mood will determine which he focuses on and will color his answer.

As he changes his answers will change, too. As me grows in understanding himself he will sit with the new understanding and then be able to articulate it.

Now imagine his AP told you something. Why would you believe it? What possible motive does she have for telling truth as opposed to telling hurtful lies or twisted truth? How aware of YouMeI could she be to have insights that you or he do not?

Cast off AP. She isn't your problem. She also isn't some grand magister who knows Things That Cannot Be Known By Mortals. She was a pitstop on a road to destruction.

Please be careful of setting him an impossible task. He likely can't articulate his ginormous why's in a single sitting and there are likely facets that will elude him in a single sitting that might be thought of later.

Comments?

hopefulkate posted 9/16/2017 18:33 PM

Except, the AP is my problem. She pretended to be my friend, remember? I have been lied to my whole life. If he can't get to his own truth then what can I do? How can I be? I can certainly stand here and confront her for what she did to me, but how can I stand here and justify me staying and standing up for him when I don't even have his story (in his words-I am well versed in what likely happened from a psychological and chemical perspective.). YouMeI had a good analogy: it's like defending your kid when someone says they stole something. You believe your kid and and shout to all who will listen - I know my kid and he did not do this! But....they did.

You did a much better job of explaining what I was saying - his truth is in many different parts. I'm saying, I deserve better. I'm saying, it's time he told his story with some sort of start and finish. He hasn't done this yet.

At. All.

It's 2.5 yrs out.

I don't care if it changes. I hope it changes, to a point, because you're right, that shows growth. I just want to hear the Damn thing for once

Yikes...super sore spot for me. Very little compassion here.

I did tell him - I keep having mind movies again and am having a hard time. (Full disclosure I am still in withdrawal from some
Meds...so that is part of it). I get actions and no words.

My love language is words. He doesn't have words all the time.

Rock, meet hard place.

hopefulkate posted 9/17/2017 08:08 AM

He tried. He gave a pretty decent first go last night.
I am more peaceful today. Hurting as we had to rehash it all again and it has been some time since talking about it so much - but the visions or words are not playing nonstop so far.

Thanks for listening.

Lavender, I was thinking of you too. I *needed* this, much like you *need* to feel safe and know where he is. We had a good talk yesterday and as I said something, blah blah blah science blah blah, he said, "I wish I didn't make you learn all of that."

To which I replied, "I really don't think you have heard how f'd up I already was from my foo. I already *knew* this stuff - it was just amplified by the A."

Anyway, (((lavender))). I don't think YouMeI ruined my life - my mom did; though she had no ill intentions. The A just made it all significantly harder to handle.

It's time for me to "take the wheel and drive".

hopefulkate posted 9/18/2017 07:28 AM

Cast off AP. She isn't your problem. She also isn't some grand magister who knows Things That Cannot Be Known By Mortals. She was a pitstop on a road to destruction.

Thanks, DM. I love that last line.

And now that he gave me a taste of what I need, her power has shrunk.

Sometimes I write quickly here to get my thoughts out and do a terrible job - either in making sense at all, or getting to my point!

I can't exactly explain what it is I am looking for. Consistency? Maybe that is it. I truly do understand the reality of multiple realities - and I am no different in different emotional states. (Some says I imagine myself in an arena like Madison square garden, giving speeches or something - and other days I hide inside and regret sharing anything about myself...I am not consistent either.)

I fired my therapist for a bit for cost purposes. I am off meds by choice and done the right way, and I broke up with my two best friends/family members who were my only support system because they are still very wayward in their minds and marriages.

Forging ahead alone, and feeling like the only compassion for still having pain "this far out" is this site, I called another IC that focuses on trauma, sex addicts, and the impact on marriages including infidelity. I was simply looking for some compassion and asked her, do you find a lot of people stuck like me this far out?

She refused to give compassionate answers or to normalize the situation. Instead she said that rather than worry about what is or isn't normal, the fact remains that I am stuck because there are things not healed from.

Her tone and refusal to say exactly what I wanted was a hard blow for me in that moment.

