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Livinginmoments posted 9/12/2017 13:24 PM

Hello folks.
This will be first time I've openly spoken about the systematic emotional & ultimately physical infidelity I endured over a 4 year period from 2007 to 2011. I know this was quite some time ago. Seeing as how i was quite positive I had moved on and re-entered my life I recently realized my existence was basically in an emotional vacuum these last 6 years. I have not been productively processing any emotions.

Maybe this is due to having forgave my wife and kept my word to not throw any of what happened back in her face if we fight or argue. The last couple arguments I have completely derailed and lashed out telling her that maybe.. Just maybe at times I lack general empathy because she hollowed me out and there is nothing left.

Reflecting on my level of anger and that statement I came to the realization I've not been living long term these past 5 years. I've been hiding in moments that help suppress my pain. Now I understand I should talk to other people who are and have been where I'm at. This is not something you can process on your own.
Before I go into some history I will state that seeing a therapist is not an option in my situation. It will cause many more problems than would be addressed.

Warning: Some of this may get a little explicit however I'll only add what's absolutely necessary to give an accurate situational understanding.

So this is my second marriage. #1 was to a high school sweetheart. We were together 12 years married 7 and divorced due to her overt narcissism and hiding thousands of dollars in debt. We have a daughter and are civil.
My current wife is 10 years younger than I. We met via a local chatroom. We dated for a few months, which went very well so we decided to move in together as our living situations were less than optimal. We figured if it didn't work out we could always be room mates and part ways when we were in better financial shape. Well as destiny would have it we got along great and 18 months later were engaged.

Three months before we were to get married I discovered a disposable phone. She had contacted an ex, which turned out to be someone 10 years older than her, who had recently been divorced but had left her to resume a relationship with his former wife.
Needing to know the scope of her feelings for him I didn't confront her and monitored the phone, messenger and email conversations via methods I'll not discuss here. What I discovered was a nervous girl getting married who reached out to someone she had loved. He took advantage of that for explicit texts and an attempt to meet for sex.
I confronted them both. Gave her the option to exit our relationship. I explained I'd tell her parents what ever she wanted to smooth things over for. They really like me and would have been furious. Given the opportunity to have an actual relationship with her.. The EX declined dumping her a second time. At this point I was out. In the process of moving out she and her parents literally begged me to reconsider. As nothing physical happened I Reluctantly I agreed to stay. The flags were up however.

Fast forward almost 3 years and add an 18 month old child to the marriage. Around November of 09 I began to notice her behavior change. We began to have sex more often. More notably was her attentiveness in keeping her phone close at all times and always logging out of messenger apps and social media on her computer. I again began to survival her communications and after a couple weeks was nothing less than horrified. She had been engaged in explicit video chat with multiple people watching and had chosen 3 favorite users and was leading them on they were the only ones she was chatting with in the side. Two of which she had met in person, separately and had sexual contact with. I would later find out that the rules had been establish there would be no intercourse, which as any rational adult knows is of little comfort.
Now I will pause for a second here. The whole web show/chat thing was something her and I used to do for fun. There was an understanding it was an activity we did together. Now she had told me after out first child she was uninterested in that any more.
So clearly that was a premature decision and on top of that she went solo and let things get out of hand endangering both me and our child via unprotected sexual contact.
This was obviously devastating. I was almost equally upset with her not communicating and hiding things. I am very open and not a jealous person. I would do just about anything if it turned her on. The situation was touch and go for more than a few days. I was seriously compromised emotionally.

I wanted to salvage the relationship and fell into self destructive behavior to do so. We would fight and have sex.. Extremely carnal lust filled animistic sex. She convinced me it would be even more hot if we went public on video chat again. I agreed and she did not disappoint...For my part during sex I didn't hurt anymore. Given the fact we were going at it 6 or 7 nights a week from the time our son when to sleep.. until we both passed out from exhaustion.
There were rules we agreed on which attempted to make what was going on some sort of legitimate way of fixing our problems. In hindsight it was all BS. She was still getting her way playing with her boy toys the only difference was now... I was pulling the strings as so to speak.
As long as I focused on the sex and her level of arousal during I was able to ignore my pain. The days at work in the office were agonizing. The constant need to make sure noting was going on at home... The self loathing and regret were horrific. However when I walked thought that door evenings it would all vanish due to our little erotic fantasy world.
Now during this I also discovered she had been bouncing things off her EX.. yes that one.. For advice. He for the most part was smart about what he said and while they did reminisce a couple times nothing came of it. I did call her out on it months later when I explained how I had discovered an watched everything. (yes I watched and read EVERYTHING in horrifying detail) I already knew they were not talking anymore and I believe they probably never will again.

