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Hearing the truth

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husband999 posted 10/20/2017 01:52 AM

So my wife became inebriated tonight and started telling me what I presume is how she really feels. She hates me. She will never forgive me. She says she is stuck with me because of the kids otherwise she would be gone. I am a horrible husband and father. I don't deserve her or the kids. She wished that I had chosen the OW so that she could have just been done. She will never trust me in our marriage or with our kids. She will make sure that me and OW burn. I think that those were the broad strokes highlights. I am at a loss. She said all of this with her back turned crying into a pillow. I barely said anything. I didn't know how to respond to much of what she said. Some of what she said are fair statements, would probably agree with some of it. And I realiZe that some of the other stuff is coming from a place of immense anger and pain. But if this is how she truly feels I am not sure how to respond. I don't know what to say. And I have no idea where that leaves us at this point. I feel very confused and lost. Any advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Jesusismyanchor posted 10/20/2017 02:18 AM

Her pain and anger are real. She is hurt and traumatized. Listen to her pain. Show her you care.keep showing her you care. Tell her you are not just staying for the kids but want her if that is true. She doesn't trust you likely yet. She may be grieving. She could have PTSD. You may want to tesd about that. Drinking does not help! Let her know that there is nothing that will push you away. You will not leave her again (that includes emotionally) . Please try your best to be empathetic

This is a moment she is in. It may only be a moment. You will have to see how she feels later. You may be a big part of that. But yes, the kids may be a part of the reason she is trying. It may not be all of it though. I have said similar things to my H for sure. I have pretty much said the exact the exact SMS shines about OW.

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 2:21 AM, October 20th (Friday)]

nekonamida posted 10/20/2017 03:32 AM

Husband, talk to her when she's sober. Ask her if it was just the pain talking or if you needed to come up with a way to separate and give her some space even if it is done in house. If the A is a deal breaker or she needs space from you to heal right now, it is essential that you give it to her. Forcing her to give you more than she is willing to will only serve to remind her how selfish you can be.

For posters who say that separation is not recommended for R - it's not recommended when the WS wants it but it is necessary and can be helpful for R when the BS needs it.

Sumofan posted 10/20/2017 03:47 AM

Respond with the truth. Let her know how you feel just like you wrote here. In broad strokes, you

1. hear her pain
2. are sorry to be the cause of her pain
3. are there for her
4. will do what she needs right now to help her through this
5. ask her what would help her through this AND then do the work to get yourself to the point of being able to help her through this! Go find an IC, pastor,same sex mentor who has been through this and able to guide you along.

Ok for for disclosure, my H had to not only listen to my pain, hold me through it ( though I pushed him away while he was doing it) and work through his own shit while I rode the rollercoaster of wanting him close, to be the man I thought he was, loved him amped wanted to throat-punch him all in the same breath. This was what life was like in the first year. He had to consistently show me because when he wasn’t struck dumb with shame, I wouldn’t believe a single word coming out of his mouth. I wanted to but I couldn’t.

My priority for staying at the time was also to keep a stable base for kids to keep family intact while I was healing. It was only when I healed enough to see the work H was doing that I didn’t answer “so what?” To his declaration “ But I am here.”

It was my slow realisation that with all the shit I was dishing out to him in my pain he was indeed “there” and that he too didn’t need to be if he so chose that I started to have some hope in us again.

Please do the “work” that is talked about here. The introspection and behavioural changes that come from really looking and owning what you did, the devastation it caused and taking steps never to be that person who could or would do that again.

I wish you both healing peace and strength.

psychmom posted 10/20/2017 07:07 AM

I would not assume all she said is the truth of her feelings toward you. She's in pain. She is hurt and lashing out because you have emotionally wounded her. She is self-protective as well as trying to signal to you her emotional needs to reconnect to you....I lashed out to hurt and punish my fWH as well as to try to get him to see how deeply I was hurting. We need to see the forest from the trees. Beneath it all is fear of loss and abandonment and a primal fear of loss of love and emotional connection.

The book "Hold me tight" lays this out and offers ways for couples to work together to heal these very primal emotional wounds. I also needed to stop drinking early in our,R as it only made things worse, never better.

[This message edited by psychmom at 7:10 AM, October 20th (Friday)]

ChamomileTea posted 10/20/2017 07:36 AM

Which truth?