Time away, I think this is a healthy approach and am thinking of myself in these terms. I have c-ptsd, depression and anxiety, panic attacks etc - just from my childhood. Add the A and I am quite the delight!

So- chisel in hand, I am thinking on naming my worries and issues to attack them head on. Anyone else tired of hurting for so long???

I'm rambling....

Also want to add - life is not without joy. Little one is walking and talking, the older two couldn't be doing better, and there are smiles and laughter every day.

Just, it's the underneath and the quiet where all of he above lurk. And it's exhausting!

devotedman posted 9/18/2017 08:30 AM

I'm going to present my beliefs and interpretations only. This might be where our personal beliefs might differ. My reality is not your reality, etc.

Except, the AP is my problem. She pretended to be my friend, remember?

I see those two sentences as entirely unrelated. In my view the first is false and the answer to the second is, "Yes. Further, that's a darned good reason to cut her from your life."

hopefulkate, _why_ is the AP your problem? There is nothing that she can do to "make it right." And there's nothing that you can do to make her "make it right." You can't go over and provide an old-fashioned beat-down. She might or might not deserve it (I'm an old-fashioned, eye-for-an-eye sort myself) but in today's legal climate you'll come out worse than she.

And I seem to remember that her version of events differs from yours. Perhaps I misremember there, perhaps I misinterpret what I remember. Again, I have to present the question, "So?"

In a perfect world the situation that you are in with regard to AP could be discussed beetween the two of you. But this is far from a perfect world and she is far from healthy herself. She has a background that makes it okay for her to have encroached into your M. She presents a different version of events about what happened. The version that she presents makes it okay, in her mind, for her to have acted the way that she did. You are unlikely to get her to present a version of reality that satisfies _you_. Stated a different way, you are unlikely to get her to present a version of reality that agrees with YouMeI's and hopefulkate's version of the same reality.

Let me interject a real question here that might make all of the up-above superfluous. What exactly is the problem that she presents? What would a good resolution of that problem look like to you? Lastly, how likely is that outcome to happen?

Back to my personal viewpoint based upon interpreting what you've written before.

She pretended to be my friend, remember? I have been lied to my whole life.

Yes. I remember. She has now proven herself to be not-a-friend. AP in my own case pretended to be a friend, too. Perfect reason to no longer associate with them.

If I look back on my life I could say that I've been lied to my whole life as well. For me personally though that feels like a bit of a victim mentality if I look at myself in the mirror and say those words aloud. In the end, again to me, that is just a really good reason to not associate with the liars that I know about. hopefulkate, _I_ get to choose how I react to my past and I get to (have to?) choose how I let my past affect my present and future.

In the end there are a lot of various bites of a shit sandwich.

I'm sorry, my inspiration for this particular post has gone. I'll just leave this here.

hopefulkate posted 9/18/2017 09:56 AM

See, I did it again. I actually whole heartedly agree with you. My failure was to give the distinction between I *feel* the AP is my problem, but I know my problem lies within.

I have more to say because I really like what you said, but I want to make sure I take time to express myself more accurately. My oft used line is that depression lies to you. I am no different. I know I am currently in a strange fog, but I can't see my way out. So I come here. Because you all are awesome!

Healinggirl posted 9/18/2017 10:56 AM

There were 19 similarities between the (female) A person and the man that abused my husband. Nineteen. We made a list.

How much does this A person or the A itself resemble the abuse? Something to think about maybe. It helped me to get her out of my head permanently and to see her for the manipulative opportunist she actually was.


Healinggirl posted 9/18/2017 11:33 AM

I asked Mr Healing what helped him the most and was the reason why we both healed.

Firstly was his own understanding of the after effects of CSA. He understood how people had easily manipulated him and how he had no boundaries. How sex was downgraded.

Secondly he said it was my support that even when I was hurting so badly I never gave up on him.

And thirdly he said he really wanted to change, to become a better person, to put the past behind him.

He still tells white lies....its habit I guess, and it only happens when he feels cornered. It happens less and less as he learns to be an adult and he becomes more confident in himself.

This is only my personal experience but we not only survived but thrived. I can only hope it helps someone.