Moving on. So the sexscapades lasted almost 4 months. She gradually cooled off and was no longer interested in all the attention. As this progressed and she wanted sex less and less my copping mechanism was taken away from me. As sex became a once every week.. to every other week and longer the fights began. I fought her for almost a year before giving up and just dealing. I basically had nothing left at this point.
By this time a year had passed we had another child. For the next couple years I kept a close eye on her. She kept her word everything was over. +5 years I do not keep as close an eye on her as I used to and I believe I don't have to maintain a constant watch now. This is comforting however it nowhere near addresses the fact I have really never dealt with any of this.
I still fee a ton of resentment, anger betrayal. When I recently brought it up I was the one accused of opening up the past, which is fitting since I seem to be stuck in it.
So thats the quick and dirty(literally)history of why I am in the emotional situation I find myself in today.
I apologize for typos and grammar.
I just needed to get this off my chest and maybe bounce it off folks who have been there.
Thanks for reading.

5454real posted 9/12/2017 16:50 PM

Welcome to the best club you never wanted to join. Glad you made it, sorry you had to.
First piece of advice is to read the healing library. Yep, all of it. Based on what you've revealed to us, you'll need it. I have a feeling you will identify with Joseph's letter which you will find in the articles section. Just a hunch though.
Second, even though it's years later, I want you to consider doing a *modified* 180. (Healing library, B'S FAQ #11). Take some you time. DETACH from the marriage for a while to focus on you and your needs. Detach in both the conventional sense and
You need the emotional distance.

I know you told us counseling wasn't an option. To be brutally honest, most people having undergone that level of trauma would absolutely need it. This is a hard row to hoe without it. No chances of getting out of the area to get it?
Just a few minor things to get you started. Again, welcome.


Hawke posted 9/12/2017 16:50 PM

Hi, Livingin. I ended up separating from my ex, so I don't know what healthy reconciliation looks like. It does sound like your wife and you never really dealt with the damage that your wife's betrayal did to you.

4kids posted 9/12/2017 18:20 PM

Im so sorry you are here and hurting.

If I may ask you, why will you not consider councilling?


Notthevictem posted 9/12/2017 19:21 PM

Dude, it sounds like you've bottled up a metric shitton of concentrated emotions, and tried to cover the pressurized container up with a doily.

So, first things first, what are you doing to take care of yourself? I'm not talking the look in the mirror self-love, I'm talking the situational depression action items that will allow those emotions a positive outlet / coping mechanism.

You've got children, so whether they're old enough to fully grasp what's occurring or not, it's times like these you're responsible for setting the example of how to deal with shit when it hits the fan. And it sounds like it's been a steady ever increasing stream of shit that keeps hitting the fan by the sound of it.

So... my list (which is NOT all inclusive) includes:
Working out
Avoiding alcohol/drugs
Individual counseling
Posting here
Talking with friends/family
and (temporarily) antidepressants

Other folks have other outlets, but the important thing is that if you don't already have those things in place, that's a very good spot to start at--in my opinion.

Can you tell me a little more about what of those things you are doing or are planning on doing first, and then we talk more about your situation?

Livinginmoments posted 9/12/2017 22:02 PM

Thank you all four your remarks and advice.
At this point counseling would be an admission to my wife I've not been honest about letting all this go as I have said and moved on. This would destabilize our home life and affect our children.
To address concerns posted about how I cope.
I have never needed to lean on alcohol or drugs. I am very lucky in that respect. I did change my adhd meds as Adderall seemed to fuel bouts of almost uncontrollable rage that if unchecked could have resulted in tragedy. I now take Vyvanse which is much better and actually works as it should with few issues.

My coping mechanism having been taken from me was transfered to online gaming, which offers anew escape complete with relationships with in a very structured organization of hundreds of folks. Some of which are escaping life just as I am.
With all addictions it creates it's own set of problems.

Now what I didn't mention is that until a year ago the wife and I worked appossing shifts. We only really slept in the same bed and talked on the phone and messaged during the week. Weekends always flew by. Now that she is home every night we have been reconnecting this past year. This has been both good but has affected me in ways I do not seem to be handling the best.
It has pointed out behavior I was unaware of. Like my lack of patience with the children and at times lack of being able to empathize with them.
Now that is also rooted in a horrible childhood. Imagine the old I had it worse in my day argument only I spent a majority of the time being passed around to family after stays in battered women's shelters or just being homeless. So yeah I don't care if the WiFi sucks or your 600 dollar iPad is slow.. Get over it and yourself.