Cheaters are TWO people. There's the one who you thought you knew, the one who would never hurt you. Then, there's the one who's fully CAPABLE of doing exactly that, the one who could put his hands, mouth, genitals, and attention onto someone else while forgetting that you even exist.

So, who does she hate?

It takes time and consistency to prove which one of those guys you really are. She's already SEEN "that guy". He's in there somewhere. Where did he go? Will he reappear at some point? How is she supposed to just trust that he's gone? He wasn't supposed to be you... but she saw him with her own two eyes. It's up to you to prove to her that you've dealt with him and he's not coming back.

EmbraceTheChange posted 10/20/2017 08:03 AM

Husband999, I'm sure it must be very hard for you to hear all this, as much as it is very hard for your wife. You put her (and so did my husband) in a position where you hate the man you love.

Please, when she cries, hold her. Crying next to your spouse and not being held makes you feel utterly ALONE. And talk to her. Tell her the OW is a piece of s***t, that you are on your wife's side, that she never deserved to be in a position like this.

You also need to see that your wife is SHARING her pain with you. If you're out of a relationship, you don't share your pain. What she's doing is still sharing, with her husband, how she feels. So the love is still there, just obscured with all this pain. But it's still there.

Eta: and let her be creative with how she would "deal" with the OW in real life. It's mostly a way to rebalance the injustice of the situation, and very cathartic. Your wife feels very weak right now - you having an affair, her not seeing it", her crying because it hurts so much. So the more she feels she can do really bad shit, the more stronger she will feel. I used to say that as soon as the OW pops dead I will cover her grave with chicken shit. And sending her an email on dday implying that I will beat the shit out of her made me feel not like a total doormat. Because I really really did feel like one.

baggage posted 10/20/2017 08:53 AM

Yes she probably hates you; but the you that had the affair. The you that treated her with so little worth.

There were days I HATED my WH and other times I loved him as dearly as ever.

After alcohol I always treated my WH the same as this. On one occasion I asked for a divorce.

All I needed was for him to tell me he felt my pain, I know he couldn't fully but I needed him to hold me, express his remorse.

I suffered a lot with depression and PTSD. I needed to stop the drinking and get professional help. Help support your wife if she needs this too.

The best advice I can give is to ask HER what SHE needs. Sometimes it was a "go back in time", sometimes a 'I don't know' but ask anyway. Whatever she needs you HAVE to be prepared to do it.

It's a long hard road. I wish you the best.

TX1995 posted 10/20/2017 09:39 AM

She's mad. She's hurt.

When I drink too much I do the EXACT same thing to my WH. He does not like it when I have more than one drink now. I say mean and biting things just to hurt him. It's when I tell him my thoughts, but they are just that. Not necessarily my absolute truths, definitely not my hopes for our future.

In the past 6 months, we've had maybe 6 or so of these nights. He's learned that he just needs to listen, never defend himself, and offer to hold me. That's all he can do. I cry, he holds me. The next day I'm usually still in a bad place, but by day 3 it tends to get better and then we can talk rationally.

It took my WH a while to get this: there is also a kernel of truth to everything she says. Were you a crappy husband and father for doing this? Yes. Does she wish she didn't have to feel this pain? Yes. She imagines that if you just disappeared from her life that this pain would magically go away because it hurts THAT bad. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you and wants a divorce, it means that her marriage as she knew it is OVER and you did that without even consulting her first. Will she trust you like she did? Nope. And that's a hard pill to swallow. (I HATE that I don't trust my WH because it takes a larger toll on me this way.) Does she hate the OW? Yes. Because it's easier much of the time to hate this other person than the person you took vows with - and she really should be blaming solely YOU. (Though I will admit that I have violent thoughts about my WH's AP every now and then at 6 months post DDay, much of my anger is focused on his betrayal - it takes 2 to Tango.)

Just let her know that you heard her, you understand, you are so sorry for hurting her, that you love her. Tell her that you understand she needs to vent. Is she in IC or journaling? Those are both great ways to vent without yelling at your cheating spouse. They might help her.

Please above else have patience. My WH didn't believe me when I gave him the 2-5 year time frame. He didn't even absorb it when he read the books Not Just Friends and How to Help a Spouse. He only believed it when it came from his IC's mouth - "It's ONLY been 6 months." This shitstorm you rained down will take a LOT of time to heal and your marriage will NEVER be the same. Be patient and apologize and ask her how you can help.