[This message edited by Healinggirl at 11:36 AM, September 18th (Monday)]

Lavender0916 posted 9/18/2017 13:00 PM

Firstly was his own understanding of the after effects of CSA. He understood how people had easily manipulated him and how he had no boundaries. How sex was downgraded.

Secondly he said it was my support that even when I was hurting so badly I never gave up on him.

And thirdly he said he really wanted to change, to become a better person, to put the past behind him.

HealingGirl, Your story is inspirational too. On Thursday, we had a long talk about how he wants to change. put the past behind him. I know the AP manipulates him. I never seen him flashback so much since this all started. I know this is a reenactment. He has made much progress going to therapy right after discovery. My #1 Need. He is much better around the children. Doing stuff around the house. Getting involved with activities around the home. Put the wedding ring back on (around neck; doesn't fit finger); improving on transparency. There are setbacks especially during this phase. He is still foggy. 6 weeks of therapy will not do much yet like DM said. 6 weeks doesn't even touch the surface of lying-cheater to integrity. How did you get through this phase. Boundaries of course. Don't want to give up on him. I know there is a decent man in there. The behaviours suck though.
I am thinking anti-anxiety medication.

hopefulkate posted 9/18/2017 14:43 PM

Thanks, Healinggirl. Yes, his AP had more in common wit his abusers than I think even he knows. (I stopped pointing them out to him as they made him feel worse.)

I think DM hit on something by calling out my words as those of a victim.

I feel victimized by the person. I shared with her, confided in her, and was trying to help her. I also saw her for what she was, and even tried to tell others - specifically and explicitly my husband - who and what she was.

Only, I shouted it with the volume of a little church mouse. My insides were screaming, stay away!!!!!, but my whispered words were, "she's is crazy and I don't think it will end well". (Yes, those were my words I spoke)

Similarly to her when she "asked" YouMeI to do xyz, and his response was a very quiet, "I don't think we should".

It was the loudest 'No' we could muster. And how pathetic do we feel? How weak am I??!!

So I feel victimized and I want justice. Yes. But I also want my husband to stand *with* me in solidarity. I'm so tired of fighting alone.

So....being a victim. Victim mentality. Wow....thanks DM.

It is about perspective and survivor mentality needs to be in place instead. It may take awhile....but I hear you.

....can I still whine about her and want her dead? And maybe type her name into google with the phrase psycho hose beast in hopes of it trending now??.....

No? Not healthy???

devotedman posted 9/18/2017 14:53 PM

I think that it is ok for a while. I did the same. For a while. Then I actually forgot ap last name and I just stopped. Don't get me wrong, I still think about it from time to time. Less frequently as time passes.

Healthy? I dunno. Normal? I believe so.

devotedman posted 9/18/2017 17:04 PM

And now that he gave me a taste of what I need, her power has shrunk.

Gently, hopefulkate, her power is ever only what you give her. And with the two words, "her power," you're giving her too much.

To me, anyway, a very pernicious phraseology develops in a BS. "I need <this> to heal," we say. We say it so meaningly and so meaningfully. We cry it to the heavens. We shout it at our spouses. It is the quintessence of hurt, a plaintive cry of, "What about _me_?!?"

Gently again, is <this> what we _need_ or is it just what we _want_? Wasn't it in Ecclesiastes, "vanity of vanities, what is vanity?"

What, indeed?

Stating, "I need <this> to heal," is the same as saying, "I will not heal without <this>." But, is that second a true statement? What if a tornado ripped through Hopesville and wiped out YouMeI and AP. Then, according to your statement, you would never heal. That simply is not true. You want <this> to heal. You have put so very much into <this> that, if you finally got it, you might find that it isn't really what you need at all.

What if your H can never, ever, get to the place where he can say "the words" to you? What if, tomorrow, he got a nasty head crack and simply loses parts of his past? That has happened to me. There are large pieces of it that are simply gone. For a while I actually stumbled upon notes, cards, and letters from friends from that time. I have absolutely no recollection of ever having received visits referred to in the cards, nor do I remember receiving the cards themselves. I have very sketchy bits of some things. Not others. Imagine YouMeI in the same circumstance.