Anyway I'm getting side tracked. As far as taking care of myself I used to be a gym rat. We have both put on about 50 pounds after this. I would like to get back into it however that would pull me out of routine and I seem to depend on things being as they are.
I am really at a loss in regard to finding a way out of this abyss of resentment that's dredging up conflict the more I reconnect with her. How does a thought process of.. I hate you for making me love you again remotely make any sense..?
Because that's what it feels like.
I know depression was addressed. Here is the thing. I am generally happy with my children my career.. Even with many aspects of what our marriage had become. The problem is its all built on this underlying cancer, which seems to have taken root in who and what I am now. I can't think of any other way to describe it.
Anyway it's getting late. I'll sleep on this and reflect in the AM.

Thanks again folks. This venue feels right so far.

Tren0R201 posted 9/13/2017 01:08 AM

Stop having kids.

1survivor posted 9/13/2017 05:18 AM

Living, sorry that you find yourself here. I would highly recommend you visit the healing room . There is some great information there.

That being said, I will say with certainty that rugsweeping wont fix anything. As you can see you have built up anger and resentment that is just building up inside you . This is not good for anybody. I know you seem opposed to counseling, but I would reconsider it as a way to help you heal. You have been traumatized by your wife . What has she done to become safe and help you heal. It sounds like not much. It sounds like the coping mechanizms she had in the chatroom stuff continued after you met, only with other people. Your wife is a very broken person to need that and to have such poor boundries with those of the opposite sex.

I totally relate you are in alot of pain . Betrayal is the swiftest kick in the groin you can get and it was inflicted by someone that supposedly loves you . Until you and your wife come to a place that allows you both to deal with this honestly , its just going to fester and get bigger. Have you talked openly and honestly to her about this ? That has to be the first step. Videochatting is not going to heal your marriage . Reconcilling is extremely hard work, especially for the Wayward. And yes , dont have any more kids with this woman.

Notthevictem posted 9/13/2017 05:27 AM

So what if you started a small workout routine, like 20 crunches when you wake up. Not something that'll mess up any other routine or take more than a minute?

Also, journaling really helped me. Is that something you could do for 10 mins and incorporate into your routine?

Wool94 posted 9/13/2017 05:30 AM

I'm sorry you are here.

Be honest with your wife and be honest with yourself. Do you and your wife communicate regularly? I wouldn't say you've been lying, what you've been doing is called rugsweeping.

Are you able to have difficult conversations with your wife? One thing about affairs, if they aren't dealt with properly, they can just turn you into a bitter old man.

You mentioned there was never any intercourse. Are you sure?

Are you positive that both children are yours.

What has she done to make you feel safe? Can you bring your concerns up at any time? If you do, does she get defensive?

Livinginmoments posted 9/13/2017 07:18 AM

Good morning folks.
I am overwhelmed by the responses and advice offered.
Thank you all again.
To address questions posted since my last post and also clear up time lines 1survivor we discontinued the video chat sexcapades back in the spring of 2010. Sex in general settled into a once or twice a month and has been that way for the last 7 years. Basically just enough to keep the arguments at bay. I still have some issues relating from being Dependant on that behavior. I do try and work on it. it's an ongoing process.

Notthevictem you are 100% correct. I can take a half our a day to work out gym or not and there is no excuse for not doing so. I'll get on it. I understand being in better shape will go a long way. Thanks for keeping on the subject.

Yes I am 100% sure my children are mine. There is no mistaking or blaming these two on anyone else. Just like my first with my first wife they are miniature me clones lol.
We do have pretty open communication most respects. Unfortunately when it comes to what happened between us back then brining anything up is considered throwing it in her face and sabotaging our current situation, which admittedly is only working well for her all of the time and me some of the time it seems.
As to me knowing exactly what happened my situation is probably unique in that I was able to control and intercept every means of communication in and out of every device she used. I am also confident she didn't make the mistake of buying a disposable phone like the first time do to the way she spoke to these people on the devices I captured. Again I can not go into detail how I did this for obvious legal reasons.
I will offer anyone thinking of really getting onto and dissecting someones life as I did... Don't it's not worth it. You may think knowing every sorted lurid detail..every word said and every action taken will bring you closure. No it dose not. What people say when they think you will never read or hear it can be nothing short of devastating. Especially when they are trying to impress someone and justify their behavior and quell guilt by exaggerating and fabricating things in order to do so. It took me years to understand and differentiate the context of the content I collected. ( Now I have an admission to make here. I mentioned not being a generally jealous person and also being open to doing a lot of things sexually that were a turn on for both of us regardless of what it was. Well that mindset made some of the content I collected a big turn on, which caused really confusing conflicting feelings that further complicate things... Moving on) The only redeeming aspect of what I did was being able to read the conversations over a long period of time and eventually more objectively. Looking back some time later after the initial anger I realized she got in over her head and it was to late to bring me in on what she was doing, which in a way she got to do anyway... She just wanted to get caught so it would all be over one way or another.
As to what she has done to make me feel safe? The last 6+ years she has kept her word. one understanding we have is that if anything like this were to happen again all of this is over. there will be not bargaining, no conditions promises nothing.. I am gone. Nothing in her behavior has prompted me at any point to rip her life apart again. believe me I know the signs all to well. Don't get me wrong though. I do and will always remain vigilant for the slightest thing to be off.