I hope today is better.

dazed77 posted 10/20/2017 10:05 AM

husband - I didn't read your story but assuming this betrayal is still fresh, I think this is pretty normal. Now if she was saying/doing this 12-18 months out or longer, maybe you have a little more reason for concern. I think you have been given excellent advice from the other posters. Sumoffan had some excellent points. I am 6 months post D-Day and I have been so focused on me, I have been unable to really focus on the work my WH was doing. Now I can reflect and really see all the things he is doing/saying that tell me that we are on the right path. It does give me hope that R will work.

Just be consistent in words and actions. You can always be assured that regardless of what she shares with you, a heartfelt apology for the pain she is experiencing followed by questioning how you can make it better will always be helpful. I would recommend apologizing and affirming her pain, even when she is not actively showing it. I can guarantee you, the pain, betrayal, and sadness is eating her alive. You don't need to always wait for it to bubble over to offer her support. Learn her love languages (book by Chapman on The Five Love Languages). Is it quality time, acts of services, physical touch, words of affirmation, etc? Once you start to understand these things better, combine them with a lack of defensiveness and frequent apologies and I think eventually her anger will subside.

Chamomile Tea - Wow. I don't want to t/j, but I typed this over in my phone and shared it with my WH.

Iwantmyglasses posted 10/20/2017 10:30 AM

I did the same thing.

It would help me when he would say, you are right. I was wrong. When he would expand on what I said. He didn't shut down. He let me get it out. I would cry into my pillow.

moralhighground posted 10/20/2017 11:04 AM

I agree with basically all of the above posters and the only thing I would add is that when I have those Big Anger Days they usually come after a long string of days where I didn't share any of my feelings or talk about important things.

Make sure you're asking her how she's doing when you have time to really listen. Try to do it every day if you can, and if she gives you ideas of how you can help her, just do your best to implement them as soon as possible.

Maybe there is some sort of hobby or activity that you can promote to her, something that will give her an outlet, like a standing date with friends or something creative or energetic that she wants to try? I feel like it's extra hard to do anything I enjoy and it doesn't help my mood, at all. Also if it helps, I was super dehydrated one day when WH and I went for dinner, I downed my ONE drink and got instantly stupid. I spent a big portion of dinner crying in the bathroom about how sad I felt for the AP and her sad sad life. Alcohol does not equal true feelings. It just maximizes whatever feelings you were able to keep in the background up until then.

H0nest posted 10/20/2017 11:32 AM

999, my BW has said those exact words to me many many many times, and she will again. We no longer keep alcohol in our house.

You are right, that these words are coming from a place of immense anger and pain, and you are also correct that these are her true feelings at that time. I don’t know how far out you guy are, but we’re two years and have decided R, so I know that these are not her feelings all the time.

As others have said, you need to listen to all of this, to understand the depth of her anger and pain, to absorb it all, and really sit in it. She feels this way because of what you did, and you need to recognize that. This isn’t a time for you to get defensive, angry, or feel any self pity. Just listen and pay attention to her feelings. That’s the hard part. After my wife triggers like this, she feels better having shared her feelings, but I’m a utterly destroyed and a complete mess for days after. Its hard work getting back up, but that’s the work where the real change in yourself comes from.

Hopefully you are working to fix all that you broke. You need to stand up and keep moving forward. Express your feelings to her, let her know how you feel about what she was saying, not in the loathing self-pitying way because she will hate you for that, but look deep and express you remorse, how you would feel if she left with the kids, and what you are doing to make it better.

I’ve been in this place so many times, I understand how it feels.

BlackHeartBroken posted 10/20/2017 11:46 AM

I said similar, graphic and vile things to my WH about our situation and OW... I said them while I was drinking, when I was taking pills to help me sleep. I did not mean any of it. But I was (still am) very angry, very hurt, and very sad. It feels like the earth has crumbled beneath your feet when you find out your spouse has been having an A.

I know exactly where she is. I was there, and I'm sure so were a lot of others. I still have moments where I say things like that, but nearly as often, or as harsh. I still don't mean it. I think I was just saying anything to WH to make him feel like crap, and get my rage out.

Are you or she in IC? MC at all? I just went to MC this week for the first time since the week I found out. It was hard, and I'm still not sure I'm ready yet. We made an appt for a month from now...