Would you leave? Are the words that important, really? Or is it all circumstances? If he truly had no recollection of what he did but came out of that accident oh-so-very committed to you would you say to him, "I cannot live with what went before and of which you have no recollection. I am gone." Or would you, in an act of grace and forgiveness to yourself, recognize that the past is simply that - the past - and go forward into a new future?

Full honesty here - I now have come to pity xWGF and AP. They are what they are and I choose to let that not have too much power over my future. That does not mean that I'd piss on him to put out a fire. It also does not mean that I'd be holding a gas can, match, and be running from that fire, either. It took a while. It really did. Now, however, I can say that their existence is not an affront any longer. I ran into them in a restaurant a year-ish? ago and I simply had lost the anger. I didn't want to be pals but I didn't leap upon him and push him through a window, either.

hopefulkate, AP is a poor, hateful, creature much like Gollum in The Lord of the Rings. She is what she is and you won't change her and she is unlikely to change herself. Let her go. Rather, let yourself forgive yourself enough to let her go. It is okay to do that. You don't have to hate and invest emotion in her.

And if YouMeI can never, ever say the words that you need to hear, well, how close does he get? Does he understand even if he can't really verbalize? Would it help you to write down what you need to hear, give it to him to think about for a week and an IC visit, and then come to you and say them?

Fist bump }{ Did any of the above make any sense at all?

hopefulkate posted 9/19/2017 10:36 AM

Gently, hopefulkate, her power is ever only what you give her. And with the two words, "her power," you're giving her too much.

Agreed. Only, I don't exactly seem to do a good job of controlling this internally; but your point of vitcim mentality is certainly giving me a new way to look at this problem.

To me, anyway, a very pernicious phraseology develops in a BS. "I need <this> to heal," we say. We say it so meaningly and so meaningfully. We cry it to the heavens. We shout it at our spouses. It is the quintessence of hurt, a plaintive cry of, "What about _me_?!?"

More victim mentality. I am not sure how to deal with this exactly, given that I am currently rehashing some childhood stuff in a current environment. Meaning, I choose to take care of my mother and sister who are somewhat mentally challenged. I choose to do so as I value the reasons why you choose to help those unfortunate, and they are otherwise alone. However, it is not without its own set of FOO struggles that I am trying to untangle in my mind, while balancing my own family of five, and healing myself and supporting my MrKate. I think that some days, the victim mentality comes from a place of caregiver fatigue. Perhaps this is the time to recognize I have gone too long without self care?

Gently again, is <this> what we _need_ or is it just what we _want_? Wasn't it in Ecclesiastes, "vanity of vanities, what is vanity?"

Lol...I couldn't be more literal. Can you explain what this means? (F in poetry for sure!)

Stating, "I need <this> to heal," is the same as saying, "I will not heal without <this>." But, is that second a true statement?

Now, here we are at my favorite of topics - logic. So, I will twist this to say in this moment, I feel I do indeed need <this> to heal. And the second to read, I will heal without this of course, but R will likely not be part of it. So words implied for me are; I need this to STAY, not to HEAL. Thoughts?

What if your H can never, ever, get to the place where he can say "the words" to you? What if, tomorrow, he got a nasty head crack and simply loses parts of his past?

Gently, this is exactly what happened. Though instead of a physical jolt to the brain, it was an internal electric shock of sorts.

Would you leave? Are the words that important, really? Or is it all circumstances? If he truly had no recollection of what he did but came out of that accident oh-so-very committed to you would you say to him, "I cannot live with what went before and of which you have no recollection. I am gone."

This is my reality. However, I don't think it is my reality forever, and with all that I have read, there is no reason to think that my wants can not be met within this scope.

Or would you, in an act of grace and forgiveness to yourself, recognize that the past is simply that - the past - and go forward into a new future?

And if I can't....can I live with myself? It seems that I am in a rock and a hard place again. My desire to act justly and help those in need is very, very high. My pain to accept those things is also very, very high.