Again thanks folks.

Used2bhappy10 posted 9/13/2017 08:12 AM

If you don't get IC and both MC, your marriage is certainly doomed to fail.

It is not a sign of weakness, it is not a sign of not wanting to work on your marriage today and going forward.

Being able to dissect, discover, diagnose,and create a plan moving forward is what is one of the very few things you can do for ͏y͏o͏u's elf, your wife, and your children.

annb posted 9/13/2017 09:07 AM

You have to understand that infidelity causes trauma.

I am 12 years out and I STILL bring it up.

The first couple of years, maybe even the first few years, the A was discussed

Basically you've swept this nuclear bomb under the rug, and your wife is one happy camper not having to deal with the shitstorm following an affair.

Your marriage will not survive IMO.

You need counseling. Non-negotiable. Your wife might get angry, well boo hoo.

Livinginmoments posted 9/13/2017 09:36 AM

Thank you Used2 and Annb.
Seeing as how the general consensus is I will be doing myself a great service by seeking professional help I'm going to begin the process.
Annb what you said about her not having to deal with a shitstorm is Interesting. I mean on D-Day when I agreed not to not immediately leave and attempt to stay she endured a shitstorm. In the following weeks and days despite her extremely effective way of distracting me she still had to endure me melting down and losing my shit on a pretty regular basis. Even the buddy she confided in told her she was going to have to eat a lot of crap staying in this marriage.
Now looking back.. You have a good point. I mean what did she really have to deal with that was so bad? I mean she got caught..screamed at and given an ultimatum. She still got her way and had fun for 3 more months. So she had to deal with me being unstable.. Big whoop I mean she obviously knew how to condition and then handle me. To be perfectly honest it's pretty infuriating, which is not a very productive feeling for me at the moment. Especially having no way to cope with this at the moment seeing as she thew a fit about my gaming time and now I have to sit around nights after the kids are in bed with zero distractions and being resentful I can't even game now.
At least I can vent here a little.
Thanks :)

1survivor posted 9/13/2017 09:40 AM

I agree ic and mc need to take place for you to heal and for your ww to know why she thought it was ok. Until that happens , she can never be a truly safe partner. Most of us got the "it will never happen again" talk, but unless they get the root of the problem the likelihood of it happening again is great.

Please do some reading in the healing room. Continue posting, this is a great place where there is so much collective wisdom based on such a wide range of situations. We have all been in your shoes. Some here have also been in your wife's shoes. As a BS I know the hard work it takes to truly reconcile. Same with the former waywards. R is not for sissies. To truly make it work there is a lot of heavy lifting to be done. Even then there is no guarantee.

annb posted 9/13/2017 12:57 PM

BTW, even though you are years out, there's a great book by Linda MacDonald called How to Help your Spouse Heal from an Affair. Your wife could probably read it in a couple of hours. Concise, and to the point.

Also No More Mr. Nice Guy. (forgot the author)

And....Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Probably the best book out there on the destruction an A has on the marriage.

Notthevictem posted 9/14/2017 15:46 PM

Living, this is just a thought I had. It might help or hurt, so take it as a tentative suggestion, but there are a lot of folks here who do find this site shortly after the day they discover (dday), and while you haven't fully dealt with the aftermath, I'm sure that you have learned several things that could be helpful to those who just found out.

For me, I find that sometimes in helping others through this I am able to see my situation in a new light that helps me.

There's also a couple of threads in the I Can Relate forum, one for Betrayed Husband's and one called something like Time line for respect for ww that you might find a hidden nugget of knowledge in looking at.

Of course I don't want you to backtrack unless it's helpful so those are just some other thoughts.

Livinginmoments posted 9/15/2017 13:20 PM

Thanks Nott
I have read some of the posts in just found out. There is advice I have to offer due to my lengthy experience that can probably help people. I'll give it a shot.
I need to be careful. I have no business advising people hoe to process grief. I'll stick to advice in regard to protecting your self and thinking your actions though during anger. Restraint and patience is something I have experience with in spades.

Notthevictem posted 9/15/2017 16:09 PM

Glad you're thinking about it. Let me know if there's more I can do to help you.

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