This is a terrible place to be. Try to be patient and strong, assure her your sorry, you love her, you see what you've caused and that you're working to be the H she deserves, and you will not stop, that you will take her angry words because they are deserved. Try to help her if she lets you, in whatever way she feels comfortable. Be the best you you have ever been, and show her forever, that you will be working to put back together all that you've broken.

Root posted 10/20/2017 11:57 AM

My BH started drinking a lot too. Said a lot of mean things. After a while I learned to agree with him. He was stuck with me because of the kids. I was a horrible wife and mother. I didn't deserve him. He wishes the OM a horrible death. All factual statements and I learned not to run from them. I did this and I had to own it.

whodidimarry posted 10/20/2017 12:02 PM

Oh, I've definitely been there and I can empathize with your wife. I know I'll never trust my WH ever again and if we didn't have kids, I'd be long gone. In my case though, my WH is truly remorseful, and he is committed to reconciliation. We love each other;we are good partners, parents, lovers and friends. So I stay, for now. I don't think that I'll ever rule out leaving.

So, where are you? Do you love your wife? How much do you want to reconcile? Because the work is HARD and it will take years. If you are wavering at all, you should give up. If you are committed, then you need to reassure her that you aren't giving up. You need to tell her and show her in your actions. You're at the beginning of a long and difficult journey.

Brokenbeyondrepair posted 10/20/2017 12:17 PM

I agree. Please listen to her, hold her, be patient. These are things no one should have to tell you. You have no idea the pain you have caused her and your family. You cant know until you have been cheated on and betrayed.
I have said all of that to my WH and did (do) mean most of it. His decisions and selfishness destroyed my children's lives and mine.
I will never trust him the same ever!
I can have a good day and something will trigger the pain. My WH wont reassure me or hold me, silence is lonely. It would be nice to have him say something other than "I'm sorry" I would like him to just put his arms around me and let me cry and say what I am feeling. Not saying anything to me hurts so much more.
Please tell her what you just told all of us. It will mean a lot to her. Knowing that your here looking for answers will make her feel like you care enough to help her.

thatbpguy posted 10/20/2017 12:57 PM

I can't say as I would disagree with anything she said.

So what do you do?

One thing I don't recommend is being "Mr. Proactive" and try to be her dream loving husband. That can make matters worse.

What I do suggest is to work on yourself. Hard. Be the best father you can be. As to how to approach your wife, take it slow and easy. Remorse and regret are good and proper. However, turning yourself into a door mat is another thing altogether. Let her take any positive initiative and then respond in kind.

And here's something else...

Were it me, I would wait another couple of months and then simply ask her if she wants you to leave. Tell her you will take the best steps you can to see to it everything goes seamless with the kids... but you don't want to see her suffer on your account. If you have been really working hard on yourself... then I think she may relent a bit and ask you to stay.

baby steps, baby steps.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 2:29 PM, October 20th (Friday)]

Hurtstomycore posted 10/20/2017 14:15 PM

Ditto what everyone else has said. You betrayed her. She's normal. This is your new normal now. Listen to her, try to hold her even if she pushes you away, and make it about her pain...for which you are responsible,

hurthumiliated3 posted 10/21/2017 03:01 AM

I have said all this and worse to my WH. Your wife is probably flooding right now- she can't discern between cheating you and the you doing the work to be a better person. All she feels right now is pain and you are the one who gave it to her, just for funsies. She probably wishes the floor would swallow her because all she sees right now is a lifetime of feeling this pain, inflicted by the one person who promised to protect and treasure her. I get like this too. I don't feel like this right now so I understand how dramatic it sounds, but when it happens to me I feel like I go from treading water to drowning and time is the only thing that helps me come out of it. All you can do is be there and take it. And for the love of God don't give up just because you can't comfort her.

Why would you only agree with some of it? Do you not believe that she is staying just for the kids? I 100% am here because of my kids, because they deserve more than my WH has offered them all of these years and he's finally ready to give it to them. I am swallowing a shit sandwich so they don't have to. I could show them a loving relationship with another spouse someday, but I stay with my WH for now because he is fighting for me and they love him and need him.

I hope you are able to comfort your wife. I may be assuming too much, but in your post you sound like you feel a little rejected. Push that aside and keep being there for her.

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