Is this a time thing? OR, is this simply a deal breaker. Am I a horrible person for not being able to handle this? OR, is THIS the lethal plane of flatness?

I have no intention of going anywhere during this 5 year time frame. And who knows, at year 5 if things are better, then that changes to year 7. And so on, and so on...

Right now, I am recognizing that I am not accepting of the past events - not fully - and not accepting some of the lack of progress I was seeing.

HOWEVER, since I first came back to vent about this, YouMeI has started journaling. That is such a powerful tool. I have more patience left, but I am also starkly aware that it is a finite value. So when my anxiety ramps up...I post post post!


Full honesty here - I now have come to pity xWGF and AP. They are what they are and I choose to let that not have too much power over my future.

That is great to hear! I assume I will be there one day in full. I have had many moments of that feeling - my insecurities and self hate/doubt allow me to give her power she doesn't deserve. Left side right side brain fights over here.

hopefulkate, AP is a poor, hateful, creature much like Gollum
Let her go. Rather, let yourself forgive yourself enough to let her go. It is okay to do that. You don't have to hate and invest emotion in her.

I suppose forgiving myself for staying is part of this, isn't it? I do so badly want justice (not always, just recently it has cropped back up), and I am certain it is related to my current life stresses and past FOO. Just need to work more on that basement stuff I think...

And if YouMeI can never, ever say the words that you need to hear, well, how close does he get? Does he understand even if he can't really verbalize? Would it help you to write down what you need to hear, give it to him to think about for a week and an IC visit, and then come to you and say them?

I think this is part of my problem. I read and process really quickly. It is just how I am wired. Once he confessed to the A, and then the day or so after to his abuse, it wasn't long before I was able to connect the two. I can remember sitting in our old house and asking him questions about the A, and then quietly putting this out there, "did the A feel at all like the abuse?"

He looked up at me with wide eyes and shouted (in a whisper, as we never yelled when the kids were home-nearly) "YES! OH MY GOD YES!" And then cried for a long, long time.

As time went on and I learned, I was the one explaining to him about the effect of abuse on the brain, how reenactments occur, WHY they occur, helping him to link his past to her actions/words/looks - including her house and the way it was kept.

It has been me leading the witness all along...and my brain wonders (even though there is no WAY that I am wrong here given he is truly ALL of the textbooks in every way so there is no wiggle room for doubt about it)....he has just been repeating what others have said.

He has yet to OWN what happened in a self narrative. He has yet to tell his story.

And not telling your story is the same as ignoring it, to an extent.

And ignoring it is how we got here in the first place.

So the big question, will I stay if he can't do this?

No. No I won't.

And I will hate myself for that too.

devotedman posted 9/19/2017 19:39 PM

First, I was quoting Ecclesiastes 1:2 and I got the words wrong, so here we have a quote from the old fashioned King James (I bolded the bit I quoted):

1The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities all is vanity.

3What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

5The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

7All the rivers run into the sea yet the sea is not full unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

8All things are full of labour man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

11There is no remembrance of former things neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

With Wisdom Comes Sorrow

12I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. 14I have seen all the works that are done under the sun and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. 15That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

16I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge. 17And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. 18For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

I'll let you stew on that and read up on the interpretations thereof. Basically, Ecclesiastes is a book about how nothing really matters and yet we do it anyway.

hopefulkate, your family of 5 and two more besides. No wonder you don't have time for you.

I'll tell you something that I had to get okay with a long time ago: I cannot do it all. No matter how hard I try I simply cannot. If I try for too long then I start spouting things like, "vanity of vanities, all is vanity." Only I spout it from the wrong angle with the wrong meaning.

hopefulkate, you need time for you. You are one of those wounded people (like your mother and sister) that you say that you need to help. hopefulkate, where is _your_ help?

And, three beers with dinner. That is the most coherence that I can muster for the evening.

think about trying to get some help. Also think about the fact that limitations are good, nay great, things. Sounds like you're pushing yours.

hopefulkate posted 9/20/2017 11:18 AM

While, admittedly, that hurt my head , i did see it for what it was intended.

I wrestled with this for some time myself, but have come to a different conclusion. I have more of a Buddhist mindset (term used lightly as I was raised Christian and know very little of
The actual religion.). However, I believe in energy, including God as energy. I believe we are all part of a single, and though our existence may be infinitesimal when compared to the grand scheme of time, it is not without value.

Our vibrations of thought carry us while we are here, and impact directly those around us -both human and other.

When we are happy and full of love, I feel the give of my life force out to others and the universe. When I feel sadness and dismay, it feels as if I am sucking the joy and life out of that same pool of existence.

A somewhat existential string theory of sorts.

This was after thinking for some time that we are all ants and nothing has meaning so why bother.

The sun could explode tomorrow and take us all out with it - but we will all sail through the universe, our energy part of the collective that will span time and space.

I hope to be a positive vibration when this time comes.

Unfortunately, there are times this feels impossible.

Nonsensical Rambling???

Yes, it may be useless and pointless to carry around anger. However, I have yet to figure out how to fully let go of the anchor., even though I 10000000000% agree (and that's not even a real number) that it is pointless and today and tomorrow are what matters.

The past, however, has my shoelace stuck in its escalator.

hopefulkate posted 9/20/2017 13:42 PM

DM - just out of therapy. IC is a fully integrated survivor.

She fully agreed with your first response to me.

She also knows mr Kate and myself, and was able to see what I was asking in words and in need were two different but similar things. My issue is directly related to my past, and my need for him to help, as you said, is up to me now.

So, acceptance of things that may not be possible. My next journey.

Thank you again for you insightful words.

devotedman posted 9/20/2017 14:06 PM

Glad to have provided an alternate viewpoint, hopefulkate.

It may not be possible. It may be. Mull that for a few hours and then put it away until tomorrow. Then, mull again a bit.

These things take time, from both sides. The BS to begin to emotionally separate a bit from the betrayal and the WS to do a similar-but-different thing.

I guess, in the end get mentally better and then you do you!

hopefulkate posted 9/20/2017 15:11 PM

Oh my goodness, so many posts of late. I'm hogging the board - feel free to post your own!

So, this has been a great up/down period. Hard, yes. But things not healed from are being illuminated. So many moving parts, and the conclusion is that I need to heal in part on my own, and this is the down side of being in this club - the survivor has a different set of rules, of wiring....so the BS will need to accept these terms if they stay. Interesting that yesterday I said no, and today I changed my mind. However, I am not changing my mind in what I want and need, I am changing the verbiage of it. Which, I can leave for another time, because this too may be my own battle.

For now, as YouMeI still actively dissociates, I had not held him to appropriate standards and expectations. He does such an exceptional job of "fitting in", that it is easy to forget some days.

The question I was posed today was; can I live with that?

Interesting - the question was extrapolated out so much further than my narrow scope of pain - that it did help me see much more clearly.

So, to end this discussion *I* started , my issue with the AP is mine to end. So I wrote her. (In my head) And am posting here: feel free to remind me of this later when I come crying from the closet.

*****this is me changing my mindset and saving it for later***

If she were to come to the door and tell me I was wrong, that my H was the instigator, that he spouted I love you’s, and talked poorly about me…This is my response.

Well, maybe he did. But since he has trouble remembering it all, has nightmares about you, and wants you dead as much, or perhaps more than me, it doesn’t really matter.

*I* remember. I remember the things you said, and the way you acted. I heard you tell me how competitive you are. I heard you tell me you can get guys to do whatever you wanted, and that you liked that about yourself. I remember the way you would talk to him, and touch him. (Interestingly others do to.). There is nothing you could say or do that would negate this -because I was there. You were talking *to* me.

I remember that feeling in my gut when we first met. I remember explicitly trying to warn ___ of you - but he wasn’t ___ anymore. I remember you DURING, and how you acted. I remember too vividly, unfortunately. But, since I do remember, I know the truth. So, you can tell yourself and whoever you find to listen to you, what *you* think happened.

As for me, and the professionals, we know what DID, reenactment and manic depression is. We know what it means. And we know what type of person my husband would be drawn to during the time.

Congratulations- you landed the role.

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